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We often hear of the burninations of old tags with many questions, the Meta posts of topics where the questions were formerly on-topic, but are within SO's scope no more.

Here's a pretty good example: Can we rescue the information in this question somehow?

However, it's always been unclear to me how we deal with these questions. Unlike tag burninations, which seem to have a well defined procedure for removal, I'm unclear on how we handle questions which used to call Stack Overflow home.

Therefore, is it a good idea to develop some sort of method or procedure (just like we have in tag burninations) to give a rough outline on how to deal with questions that were formerly on-topic, but are now off-topic?

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  • One of the things we use is a historical lock. IIRC only SE employees can set them. Maybe elected moderators too. Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 18:41
  • @S.L.Barth Yep. Moderators have the capability too. I think I was maybe looking for the general outline of that. Placing a lock requires discussion on a single question, and not necessarily the list of questions that belong to the topic. Heck, I barely know how to phrase this question :/
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 18:43
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    @Zizouz212 Every time we have a case like the other one, we have some big debate, diamonds and staff don't weigh in, and it's totally ad-hoc. More structure from above here would be AWESOME.
    – durron597
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 19:32
  • @durron597 I totally agree. The way we are running things is literally a big mess here.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 19:38
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    @durron597 - Structure such as this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/124439/… ? That post came about after months of heated debate involving moderators, staff, and the community.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 19:54
  • Made a guide for solving this "problem" What can I do with valuable content that was deemed unfit for the site it was posted?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2016 at 23:59

2 Answers 2

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I don't think you're going to get a definitive, step-by-step checklist on how to handle closed but highly-voted questions, if only because the community has been divided on this since the start of the site. Also, each case can be very different.

A large debate was had years ago about whether or not to delete highly-voted but currently off-topic questions. Moderators were put in the middle of this, getting yelled at for either deleting or not deleting these questions. As a result, more of this was handed off to the community. I think it's healthy to have open debates on whether or not a specific question belongs on the site.

My personal opinion is that questions which have been demonstrated to be useful (via votes, great answers, etc.) but are no longer a good fit for the site should be closed but not deleted. The purpose of Stack Overflow is to make the Internet a better place, and I do not believe that deleting highly-voted or otherwise useful content is in service of that goal. Sometimes, I feel that people get too caught up in a strict interpretation of the site's rules and lose sight of the forest for the trees.

But that's just my opinion. I tend to not overrule the desires of the community, and I rely on the process described in the previously-mentioned post. If sufficient people feel that a closed, highly-voted question should be deleted, their votes carry weight. Likewise, people can argue for undeletion of these posts if they feel strongly enough about it. Again, debates around these questions where both sides make their case can be healthy.

Where we step in to apply locks are the cases where people can't stop arguing and a post goes through multiple delete / undelete cycles. In those cases, we tend to either delete something for good or apply a historical lock. Historical locks are rare, and tend to only be used for contentious posts like this. I've only applied a handful of them in my time here.

When I was a normal user, here's how I'd approach a closed and upvoted question to determine if it needed to be deleted. First, if there were no answers and the question itself couldn't be rewritten to be on topic, there shouldn't be a problem with casting a delete vote. If there were answers, are they completely outdated or wrong and unlikely to be updated? That could also justify a delete vote. If there was any lasting value at all in the answers, I would not vote to delete.

However, I know that other moderators and members of the community don't share my opinions about this. This is why we have Meta to hash these things out.

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  • I'll also use this space to say that I've been in strong agreement with some of Cody Gray's recent comments on these kinds of questions: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326951/…
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 20:45
  • Why do we need "debates" when the solution is at hand of most of us?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 20:47
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    Hmm yeah, I was pretty sure the viewpoint I've been defending was the popular consensus that emerged the last time we had this discussion. The same thing you say here: "questions which have been demonstrated to be useful ... but are no longer a good fit for the site should be closed but not deleted." I am quite surprised and extremely disappointed that we are having this debate again. I cannot for the life of me understand what motivates people to defend the deletion of useful content. On contentious posts, deletion should be a last-resort because it makes the question practically invisible.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 6:15
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Therefore, is it a good idea on developing some sort of method or procedure (just like we have in tag burninations) to give a rough outline over how to deal with questions that were formerly on-topic, but are now off-topic?

I'm not sure how many times we are going to discuss this... what you are worried about is content, right? You know you can simply copy the content from SE, paste it somewhere else and put attribution and be done with it? So, Just Do It™. There's nothing stopping anyone from copying any piece of text from the site and reposting it somewhere else with correct attribution. There's no need to introduce yet-another-process-that-makes-everyone-bitter for something that just works.

I'm seriously considering proposing a new article in the help page that reads "Some content was/is about to be deleted, what options do I have?", we get into discussions many times for something so simple and anyone with a little effort can do, yet waste so much time arguing with one and another.

Someone told me to look for examples, that doesn't take too much since I have two at hand:

  • Off topic question deleted on SO, reasked on UL. The title is different, the body is slightly different, but the answer are mostly the same.
  • List of free programming books hosted on GitHub was first on SO. The structure is different, the list is several times bigger, it has books in many languages (the not programming one), is extremely active, has a process to make sure links don't stale.

Both of them are completely free and available for anyone to reproduce.

I'm not sure why people has to be so focused that everything has to be on SO. There's no need to argue, since the solution is simple, fast and effective.

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  • I'm not actually worried about content, I'm worried about how decisions are made with respect to posts that suddenly find themselves off-topic. Right now, we are in a jumble of where people argue over what they feel is best, whether migrations should be made, tags burninated - there is nothing crystal clear here. Okay fine, I'm a little worried about content too. It just feels super odd that there is no community made process for this, something that we see so clearly in tag cleanups.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 20:04
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    @Zizouz212 unlike tag cleanups, almost no one can delete anything. Deleting is unbelievably hard. Almost anyone can remove a tag given enough time. Questions don't get deleted if key users don't act given infinite time. That's why there's no process to delete questions.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 20:09
  • I think I'm more comparing process. There is a defined process, even post notices on how to get a tag cleaned up or burninated. But with respect to questions, I don't know. Sorry, I can't communicate my thoughts well today :/
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Jun 30, 2016 at 20:11
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    "You know you can simply copy the content from SE, paste it somewhere else and put attribution and be done with it? So, Just Do It™." Braiam, where should I host that content? Would you like to provide me with a web server, storage space, and unlimited bandwidth so that I can create an archive of information that I think is useful that was formerly available on SO? Shall I just bill you directly? It's easy to say that the solution of moving the information elsewhere is "simple, fast, and effective", but it is not. A simpler, faster, and more effective solution is to leave it where it is.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 6:19
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    @CodyGray Wikipedia? Github? Other SE site? Wordpress/blogspot? Are you serious?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 11:04
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    @CodyGray Are you reading the examples? I'm one of them, and nobody has billed me yet.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 16:49
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    Uh, yeah, I'm serious. Wikipedia has standards, too, so it's kind of ironic/disingenuous that you would suggest dumping stuff you don't think meets SO's standards over on Wikipedia. GitHub only really makes sense for source code. I guess you could abuse it for posting whatever you want, but the format is not conducive to that, and it is very difficult for people to find the information. I don't really know anything about Wordpress, I guess it's some kind of a free hosting service. Most of those suck. I mean, I guess I could create a Tumblr, too, but now you're just grasping at straws.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 16:58
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    @CodyGray still, the content is available, no? That isn't what you are arguing all along? If wikipedia has standards, and they enforce them, why shouldn't we? And github isn't only for code, they host blogs too. SO own's blog is hosted there. You are simply refuting my argument on the grounds that all solution sucks? Well, it sucks too to have to babysit content that doesn't fit SO standards.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 17:26
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    I had no idea GitHub hosted blogs. I suspect a lot of people don't know that. But there are additional problems. First of all, why is the onus on me to set up a place, and then reproduce and republish the content? And why is that a better solution than just leaving the information where it is, available on Stack Overflow? Logically, this makes no sense. There are significant opportunity costs involved here. I have to take the time to go set up an alternative solution, copy the content over, give proper attribution,...all for what? Because a couple people got their rocks off by clicking delete?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 17:30
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    I'm sorry, this is another one of those "discussions" that just won't go anywhere. I've already said what I intended to say in the original comment. If you don't understand the problem, it is because you don't want to, or because you have such a completely different view of the world than I do that it will be impossible for me to explain to you my perspective. I don't want to take any more time trying to think about ways to explain myself clearly. Keep deleting stuff if you want to, I'll keep downvoting your simple-minded rants on Meta.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 17:31
  • @CodyGray why in the onus is up to anyone to accommodate you and only you? You are the one that doesn't want the content being lost, the site where it's currently hosted doesn't want that content, the obvious solution is to look for a site that is willing to host it. You seems to have taken your argument from the absurd and nonsensical to the utterly embarrassing. Stop embarrassing yourself continuing with that line of thinking. Accept that SO doesn't have to cater all information in the world, and people can just reject content they do not deem fit.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 17:39
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    Oops, clicked that damn "move to chat" link. Yeah, I mean, the central problem here is this claim that "the site where it's currently hosted doesn't want that content." That is just false. You, as a single member of this site, do not want that content hosted here. You might find a few others who agree with you. But there is absolutely no community consensus on that. If anything, if we took a poll of all Stack Overflow users, even if we limited it to everyone over 10k (oops, you couldn't vote), I think you'd find overwhelming support for not deleting useful content.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 17:42
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    @Braiam, you're telling someone who has contributed thousands of answers and untold amounts of time and effort to building the site that they're "embarrassing" themselves by thinking they can have an opinion on how Stack Overflow should be operated. That is... Extremely rude, and it's the second time this week I've seen you doing this in a meta discussion. I'm going to request that you take a week away from the site and think about what part of this community you want to be before you say anything to anyone else about what their role should be.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 19:44
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    No @shog. Inability to think outside the box is one of the characteristics I prefer people that call shots to not have. Tim itself is open to "until we have some place to put what useful information it contains" and I'm doing exactly that because I have interests in that idea to reach full development. Why should my proposal that at least one member of your team is exploring be absurdly abashed with an unreasonable argument and I sit down and take it at all? (cont.)
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 21:31
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    @Shog9 BTW, I'm saying that being so single tracked and unable to think outside of the box despite all their contributions is an embarrassment to themselves. I felt embarrassed having to argue my point until the point that I believed that I was talking with someone in the pre-'90, and wondered if the other side wasn't feeling the same way. At last, I'm using this post as test bed to apply it to all SE, so I'm not just thinking on the good of this site, SO, but the good and continuous working of SE, because it saddens me that something I believe should work fine, has many flaws due undiligence.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 21:34

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