6

This isn't really a complaint about this specific audit (although failing it did give me a review ban despite the fact that I've only failed two in almost three months).

I thought that we had an official stance on link-only answers: we have a canonical question and even a delete reason in the queue for them. So, why is it that this is considered "Looks OK" (I know that the system decides and that it just saw the score of 5 and doesn't care about anything else, but this is for the sake of argument):

You can do that with the numbers_and_words gem:

https://github.com/kslazarev/numbers_and_words

It supports languages other than english as well.

For example:

21.to_words
=> "twenty-one"

44.to_words
=> "forty-four"

So, yes, it does technically answer the question, but the answer is almost useless without the link. Now that mods have started reviewing low quality flags, the flag itself is essentially obsolete, because there is no case where they will approve a flag that isn't blatantly not an answer (in which case you'd use a not an answer flag).

So, why do we still have it? And since there's a growing consensus that the flag is useless (and audits that seemingly agree), why do we have a delete reason in the review queue for them?

12
  • 2
    is it still possible to install the gem if the link goes dead? Official gems have that property. Sep 6, 2014 at 14:29
  • 20
    The answer isn't useless without the link. The answer is useless without the library. Why is relying on that library link-only, but relying on jQuery isn't? Sep 6, 2014 at 14:39
  • 2
    @JanDvorak True, but jQuery is such a commonly-used library that some people answer JavaScript questions with the assumption that the asker is already using it. While referencing some obscure gem is technically fine, the answer is almost entirely useless without the link. Yes, you can install the gem, but you don't get access to documentation and you have to look it up yourself: no one should get 50 reputation for an answer like that.
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 14:43
  • Admittedly, the question itself is bad and should be closed, but the point of the review queue is to focus on one specific post at a time, and if an answer sitting in front of you should be deleted, then you should "Recommend Deletion" (which is the entire point in the first place).
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 14:45
  • 2
    "Now that mods have started reviewing low quality flags" - I think you have this backwards. Moderators have always been presented with these flags, it's only recently that most of them have been offloaded from us to the Low Quality Posts review queue. We now only see a small fraction of these.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Sep 6, 2014 at 14:55
  • @BradLarson I recall that very recently (maybe a month ago), one of the moderators said that you had gone through many of the other types of flags and were starting to review Low Quality flags more heavily. The definition of the flag has also become stricter and I've noticed that since then, about 50-60% of my flags are now declined, whereas before, it was more like 5-10%.
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:03
  • 4
  • @BilltheLizard This question is about why that question may be outdated.
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:11
  • @AstroCB - Moderators used to be presented with all such flags, and we declined many of them, as we were instructed. I can't remember when the Low Quality Posts queue started taking most of these in, but reviewers there are a lot less strict than we are (and they cannot decline, only dispute). A couple of weeks ago, we burned through our flag backlog and started going after outstanding low quality flags (declining many of them) thus the very recent change in handling.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:18
  • @BradLarson Okay, so I guess my problem here was my perception of this change. The LQP queue is much more willing to delete posts than moderators (who are rightly more careful: perhaps my wording in the question was a bit too accusatory), so it makes sense that the fate of LQ flags varies based on who handles them.
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:24
  • 2
    @AstroCB - I really do like having the community handle flags like this. It's one thing to have a flag be accepted or declined by a lone moderator, and another to have it be voted on by a jury of peers. I do get a little concerned that accepted flags by the queue are still being used as audit cases, since I have seen some mistakes or very borderline calls there, and the audits have tripped up reviewers on the other side. The purpose and usage of the "low quality" flag needs to evolve, but I'm not totally sure in what direction.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:29
  • 1
    Related: Should I vote to delete low-quality answers that I don't like?
    – user289086
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:42

2 Answers 2

47

You have an official stance on this. So many people read only part of Shog9's post there and assume it means that anything with a link in it should immediately be deleted. That's not at all what he says, and is not what many of us have said.

What he tells us to remove are answers like this:

i think you should take The tutorial HERE! This will help you a lot

where there is absolutely zero value in the link-stripped text. (I'm still personally not a huge fan of this, since I think we're causing the very same link rot we're intending to prevent, but I've been overruled.)

The second part of his post is the one most people pass right over. What he states is that if the answer still has any value without the presence of the link, we most likely will reject flags calling for it to be removed.

That's the case in the answer above. How else can someone refer to an open source component that solves a problem? Stack Overflow isn't a code-hosting service, so they can't place the entire library within their answer. They have to be able to link to it. The problem is even worse for closed-source components or tools.

They did what we always recommend: provide the name of the project, link to that project, and describe how it can be applied to the problem at hand. If that link goes down, we still have a chance of being able to search for the project and see if it's at a new location. We might even be able to find a spiritual successor based on how this library was described to work.

I see no reason to preemptively delete helpful information like this. How does that make the Internet a better place?

2
  • That makes sense; I guess what struck me here is the brevity of the answer, but I think that that's just due to the subject at hand there.
    – AstroCB
    Sep 6, 2014 at 15:17
  • 1
    This reminds me of this discussion. Interestingly, despite the official stance, it's a subject that leads to disagreement once in a while. Some users can have a strong opinion one way or another.
    – Bruno
    Sep 6, 2014 at 17:20
4

The low quality post review queue is not about the threshold for what a very low quality flag is. Nor is it about link only answers. Nor is it about if something is an answer or not.

The Low Quality Post review queue reads:

Low Quality Posts

Identify, then improve or delete low-quality posts

Thats the threshold and what people who review posts in the LQP review queue are looking at.

The question that the reviewer is asked is: "Is this something that is low quality? Do you want it on the site in its current state? If no, can you edit it into better shape? If it can't be edited into a better quality post, delete it (or recommend doing so)."

If there is nothing wrong with the post and it represents what you want on the site select "Looks Good"

If there is something wrong with the post you then have the options of "Edit" in which case you are directed to fix all of the problems with this post. This doesn't mean just fix up the formatting unless that is all that is wrong with it. Can this post be made into a good one?

If, one cannot make the post into a good one, then "Recommend Deletion" is a distinct and reasonable possibility to take. Such a recommendation has no bearing on if the post was an attempt to answer. Nor does it have any bearing on if its a link only.

Here's an important bit. You can recommend deleting something with a much lower threshold for if it should or not than mods can. Why? Because you're not a mod. You don't have a binding vote. This is not an exceptional process that needs a human exception handler. This is the community looking at the quality of a post and saying "yep, its crap" or "no, keep it" and thus deciding what types of posts it wants to accept.

If you feel that something should be deleted and its in the LQP review queue, recommend deleting it. This is how you, as part of the community, decides what is acceptable and what isn't as an answer on Stack Overflow.

Vote, edit, approve or edit in accordance with what you want the site to become.

And maybe... if enough people agree, the quality that people perceive as the minimal acceptable quality of an answer will go up.
Because you know how much we love those regex one line answers.

3
  • 1
    Agreed. I've personally never used the "Looks OK" option, because if something ends up in the queue, it's there for a reason: if it's beyond repair, I recommend deletion, and otherwise, I edit (that mindset is probably what got me into this situation in the first place).
    – AstroCB
    Sep 7, 2014 at 2:26
  • 3
    @AstroCB On other SE sites, I've had things show up in the LQP review for reasons I don't know where I've hit Looks OK. And I will absolutely delete vote crap that represents the types of answers I don't want to see on the site.
    – user289086
    Sep 7, 2014 at 2:33
  • 2
    (and yea, I know... those are all nicely pink backgrounds that won't show unless you've got 10k rep on P.SE). The thing is, if its not something that you want on the site, this is one of the means that the community has to impose its will. Mods are constrained by higher standards and can't act on much of it. However, the community, through review is the way to actually say "I've upped my standards. Now, up yours." to the low quality crap that is constantly flooding the site (both questions and answers).
    – user289086
    Sep 7, 2014 at 2:39

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