62

I flagged this answer as not an answer:

Visit this link http://craigmart.in/2012/01/17/import-an-existing-git-repo-to-eclipse/ will help you as a beginner.

Result: "declined - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it"

From Shog9's post on MSE:

Strip the markup, and this is what you're left with:

i think you should take The tutorial HERE! This will help you a lot

Is there even one tiny speck of information there? No.

There isn't a tiny speck of useful information in this answer after removing the link, so why was my flag declined? Is it a valid answer which should not be flagged?

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  • 2
    @bluefeet I do what you did there sometimes, in the same situation. In those cases, I usually leave the flag unhandled, on the assumption I or someone else will see them again soon-ish. But that's mostly because I'm going soft :P
    – Andrew Barber Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 20:03
  • 42
    Can we please stop deleting dissenting answers? Downvote if you disagree with an opinion, but the deleted answer below was an answer and deserves to be undeleted. The same goes for the other downvoted answer, which has two delete votes as of the time of this comment. Commented Nov 4, 2014 at 10:14
  • 5
    I find it frustrating that this is the exact same issue I brought up on meta 6 months ago. The exact same moderator declined the post, citing exactly the same reasons. The discussion that happened in my post proved that the majority of people disagreed with these reasons. I'd have hoped that moderators would adhere to the community consensus in these situations, rather than "going solo" regardless.
    – Matt
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 10:08
  • 2
    @Matt On average I deal with hundreds of flags a day, since I became a mod that number is in the thousands it is entirely possible that we occasionally make mistakes as I did with this one. But saying that "I'm going solo" or "even rouge" is a little unfair, IMO.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 11:04
  • 2
    FYI, @Matt: out of many thousands of flags handled, bluefeet declines roughly 13% of all VLQ or NAA flags she handles - that's on par with what the community at large declines/disputes via /review. A handful of disagreements out of many thousands of individual decisions is hardly "going solo". There's a pretty massive selection bias at work here...
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 16:09
  • 4
    @bluefeet: I didn't mean to imply you were going rogue. However, as I said in my comment above, given that you're still declining flags for the same reasons as what the community disagreed with 6 months ago, I can't explain it in any other way except you've effectively ignored the communities opinion and carried on declining for those reasons anyway. This wasn't a mistake. You purposefully declined the flag for the reasons you listed, which were the very reasons the community disputed 6 months ago.
    – Matt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 16:14

4 Answers 4

47

I removed the answer and closed the question. Near as I can tell given the comments, that answer wasn't even particularly helpful to the asker - sometimes, folks accept an answer simply because it's the only answer that even tried to help.

Bluefeet left a comment asking for elaboration, which was a nice thing to do. I would prefer such answers are removed anyway, even if a comment is left - leaving them sets a bad example for other readers and more importantly for the answer's author: plenty of folks coming from other forums don't realize that this sort of answer is discouraged here, and prompt deletion sends a clear message that commenting does not.

That said, if you're flagging these and there's some indication that the answer might have been helpful (upvotes / accept mark), please take a minute to leave a comment advising the author to edit. If they're responsive, this saves everyone a lot of time and frustration. Consider installing the pro forma comments script if you flag a lot of these...

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    If the answer ends up being deleted, the answerer can see this in his deleted answers, right? So they'd still be able to edit it and then undelete it. Today, I left this comment in the tavern, about a mod declining 3 of my NAA flags. They were all NAA according to Shog's official when an answer is not an answer post. Another user in the tavern, then went and flagged them all as NAA. This time they were all approved. Not a big deal, but mods shouldn't be declining flags in the hopes that a user will improve it in the future.
    – CRABOLO
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 18:54
  • 6
    See Brad's comment here: mods are expected to use their best judgment in all cases, and sometimes they come to different conclusions - especially when making split-second decisions. Very, very few legit NAA flags are ever declined, but if it happens just flag again and explain the situation - few things can't be solved by proper communication.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 19:24
  • 6
    @Shog9 "Very very few"? Check my flag history :P
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 19:41
  • 27
    Maybe you're just bad at it?
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 20:16
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    @Shog9 per my testing, it's rather some mods are not yet very good at understanding not-so-recent policy changes: "just run an experiment with flagging this answer. Looks funny how moderator handling it has chosen to ignore the guidance from Community Manager I quoted right there, in the comment posted under the answer..."
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 14:58
  • @gnat Regarding that comment you pointed out, I posted my comment after declining a custom flag that that only said link only answer. It was not a NAA flag. I'd suggest reading George's answer here on why we don't like the custom link only answer flags.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 15:29
  • 3
    @bluefeet my point is, SO moderators still seem to be having difficulties recognising cases that fall under another castle guidance, even when flaggers try to help them by referring to it: 'I run an experiment, flagged it NAA and got decline: "a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it". Wonder how hard is to not find evidence when post has comment referring to guidance...'
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 15:43
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    @gnat - We know full well what Shog9 has stated about link-based answers. We're not robots, sometimes we disagree about specific cases and sometimes we make mistakes. Of the hundreds of these flags we process on a regular basis, picking out a tiny handful that weren't handled according to the community consensus is not an indication that we're ignorant of stated policy. On the flipside, I should point out that flaggers often misread what Shog9 actually stated.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 15:52
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    @BradLarson I would sympathize this if only my "tests" weren't as clear cut
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 16:13
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    So far as I can tell, the posts you've linked to were deleted by moderators some time ago, @gnat. What's the test proving?
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 17:22
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    @Shog9 tests prove that moderators decline flags even when referred to relevant guidance. As for deletions, these happened due to meta effect (which is in my experience much more powerful than flagging... only less suitable for cleaning up tens thousands of link-only answers)
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 5, 2014 at 18:26
29

This is exactly what NAA is for. I think this is evidence that the LQRQ should handle these (after all this is what it's designed to do), not mods.

It's fairly obvious that the answer should be deleted: It contains no information and this behavior of posting a link in an answer is the last thing we need to go broken-window with the confusion in handling these.

Here the LQRQ would have added a helpful comment and fairly quickly deleted it. Moderator intervention in this case seems to be a net-negative because of the differences in flag handling.

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    I should note that, because it was upvoted, the low-quality review queue would not have been able to delete this. A unanimous delete vote would have triggered a system-generated "disputed review" flag that moderators would have had to review and act on. A moderator would still have needed to delete it in the end.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 15:50
  • 5
    @BradLarson Ugh. I think the LQRQ should be able to just delete. But in any case, the LQRQ can add helpful comments for the answer poster that (from what I've seen) flaggers and moderators don't always do.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 19:40
  • 7
    @BradLarson But then, by the time it made it to a moderator the person who posted the answer would have had time to fix it and the mod wouldn't be in a position where they felt they had to comment since there'd be a couple of canned comments pointing out the evil of the hyperlink already.
    – ivarni
    Commented Nov 4, 2014 at 6:52
-14

I declined the flag for the following reasons:

  • the OP accepted the answer so they found this link helpful to solve their problem - removing this doesn't make the internet a better place
  • You didn't at all attempt to get the user to expand the answer via a comment, etc before flagging it. I added a comment when I declined your flag
  • You could easily have edited that answer to make it better

Now, those were my reasons for the decline... however, I'll admit that I should have marked this as helpful; that was a mistake on my part.

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    @FrédéricHamidi - I'm all for "very low quality" and "not an answer" flags being completely hidden from moderators until they've fully passed through review. The community usually reviews these well. I should however note that we get hundreds of these flags a day (bluefeet has handled over 400 flags of various types so far today), so the few that get complained about represent a tiny fraction of the whole. In general, we do have a consensus on this. However, we're human, so every now and then we disagree about specific cases. It'll happen no matter who is moderating things.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 16:17
  • 3
    Moderator Note: I purged comments because it turned into "You ought to do this, you ought to do that". If you have an answer for how it should be handled, post an answer so that the community can vote on it. By having the argument in the comments, it appears that you're dumping on the moderator just to dump on the moderator. That's not acceptable here. If you have a comment seeking clarification, post that comment. Once that's done, there's no need for back and forth.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Nov 4, 2014 at 13:23
  • 2
    @BradLarson/ bluefeet: Why do moderators handle these types of flags, when they know (?) that they get handled by the LQP queue as well? Can't these types of flags just be skipped/ ignored by you in the moderator queue, and instead you process the flags which don't get handled in LQP (spam, "other") etc?
    – Matt
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 10:03
  • 1
    @Matt We process hundreds of flags and the UI isn't always the best at filtering stuff. While we do have a custom script to filter, there are times that these pop up and IMO it is just easier to process them if they are in front of me.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 10:52
  • 1
    @bluefeet: I remember the old 10k flag queue had a filter along the right hand side, which let you choose which type of flag you wanted to view; do you not get that on the moderator queue :(?
    – Matt
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 10:53
  • @Matt Yes, we have that which allows us to tackle specific areas. Sometimes the NAA/VLQ bubble to the top of the full list because of multiple flags. We also have a custom script written by Shog9 that allows for further filtering. Depending on what we are working on it is still possible for these to popup in front of us. I'd rather process them when they are in front of me.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 10:56
  • 4
    @Matt - I've formalized this into a feature request: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/243145/…
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 16:49
  • @BradLarson: Nice. You have my +1!
    – Matt
    Commented Nov 6, 2014 at 17:22
-19

Because it is an answer to the question Any useful information or links to Git tutorials are also welcome!. It's the question asking for a recommendation.

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    Don't understand the arguments here - this answer is legit. Note that before deleting the answer, I also closed the question - if you don't treat the root cause of the problem, you end up wasting far too much time treating symptoms.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 3, 2014 at 19:26
  • 3
    as demonstrated by the question edit in rev 2, the bit asking for tutorials, as well as personal stuff like thanks and ramblings about feeling confused are noise that only obscured the question asked: "why there are errors... how I would import..." From that perspective, link dumped into the "answer" merely exploits a minor mistake made by inexperienced asker
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 4, 2014 at 15:49

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