57

There was a recent request to expand the roomba to clean up heavily downvoted answers, which was summarily declined.

To the answer summarizing why the request was declined, I posted this comment:

Is there ever a case where an answer can be considered useful if it is heavily downvoted? – Tiny Giant

To which the decliner replied:

Yes, @Tiny. I think Jean sums up this scenario wellShog9♦

To which I replied:

Well, while that is an interesting sentiment, I haven't actually seen an example that is worth keeping around. If anything the answers usually end us as "Don't do it this way:", in which case they are usually upvoted to draw attention to something you shouldn't do. I would love to see actual examples of heavily downvoted content that is worth keeping on the site, which couldn't possibly exist in the form of "Don't do it this way". – Tiny Giant

To which the decliner replied:

Well, post a discussion asking for it then @Tiny - Shog9

So here I am, posting a discussion asking for it then.

Does anyone have any good examples of heavily downvoted answers, that are worth keeping on the site, which couldn't possibly exist in the form of "Don't do it this way"?

25
  • 5
    Does meta count? Are meta posts subject to roomba deletion?
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:14
  • 1
    i wouldn't think meta posts count, since voting is a bit different here, but if the roomba follows all the same rules for meta, why not?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:15
  • 2
    Yeah, let's leave meta out of it for now, but that is an interesting point for the original request.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:16
  • 1
    Search results for is:a score:..-5 here Not sure if there's anything good here, but it's a start.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:17
  • 2
    If such answers exist, it's maybe better to post them as their own question ("Why shouldn't I do it like this?"), and post the insightful comments as answers and then trash the post. But I doubt there are that many.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:19
  • 10
    Stares blankly at the screen, wondering what the downvote could possibly mean in this situation
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:21
  • 2
    This accepted answer might count. It apparently works but uses a terrible anti-pattern.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:22
  • 9
    You don't want me to comment on my down vote, right? If you do: yabadabadoe!
    – rene
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:24
  • 4
    Well, the problem I have with your question is the effort you ask from us where you didn't prove yet that the outcome will be useful for what ever you want to achieve. It now reads more as a kind of therapy to keep us occupied.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:32
  • 12
    If someone really thinks that a downvoted answer should be kept, they ought to know better than subject it to meta-effect delete votes...
    – user3717023
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:55
  • 4
    @LiveForever: Well, and perhaps meta upvotes. And meta downvotes. And meta close votes. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:16
  • 7
    My downvote is because if the purpose of this is to somehow say "See? We won't hurt anything, we should just Roomba answers"; I disagree with doing that.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:57
  • 14
    @George no the purpose is to request examples of answers that would be hurt. I honestly and truly want to see if there are any real examples. But you seem to be taking my request to mean something completely different than what I've actually asked, and voting based on context instead of content.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 21:20
  • 2
    How heavily must it be downvoted to count ? Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 11:18
  • 3
    Downvoting answers costs points. I only do it in the most egregious examples, because as a < 10k user, I feel every point is worth something. If I were to know the Roomba would clean these up and give me my points back at some point, I'd be much more likely to use downvotes on answers.
    – Almo
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:24

8 Answers 8

12

I took the Android tag and there the 50 highest voted questions. Then I looked for strongly downvoted (score below -4) answers. There are exactly five. Most answers have score zero or higher.

Here they are with my estimation of what one could learn from them:

  • Saving Activity state on Android with a -12 answer

    That is actually an interesting downvoted answer. This is not recommended to do and one can definitely learn something from the reason why.

Further negative answers were less good in my opinion. So for the sake of the question I would only submit the answer above!

Only the first two cases are actually somewhat interesting. I'm unsure about deleting them automatically.

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  • I kind of wanted to keep each example as a separate answer here, otherwise voting and discussion gets confusing.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:46
  • @TinyGiant Sorry. Then please only discuss the first answer. I think it is the best of them. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:50
  • Could that answer not exist as it's own Q&A, "What is wrong with using configChanges", and an answer with all of the information why it is bad?
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:53
  • 1
    @TinyGiant Yes, I assume it could be its own (upvoted) question. But then you kind of lose the connection to this question. Will people pay attention to the new question while studying the old one? Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:58
  • 2
    Well, I mean are you going to have an answer like that on every question where configChanges is an option?
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 21:12
  • @TinyGiant For this question it might be a more likely (false) option than for others. Also there is nothing wrong per se with using configChanges if I'm not mistaken. Your proposed question title might not work. The question would maybe have to be named something like "What is wrong with configChanges when saving Activity state on Android" which is already close to the original question but might work especially when linked to the original question. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 21:19
  • Ah, I must have misunderstood the comments. They seemed to say that in general that was a bad idea.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 21:26
  • 1
    @Trilarion "But then you kind of lose the connection to this question" - Really, if it is a bad option for this question, why should we keep a connection to it..? If someone is using configChanges, they'll find the other question - "What is wrong with using configChanges". Why should be like "hey there is something called configChanges but there is no point in using it in this case" There are a lot, lot and lots of things that doesn't work for many things. I don't think it's worth keeping to show people searching for the good ways
    – T J
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 11:15
  • @TJ I agree mostly with what you said, only one objection: there is nothing wrong with using configChanges per se, I would say. Currently I'm thinking if it wouldn't be better to just mention these pitfalls among solutions in high voted answers and I also think that these examples of downvoted but useful answers are really rare. I actually think one can safely delete negatively scored answers. If I have more time I might search for better examples though. But I think they are rather rare. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 12:25
  • 2
    Conversion on Dalvik... -- 88 answers. Yikes. If any question could use some cleanup, that one could. The answer you cited? No one would ever see it.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 15:55
  • 2
    Some good negative advice on Saving Activity State on Android, but it's buried at the bottom of a 27 answer pile (there are six other deleted answers). Hmm, I see a pattern emerging here.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 15:58
  • 1
    the very first one is a "docs say do not do it this way", so you kind of prove the point these are useless and mis-information for those that do not read for comprehension. The fact that it is like 24 answers down means it will probably never be considered to begin with, it should be deleted.
    – user177800
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:31
  • @JarrodRoberson Hmm, these are extremely popular questions. You want to delete answers just because there are too many of them? At how many do you draw the line? Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:21
  • @RobertHarvey What pattern do you see emerging? Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:21
  • 2
    @Trilarion Bad answers that might have served as cautionary tales, had they not been buried under a heap of other answers. Too many answers on a question is a strong indicator that the question itself is of marginal quality.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:30
9

Here's a candidate (found by forking @Makoto's query and allowing specialisation by tag)

This is -27 net answer (+13/-40) to a popular (+595) question. There's a very good reason for it being -27, it basically advises calling exec on an arbitrary string - a real no-no in Python (as I was reminded in the SOPython chatroom, probably written by someone who wasn't familiar with Little Bobby Tables).

I think this is the kind of thing that Shog9 is arguing should hang around as a cautionary tale.


Makoto kinda pointed out in comments that I address only half the question, saying:

I suppose that does beg a question: this question is obviously patently terrible, but would an expert have answered it that way? If they wouldn't have, why are we preserving it?

The OP, to be fair, has three criteria and I think this hits only two

  1. any good examples of heavily downvoted answers,
  2. that are worth keeping on the site,
  3. which couldn't possibly exist in the form of "Don't do it this way"?

I think the example I give hits 1 & 2, but not 3. Of course the answer could be expressed as "You might be tempted to use exec, but never, ever do this because...". That might be upvoted, but possibly not, it would probably languish around the 0 mark. Such a caution could be tacked on to the end of an exemplary answer, which is probably the ideal.

I guess this then gets into a more difficult debate - should we go and edit those answers to make them more explicit e.g. add on to the front

"There is a way that might work for you, but it's a bad idea for X,Y and Z reasons. The original answer is quoted below..".

That might be better. But I'm not sure it's worth the time myself. I'm more of the live and let live (or die) mindset. I think the votes sort it out - there's no need to actually delete.

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  • 1
    I suppose that does beg a question: this question is obviously patently terrible, but would an expert have answered it that way? If they wouldn't have, why are we preserving it?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 15:53
  • @Makoto: "If they wouldn't have, why are we preserving it?" Because it has value. I honestly do not understand this need some people have to delete anything, whether it's causing a problem or not. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:54
  • Interestingly enough, since this answer was posted the candidate has dropped another six points, down to -33.
    – lnhubbell
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 17:42
  • Curiously enough, now the question has been deleted. At least three people felt like it wasn't a decent enough answer to keep around.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 15:34
  • 1
    @makoto Yeah, well, meta effect I guess. I don't know how I feel about that TBH. Doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but it kinda stunts discussion here and feels like "well, I'll use my deletion vote to ensure no-one under 10k can discuss this particular answer." I recognise that those who deleted are keen on keeping the site clean - fair enough - they all put a lot of time into it. I guess if anyone feels strongly they can go through the queries tag by tag. Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 20:02
6

I found an example (after browsing posts with is:a score:..-20). Basically, the answer was accepted because it (mostly?) works. As one of the comments points out, it's terrible code that breaks a lot of best practices, is brittle, and is inefficient. The answer was downvoted heavily as an anti-pattern, but the OP accepted the answer because it answered the question well enough.

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  • 8
    "worth keeping on the site"?
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:30
  • @gnat Well, that's not of such a bad sample, but a good researched. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:59
  • Please note that this has been rolled back to its original version. I split off the other example to a new answer to get more granular feedback on different kinds of answer that could qualify for this discussion.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:08
  • 3
    The accepted downvoted answer was also the first posted by 2 years, so at the time that might've been the best way of doing things, but years later there were better ways.
    – Tas
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 22:59
6

This certainly is one. It advocates a far too common approach to not-supported methods in LINQ to a SQL backend: fetch the whole shebang into memory and do the not supported stuff there.

It's a last (and then valid) resort if everything else fails, but usually it's turned to too easily.

The 9 downvotes (and not a single upvote) clearly drive the message home. Except for the OP...

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  • 3
    Other users have suggested that answers such as this could exist in the form of "As a last resort, you could do this: ... but you shouldn't because of X, Y, Z" or as an addition to an existing answer in the same form. What do you think about that course of action?
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 23:42
  • 1
    They could, I guess, but it doesn't happen. If someone knows the right solution (which is achieving what the OP wants, but by a supported method) they never point out the inferior method. But to say they couldn't possibly exist, well I guess they could, but if "nothing is impossible" nothing will ever qualify. Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 23:56
  • Ok, but if you want to make sure that people only use that method as a last resort, and you don't want someone else to post it as an answer without stating that it should only be used as a last resort and why, then why not put it in your answer alongside the superior solution?
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 23:59
  • 1
    Well, actually I did this to dispute the answer I referred to. So it may happen when the "bad way" is already among the answers. In other cases I don't often feel inclined to tell OPs how not to do things. I'm not sure how strictly you want to adhere to which couldn't possibly exist. As for me, I'm glad this alarm bell answer is there and I wouldn't like it to be removed by an automated process. Commented Feb 7, 2016 at 0:18
  • 1
    @GertArnold: You found one great example there. No way that answer should be auto-deleted. Arguably it could be re-written or massaged into some other answer, but you can't do that once it's auto-deleted. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 9:31
  • And now it has been deleted after all. Partly my fault, because I apparently cast a delete vote somewhere in the past. (Why don't they evaporate, like close votes?). Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 7:51
5

I forked the "most controversial posts" query to show all answers with more downvotes than upvotes, ordered by their number of upvotes:

https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/433487/most-controversial-downvoted-answers-on-the-site

Although these answers have a total negative score, many people found them useful.

Examples include:

Google Play on Android 4.0 emulator (95 upvotes, accepted)

How to pass an object from one activity to another on Android (42 upvotes)

How to detect IE 11 with javascript in Asp.net (32 upvotes, accepted)

How do I disable tabs for <a> tag (21 upvotes, accepted)

On a funny note, here is a post from Jon Skeet at -5: https://stackoverflow.com/a/9462979/145999

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  • This is definitely a good indicator of something that shouldn't be automatically deleted.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 20:23
3

Here is a query pulling in the bottom 1,000 questions on the site. This also pulls in things like whether or not the question was accepted and also the difference in time between when the question was answered.

I'd say that there may be some examples there, but they may lurk closer in the "accepted" category than not.

2

Well, here we go.

The currently accepted answer is wrong which is simply proven by the input (0.06f, 0.14f, 1). I explained the reason, I gave counterexamples and wrote much text why it cannot work reliably for binary floats.

My error was to bring up the issue in meta (normal meta, not stackoverflow meta) where I asked with incredible diplomatic skill (sarcasm) how we should react if we know that an answer is wrong.

People were quite impressed with my confidence and so I got three downvotes at Feb 2012 and one moderator even got so far to delete my answer later without my consent. I needed to go to meta to force him to take the deletion back.
For the answer itself: I am so convinced that it is impossible that I hereby bet 2000 points of my stackoverflow account if I cannot provide a counterexample to a function (less than 10k lines running on a real computer with limited resources, no memory to build gigantic tables) which parses two decimal arguments to floating-point and gives back the correct number of equal decimal significant figures for the two binary arguments and a given decimal fractional place.

The only upvote occured two years later, so it would have vanished for so long.

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  • So we should make it more strict than just -3 === deletion.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:54
  • 1
    It's hard to evaluate the answer, mostly it's a really crappy question. An important question, perhaps, resulting in upvotes, but the explanation of what exactly the poster is trying to accomplish... is sorely lacking. In this case, downvotes probably meant "This answer is useless because it answers a different question", and I pretty much agree with that, since I can't tell what the question is with sufficient precision in the first place.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:55
  • @BenVoigt We had that discussion already here. The problem is that the OP clarified in the 9th comment what he wanted and the people following this already given counterargument were not able to provide alternative interpretations fulfilling the condition. Also if you cannot discern what the question is actually asking, you cannot neither upvote nor downvote because you have no rational basis for your decision. The given upvotes also indicate that at least some people knew what was problem. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:41
  • 1
    "Unclear" is one of the downvote reasons
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:44
  • @TinyGiant I would not make that conclusion. We will never have a perfect system, you will always make errors: Question which should be deleted will remain and questions which should remain will get deleted. Given the overall impression I would say the false positive/negative rate is quite acceptable, it would have been passable in the big view if the answer were deleted with the algorithm because there were other opportunities in the future. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 21:56
  • @BenVoigt Ask Jon Skeet if the question and answer is unclear. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 8:48
-7

Just searching the most downvoted answers returned this answer to the Question

How can I install the Google Play .apk onto my Android 4.0 emulator?

With heavy paraphrasing, the answer is

You shouldn't do that because it wasn't designed that way and is of dubious legality.

A newer answer reveals that the other is currently obsolete, but seemed like a reasonable answer at the time. The answer is a bit more than "don't do it this way" because it says "just don't do that period." The answer challenges the premise of the question, which is pretty broad.

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  • 12
    Still not seeing why this should be kept around, considering that it seems to be pretty clearly just wrong. Why is this answer useful, and why would the site be worse off if it were deleted?
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 20:16
  • 4
    @Servy As an Android developer, I can say that the accepted and most downvoted answer is correct: Google Play (Store) is only available for devices licensed by Google. Google Play Services is a different "app", even though the name is very similar. That's why some Android devices don't have Play Store preinstalled. It can be installed, but that's outside of the scope (legal issue). Reading other answers though, telling me that OP's question might be misunderstood.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 12:04
  • 1
    @AndrewT. As stated in comments there, legal issues are country-specific, and completly independent from the 100% technical question that the OP asked, so they do not make the accepted answer "correct".
    – yms
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 19:28
  • I'm confused how this question is still around. It looks off-topic.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 16:57
  • @BenVoigt: The Android emulator is a programming tool. And programming tool questions are perfectly on-topic for Stack Overflow. Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 17:37
  • @Nicol but that question isn't about the emulator, that just happens to be the environment
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Feb 8, 2016 at 17:39

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