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In light of recent discussion, the quality of questions on Stack Overflow is dropping rapidly, and as such, I find myself being more of a critic than I used to be a year ago.

Questions which hardly show any effort on the part of the asker are becoming more and more prevalent, oftentimes just consisting of a couple of lines of code with the obligatory "can anybody help me?". These questions do not provide a specific description of the problem experienced, and more often than not lack a descriptive error message, or approaches already attempted by the person asking.

Therefore they ignore the first, and one of the most important principles outlined for a good question on the how to ask-page, namely:

  • Pretend you're talking to a busy colleague and have to sum up your entire question in one sentence: what details can you include that will help someone identify and solve your problem? Include any error messages, key APIs, or unusual circumstances that make your question different from similar questions already on the site.

These questions usually boil down to the person asking not wanting to put in the effort required to solve his problem, and asking others to do his work for him.

Though that may be what this website has always (kind of) been about, I find myself downvoting these questions and providing them with comments pointing out why I downvoted it and how the question could be improved, which is often along the lines of "what have you tried already?", "what is the error you are getting?, etc.

However, I often get a lot of flak for posting comments like that from people who are willing to do the OP's homework, and answered his question. This makes me question if I am doing the right thing, or maybe I'm too harsh on these people?

Should I keep downvoting these poorly written questions, or am I becoming a grumpy old man who's trying to stick to traditions of a time long past? When is it "OK" to downvote a question, and when is it not?

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  • 172
    The downvote button tooltip says: 'This question does not show any research effort, it is unclear, or not helpful'. I tend to read it as 'This question does not show enough research effort, it is unclear (except to you), or not helpful for anybody else'....
    – rene
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 8:52
  • 36
    I see no point in another discussion about being harsh or welcoming new users etc...You are not obligated to vote at all... it's not like a downvote is always required on poor questions. If you feel like something deserves a downvote in YOUR OWN OPINION, than vote and dont think of consequences.
    – user2140173
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 14:44
  • 41
    you can never error on the side of too many down votes because there are thousands of people willing to come behind you and up vote crap for no reason at all. So down vote your daily maximum, it can only help the site!
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 17:54
  • 21
    Oh yeah, if it is worth of a downvote it probably needs a close vote and vice versa! Nothing makes much less sense than a question that 5 people voted to close and not a single down vote on the question!
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 18:03
  • 17
    @JarrodRoberson: A lot of new people post a question and throw a hissy fit if we "maek them lose all there rep". I tend to only downvote if the OP has >100 rep, but use close votes liberally. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 22:23
  • @KeithThompson the follow up, what others are going to do think etc. voting is anonymous, it doesnt require to leave a comment etc... you can never expect every single person to upvote good stuff or downvote bad stuff. I have seen ideal questions with 100s of upvotes and random 5 downvotes... how to make sense out of that then
    – user2140173
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 7:46
  • 29
    @JarrodRoberson It makes a lot of sense to vote to close a question without down-voting if the question simply belongs somewhere else. A new user (or even a somewhat experienced one) can easily choose the wrong SE site for a question, in which case a vote to close makes perfect sense and a downvote does not.
    – dfeuer
    Commented May 1, 2014 at 4:20
  • 5
    When it is justifiable? From what I can see users do it always when they disagree, it's a newbie or they just don't like that person. Personal experience.
    – Adam Barak
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 21:32
  • 10
    wait, down votes are supposed to be justifiable? by whom?
    – user177800
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 2:23
  • 3
    I have enough "reputation points" to UpVote, but not nearly the required 125 points to DownVote! If I continuously UpVote, what's the point?
    – eoredson
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 3:23
  • 2
    In fact I have just recently been awarded the right to UpVote any comment, and cannot DownVote a comment as well..
    – eoredson
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 3:28
  • 4
    @eoredson no one can downvote comments.
    – user4639281
    Commented Sep 7, 2016 at 5:13
  • @c0der - every down vote comes with a complete explanation, just hover over the down vote button and you will get all the explanation you should expect or deserve for a very good reason. "This question does not show any research effort; it is unclear or not useful* so your assertion that the down votes typically with no explanation is not factually correct, since every down vote has one by default.
    – user177800
    Commented Sep 14, 2016 at 14:16
  • We need more like "How to downVote" actually.
    – JW.ZG
    Commented Sep 23, 2016 at 4:09
  • 2
    Any time this applies.
    – user1228
    Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 20:50

8 Answers 8

275

Don't over-protect users. Judge the quality of the post dispassionately:

  • Poorly written question? Downvote and move on.

  • Fed up with OP's wall of hideous spaghetti code? Downvote and move on.

  • Did the OP obviously forego googling? Downvote and move on.

  • Did the OP obviously forego reading the documentation? Downvote and move on.

  • Is the OP confusing Stack Overflow with a free version of Mechanical Turk? Downvote and move on.

The list goes on, and on, ad nauseam.

As things stand, perhaps 99% of the questions on certain tags merit a downvote or ten. Browse your favorite tags, open a dozen questions in new tabs, and don't even try to parse the question if it's obviously low quality: downvote and move on.

For the few that don't immediately qualify for a down vote, actually scan through the question to pick up an overall impression. If the post is too long, unclear, hard to understand, lazy, downvote and move on.

By laziness here, I mean not demonstrating the minimum amount of effort you'd expect from a co-worker who shows up with a question. If he obviously went through the documentation, googled his problem, perhaps tried a thing or two, and now needs a hand, some direction, or a second pair of eyes, that's absolutely fine and that's what colleagues (or Stack Overflow enthusiasts) are for. Anything short of that is broadcasting the message that you're expected to do his work.

On the right tags, you'll plough through your 40-vote limit per day in a matter of minutes.

Moreover, a question ban will only kick in if an OP's questions are sufficiently downvoted. So don't be afraid to downvote stuff that deserves it.

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    -1. Please, leave a comment if you downvote unless somebody else already specified the reason to downvote.
    – jfs
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 14:52
  • 120
    At no point do you think that you should comment instead of move on to help OP become a good member of SO?
    – JuJoDi
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 14:55
  • 168
    @J.F.Sebastian: Do tell… Why should I be bothered to waste even a moment explaining a down vote if OP cannot be bothered to do his homework and research before asking? Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 14:56
  • 264
    @Denis Why should you waste a moment? Because if you don't, they'll just keeping posting the same badly mangled questions. If you care enough to downvote, shouldn't you care enough to tell the new poster what they are doing wrong. Doesn't have to be long, just one of "We can't help you unless you tell us what you've tried/clearly explain the problem/clearly explain what you're trying to achieve/explain why the docs (or basic google search) haven't helped you"...
    – AmeliaBR
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 14:59
  • 38
    @AmeliaBR: Not necessarily. After a sufficient number of closed, down voted questions, an OP gets question banned. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:02
  • 103
    @Denis because some people have a genuine interest in contributing to this site and some contributors have a genuine interest in helping the site and its users grow. Your answer pushes newcomers away and is entirely negative. Why should you have to be competent to want to learn to program?
    – JuJoDi
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:02
  • 171
    @JuJoDi: Stack Overflow is NOT a site to learn to program. It is a site for * professional and enthusiast programmers*. If someone comes here asking for help to learn to code, that person is on the wrong site. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:07
  • 32
    @JuJoDi People like that generally don't ask completely terribly awful questions, and in the event that they do get downvotes, they're the type of people who will look through the help center, faq, etc. to look for resources on how to ask appropriate questions. There's more that enough information out there on how to ask good questions, people just need to have the willingness to go read it.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:08
  • 78
    Downvote, and... don't move on yet! Cast a close vote if applicable. Then proceed on your merry way.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:34
  • 138
    This is all good advice, but I would hasten to add that if a question doesn't fall into these traps please upvote it! Carrot + stick works better than just stick; don't forget to reward the folks who get it right. When folks see the front page of the site or the hot lists, they should see examples they can follow - if we don't upvote them, this won't happen no matter how many downvotes we cast.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 17:53
  • 77
    Taking into account your: "At the first hint of incompetence, down vote and move on." -1 for ad nausea. Please, please! Don't try to look cool using Latin if you don't actually know Latin. ad wants the accusative case not the nominative case! The correct form is: ad nause-am.
    – Bakuriu
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 17:57
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    Oh, and don't waste your time commenting on trivial errors that you can fix in less time than it takes to talk about them. @Bakuriu.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 17:59
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    @Shog9 I wanted to provide an extreme example of what Denis wrote. Even if he took his time writing this answer in a very clear way, it was still incompent in a detail which, according to himself, should deserve a downvote straightaway and no looking back (or further).
    – Bakuriu
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 18:03
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    I feel like your attitude is 100% the reason this question got asked: goo.gl/9sbjHy. The problem is, a lot of what you said is right. The part that you were especially correct about was expecting the degree of effort your co-worker would put in. But PLEASE don't tell people not to even bother thoroughly reading questions or to click down vote at the first sign it looks like a bad question. If you expect them to take the time to write good questions, you should at least take the minimum time to make sure they are really bad questions before down voting.
    – dallin
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 0:35
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    @AndrewC: I can't speak for others, but I can take almost any amount of trivial questions from colleagues. Especially when they come from a intern. What I cannot take however, is them asking me or others do their job for them without the slightest effort to show for it. And sadly, the vast majority of SO questions I run into fall into that latter category. Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 4:52
180

Downvote if the question:

  • Doesn't show research effort

    • Asking us to do ... anything, with no attempt to do so oneself.

    • The question can be answered with a copy-paste from the manual.

    • The question can be answered by copying directly from one of the results in the first page of a Google search of the title (or similar).

  • Is unclear

    • It takes you more than ~10-20 seconds to get a basic idea of what the question is asking.

    • The language in the question is such a mess that you have absolutely no idea what's going on. It might not even be a programming question. Perhaps the guy's trying to make coffee. Perhaps he's trying to make contact with some aliens.

      I'm fairly lenient on the language aspect - not everyone is particularly good at English. If I can edit it to fix most language issues, I'd rather do that.

    • The question is underspecified to such an extent that you'll have to write a book if you were to consider all the possible assumptions you could make in trying to answer the question.

      One or two unclear things doesn't usually cause me to downvote, but I might vote to close it instead if those things makes it impossible to answer the question.

    I consider downvoting on the unclear aspect a more extreme version of voting to close as unclear (although the reverse may be true for some), but I often vote to close as well when downvoting for this reason.

  • Is not useful

    • The question is so fundamentally wrong for this site that you have to wonder what OP was smoking.

      This is probably more of a repetition issue - just a single off topic question here and there might not be downvote-worthy (arguable...), but if one can't be bothered to post on the correct site or conform to the on-topic guidelines, one really should help oneself to a few downvotes.

    • You strongly feel that the question wouldn't provide any / much value to anyone else, for whatever reason (but there isn't a close reason that applies).

      Ideally we should be allowed to close these, but work with what you've got, I guess... (there is the unreproducible / typographical error reason, but that doesn't exactly cover everything)

      I personally feel "Is my answer right?"-type questions (e.g. complexity analysis of functions, binary search tree insertions by hand) are often not particularly useful, so I may downvote them.

And absolutely DO NOT comment without downvoting where a downvote would've been appropriate, hoping OP will fix their issues eventually, or that those one or two downvotes already on the question is enough. Questions with a few downvotes that get fixed can easily pick up enough upvotes again to reach a positive score. And while some may change due to a few "What have you tried?" comments on their question, the vast majority is unlikely to, where-as a handful of downvotes is way more likely to change them, or at least get them off the site quick enough if they don't.

Although, by all means, downvote and post a comment if you wish. But I personally feel that "This question does not show any research effort; it is unclear or not useful" is pretty self-explanatory in most cases, although this isn't really the issue up for discussion here.

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    that's a bit too long for a tool-tip on voting arrows ;) +1 though
    – user2140173
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:12
  • A tip of the hat towards close votes here might be nice too. Well written though :)
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:36
  • Honourable mention to Is it appropriate to downvote a question without closevoting it? Beyond mentioning that, I'm not sure how to incorporate mentioning close votes in more detail here. Roughly ... close the question if one of the close reasons apply, but also if it's not useful or not good for the site (which presumably includes off-topic-ness) - don't just close it because one of the reasons apply. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 15:55
  • 4
    You'd think google searching the exact title of a question wouldn't work all that often, but it does. Surprisingly a good percentage of these questions are well-written and show a bit of effort, but simply demonstrate a failure at googling - makes you wonder what OP searched for. Even worse, often when a question can be answered in this way there is another relevant stackoverflow question in the top three results, which means both the automated duplicate checker and the SO search were not used (or useful) either. At least this mostly leads to a duplicate and the question can be closevoted...
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 17:57
  • 19
    Absolutely do not reply? How do newbies learn this way? If they're brand new to the site, for crying out loud, remind them of the obvious and link 'em to the FAQ. One doesn't need to beat up newbies just because they're newbies. Downvote, yeah, but comments more often than not DO help the person become a better SO member. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 22:20
  • 7
    @JasonMc92 No, absolutely do not just comment. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 22:55
  • Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I keep "hearing" (seeing) people say to never bother commenting. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 23:04
  • 2
    I do not feel that an unclear question is always a reason to downvote. Yes, some questions show a lack of effort and should be downvoted. But for some people, English is not their first language or they just are not talented at expressing themselves clearly. Should they be excluded from SO? If you can tell this is a case, don't downvote, instead edit their question to make it clearer or leave a comment or move on.
    – dallin
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 0:43
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    This is the correct answer. Why is it below the "rip off their faces, spit down their gaping neck hole, and move on" answer?
    – dallin
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 1:00
  • 8
    @dallin I agree that one should edit it instead if possible, but if someone is unable to express themselves somewhat understandably in English, the sad fact of the matter is - having their illegible questions stick around and having them continue to ask such questions isn't helping anyone. While commenting to request clarification is good, it shouldn't take away from downvoting and/or closing these questions as they're unable to be answered in their current state (and we shouldn't wait forever before doing so - the system is made to reopen and upvote it if the problems get fixed). Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 1:57
  • 7
    A lot of people downvote because "it takes you [them] more than ~10-20 seconds to get a basic idea of what the question is asking.", where the problem is that the person downvoting doesn't understand the problem space. That's a practice that needs to be stamped out. People should only downvote if they can explicitly determine why the question is incomprehensible to them - say, it's very poor English or the code indentation is terrible. If it's incomprehensible and they're not sure why, they should leave it alone, because it's likely their comprehension and not the question that's at fault.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 4, 2014 at 14:27
  • 6
    @WarrenDew A well put together question allows anyone, even those with no domain knowledge, to quickly get a basic idea of what it is asking. It's about clearly stating the problem and laying the question out in such a way that you don't have to read the whole of a long question before you figure out whether the asker wants to know why the code gives some error, how the code works, how to do something, a better approach, or whatever. Commented May 4, 2014 at 14:43
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    @WarrenDew Either we have vastly different opinions on what "a basic idea of what the question is asking" is, or the questions we've looked at are largely mutually exclusive. You don't have to understand anything said in the question to have a basic idea of what it's asking. The end of my last comment summarizes exactly what I mean - "the asker wants to know why the code gives some error, how the code works, how to do something, a better approach, or whatever.". Commented May 4, 2014 at 15:00
  • 1
    @SajibAcharya If a question doesn't belong on Stack Overflow, you should absolutely comment or vote to close. When deciding whether to downvote, you should probably take into account how clear and useful the question is and how far off topic it is, although you could also argue that downvoting might motivate the asker to move it themselves, but I haven't found that to work too well. Commented Dec 23, 2015 at 9:57
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    People can down vote for any reason period. Just because 1 person "feels like it" or "in their mind" believes the question isn't good for "them" they simply down vote it. I have witnessed many times that an experienced programmer will down vote a question, because "for them" it's a question that is so easy, it shouldn't even be asked. Obviously someone posts a question because they don't know the answer and they have tried to debug the issue, and find the answer. This happened to me. My question was carefully researched, and drafted, with code- but apparently not good enough for somebody.
    – Paul
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 2:11
38

I think that you can be objective about this question and you should put aside any moral concerns. This reminds me of something Joel Spolsky has written in one of his articles:

Don’t be afraid that you’re going to reject too many people and you won’t be able to find anyone to hire. During the interview, it’s not your problem. Of course, it’s important to seek out good candidates. But once you’re actually interviewing someone, pretend that you’ve got 900 more people lined up outside the door.

Same analogy.

So when it comes to objectively evaluating a question you should be ruthless and free of any moral constraints. Use downvote and flag the question for closure. If you just downvote nothing will happen and we'll just see a bunch of downvoted questions. If you flag it there is a good chance that it will be closed and it will cease to pollute the list of questions with noise.

There is an important thing though: you should comment on the question. This should be a no-brainer but people often just fire and forget. If you don't tell them what the problem is they might just get angry and ask again or something like that. On the contrary if you comment and tell them what was the problem they get feedback and can improve (if they want to of course).

In my case I often short-circuit if I see any of these patterns and downvote+flag+comment on the question accordingly. I think that it is OK if you have a file with the standard comments for every pattern.

  • Classic bozo question like:

How to pass arraylist of custom class in intent using Parcelable interface ? I have arraylist having objects of custom class now i want to pass this arraylist from one activity to another activity. Please help ! Thanks in advance.

No code, no Exception no nothing. You might often feel in these cases that the user is so hopelessly pointless that no amount of explaining will make him/her understand. Standard answer is :

This question in its current form is not answerable, consider editing it or reading the FAQ.

  • "I failed to google my basic question" question:

I'm newbie in coding and i do know that both programming language supports OBJECTS but can anyone explain what is the major difference in term of object in both languages.

Thanks in advance

Standard answer: I think this question can be googled rather quickly. If you don't understand what the problem is please read the FAQ.

  • "Solve my homework" question:

This is a homework that I want your help in order to do it! Thanks all!!! Hope it is not difficult to give me instructions how to solve it or to give me some parts of code to start with!

Then he goes on and copy-pastes the homework and the instructions. Standard answer is: This is a question and answer site if you are confused please read the FAQ. If you want someone to solve your homework hire a consultant but we are not supposed to solve it for you. After all it is a homework assignment in the first place.

  • "Suggest me a library" question:

Can anybody suggest me a Code Library Software that we can implement in our development team. We are working on the following development technologies:

iPhone (on Mac) Android (on Windows & Mac) PHP/LAMP Model ( on Windows & Mac) Flash/ActionScript (on Windows & Mac) Thank you.

Standard answer is: On this site we are supposed to provide concrete answers to concrete questions. Suggestions are not part of its agenda. If something is not clear please read the FAQ.

  • Classic duplicate question:

How does parameter passing work in java?

It has been answered like 1024 times. No reason to answer it again. You don't need to comment since after flagging it a comment will appear with something like "possible duplicate of..."

These are the most common ones I see. There are some general things to remember:

  • Downvoting/flagging is not a personal attack. You evaluate a question and react to it. This is supposed to be objective only considering the question itself not the user.
  • Sometimes you will feel the need to answer the question. Don't do it. It will just lead to a proliferation of new questions with zero worth and you will end up cleaning up the mess.
  • If someone gets fed up and starts to attack you personally then stay objective and link to the FAQ or explain the problem again. Imagine yourself in their situation. Stay polite and use the flag function.
  • Don't be afraid to comment. Voting anonymously is easier, I know but if you don't provide a pointer to what the problem is you leave the user without any guidance.

I hope this helps.

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    -1 I think you are wrong. There are many ON HOLD questions that are very useful to me and other people and are often left unanswered.
    – Adam Barak
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 6:09
  • 2
    Just because there are a lot of ON HOLD questions it does not mean that any of them are in the categories I mentioned. I did not say that there are no useful questions ON HOLD.
    – Adam Arold
    Commented Mar 13, 2018 at 9:52
  • Well, are you actually suggesting downvoters should harass curators taking care of review queues by both downvoting and flagging ? As I see it downvotes should be enough to go all the way up to questions deletion. And the actual thing we should ask ourself is only "Should this question be on SO ?", not asking to yet someone else to take actual decision.
    – kriss
    Commented Jun 28, 2020 at 16:34
17

I will concentrate on two parts of the question:

However, I often get a lot of flak for posting comments like that from people who are willing to do the OP's homework, and answered his question. This makes me question if I am doing the right thing, or maybe I'm too harsh on these people?

Probably for different users different things are the "right thing". People have different tolerances towards badly posed questions. Some will require less.

You have a right to downvote, but others have a right to answer questions even if they are downvoted.

I would even go further and say, as long as there are others willing to do the OP's homework, well, it's their business, isn't it? It doesn't affect you and how you see the question. I would still downvote the question (but not the answer).

Should I keep downvoting these poorly-written questions, or am I becoming a grumpy old man who's trying to stick to traditions of a time long past? When is it "OK" to downvote a question, and when is it not?

It is okay, when it is according to the guidelines. Your way (the traditional way I assume) is not worse than other ways. Just continue, but stay open just in case a usage pattern emerges that might be better.

Lately I wonder if downvotes and close votes are not strongly correlated and therefore partly redundant. One could imagine that there would be no downvotes, but only upvotes or close votes. In this case the discussion would be more to the point: to close or not to close.

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    "no downvotes but only upvotes or close votes" - I very much like that.
    – firda
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 20:59
  • 3
    @firda: Well, that would need a completely different system as lots of important parts depend on downvotes (among others, quality-bans, delete-voting, and the roomba would need to be replaced). Would it be better? That depends on how the lack of downvotes is compensated. Commented Sep 17, 2015 at 15:33
  • 2
    I would have given you +10, if I could! 4 years later, and especially after the reduction of the close votes required to close a question, I strongly believe that downvotes are able to kill even salvageable posts, because they don't give time even to willing askers to perform the simple edits. Those edits would sometime tranform a closeable question in an interesting one, but there's no chance ti recover a -2. Commented Jan 20, 2020 at 19:30
  • 1
    I strongly agree with your last paragraph, with a twist, close votes are usefull in once case: duplicates, because we do not want to remove them but close the question and point to the duplicate (also not all duplicates are exact duplicates than can be merged). Why not use downvotes to go up the logical end of bad questions: actual deletion, without transit by review queue.
    – kriss
    Commented Jun 28, 2020 at 16:38
  • 1
    I disagree with “ as long as there are others willing to do the OP's homework, well, it's their business, isn't it? It doesn't affect you” because answering bad questions leads to more bad questions, and avid users of the site have to waste their time looking at those bad questions instead of looking at good questions. Commented Dec 29, 2022 at 17:51
  • @EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica I fully understand. The source of the disagreement is probably that I see homework questions not as bad questions per se while you seem to equal them. Homework is just a label to me and not a particularly specific one. I think there even might be good, useful homework questions. Please also note that my answer is from 2014, more than 8 years ago. I'm not even sure I would agree with myself would I carefully read and understand the matter again. Commented Dec 29, 2022 at 18:55
5

Anytime you feel like it basically.

But a little more seriously: Last year, many close options for reviewers were removed. In their place, the use of the downvote was recommended in many of these cases. Therefore, anytime a question shows what you judge as lack of quality, downvote it. Really the question for the discerning user is when should a question be closed as well. That is the question which requires more explanation. If you feel a question needs a-downvoting, downvote it.

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    I don't think that should be the case. Just because 1 person "feels like it" or "in their mind" believe the question isn't good for "them" they simply down vote it. I have witnessed many times that an experienced programmer will down vote a question, because "for them" it's a question that is so easy, it shouldn't even be asked. Obviously someone posts a question because they don't know the answer and they have tried to debug the issue, and find the answer. This happened to me. My question was carefully researched, and drafted, with code- but apparently not good enough for somebody.
    – Paul
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 2:05
  • Sorry for the very late comment. But this is false. Closing is just as recommended as it was before. Close vote is far more helpful than a downvote. Read the link you gave. The system was streamlined, but there is no suggestion to downvote instead. Commented Mar 13, 2021 at 22:46
-7

The casuistic of a "lazy" question could be a lot. Maybe they are lazy, stressed, have poor English skills (like me, sorry for that), or maybe they are very lost. Who knows.

I suppose a direct downvote is not the best option. Maybe the second option before trying with a comment saying that the question is not right. Anyway, if the user is willing to learn, he/she will make another better question, so it is not a big deal.

-10

The top-voted answers on this question adopt an "ahistorical" view of questions. That is, a question is what it is when asked; and you will downvote or not-downvote it and move on with your life.

In fact, questions change due to feedback - especially when they're poor or lacking in some respect, and thus don't get answers which satisfy the posting user. And this is more common with new/inexperienced users.

Therefore I would qualify what the top-voted answers suggest, by saying that users, especially new ones, should first receive comments on the failings of the question, without the downvote, and a downvote if those comments are not addressed. Of course, questions which are excessively flippant or bad and don't show the intent to ask a reasonable question are the exception to this rule, but don't rush to "penalize" new users immediately just because they don't know how things work around here.

See my discussion of a specific case, here.

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    'don't dump on new users immediately because they don't know how things work around here.' That's not what I do. But I DV questions that generally speaking show no effort. Sadly, such questions often are written by new users. Tough luck. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:57
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    @Sockenpuppe: So, I'm saying you should give a new user the benefit of the doubt, that maybe they have made some effort but has not reported it, or even - will make more effort they have not already made and edit their question. And in the mean time, you would just make a comment saying the question doesn't show effort and will likely be downvoted if not edited.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:05
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    Yes, that's possible. But the number of questions that would require this treatment is so hight for popular tags that doing this is a full time job. It's best to remove bad questions as fast as possible before they swamp the site. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:07
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    @Sockenpuppe: Ok, so that's a valid counter-argument. It is indeed a trade-off between the kind of "niceness" I'm suggesting, and the speed of editorial work + speed of removal of bad questions. I'm arguing that we are too far to one end of that. But I don't discount your point of view, so +1.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:16
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    I don't vote for the benefit (or "punishment") of the poster; I vote for the benefit of others who chance upon the post later, to signal to those people whether the post is worth their time. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 12:54
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    @HereticMonkey: 1. I realize you don't intend to punish the user; but the user doesn't know that (plus, your motivation is not shared by everyone). 2. If you at least explain why you downvoted and how the question could be improved, it's already better. 3. You could wait with the signaling to future users, make the comment, and let the new user, hopefully, improve the post. Again, the important distinction here is new vs veteran users.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 12:59
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    Your answer, in bold, is accusing people of penalizing new users by downvoting immediately and moving on. And frankly these same arguments are made for requiring comments on downvotes, and that doesn't work out. Finally, we've just come out of an experiment where downvotes were not shown (sometimes after 0, sometimes after -1). Let's wait to see how that experiment pans out before we start jumping down people's throats for voting as they see fit... Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 13:39
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    @HereticMonkey: I am indeed a proponent of commenting on downvotes; a strict requirement is a bit harsh, but perhaps not when it comes to new users. It is indeed a good idea to consider the effects of such an experiment; however - what are the criteria for it having succeeded?
    – einpoklum
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 13:42
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    No idea. The experiment kind of just sprang up out of nowhere. Shog probably has more insight as to the criteria. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 13:45
  • Yes, that could go a long way towards reducing the friction with new users (one or more phases before actual voting). Commented Dec 30, 2019 at 19:15
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I tend to read it as 'This question does not show enough research effort

See this is a real problem, because just like with email, a very low percentage of readers will read a large article. Analogously, an email is scanned briefly by the majority of users and so is a message posted here on Stack Overflow.

There is little sense in writing reams of detail of events leading up to the question, in the initial question.

It is actually wrong for Stack Overflow to be instructing users to write long detailed initial posts of things you tried leading up to the original post.

The reason is the same reason you would not generally actually read a long email that you get from someone in its entirety.

What happens is that the skimmers of the post will not see what was written because the trees obscure the forest. This is how humans need to operate. We need to use brevity, for good reason. We need to be OK with that when other people use brevity, and not automatically start to make negative assumptions about the work ethic or whatever of the counterparty.

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    State the essence of what your question is about in the title, state the question briefly at the start of the body, then go into background and your research, and if it is neccessary for any reason (elaboration or long background/much research) re-state the question at the end. Thus everybody skimming it will get the essence immediately, but you won't be downvoted for lack of clarity and research. Commented Sep 17, 2015 at 15:38
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    It doesn't have to be linear. The inverted pyramid instead of the linear academic style from school can give you both brevity and sufficient detail when needed. Commented Dec 30, 2019 at 19:26

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