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I posted a question about something I was struggling to find an answer to. Later on, I eventually found the answer and proceeded to post the answer underneath my question.

How to make golang standardize unicode strings that have multiple ways to be encoded?

Interestingly, someone downvoted both the question and the answer. I guess I kind of assumed that the way the site worked is that the correct answer would be upvoted, not downvoted. I am also confused as to why the question was downvoted in the first place.

Anyway, so my question is, how often does the correct answer end up downvoted? (It feels to me that correct answers being downvoted would be an indication of some level of dysfunction on stack overflow)

P.S. I am more than happy to be corrected on my assertion that the correct answer is not correct, but I don't see how this could be the case.

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    Regarding the comments on your post on main, it's actually generally frowned upon to ask other users why they downvoted your post, and I would suggest that you not do that in the future. See this post (there are plenty of others) about why this is the case.
    – cigien
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 3:56
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    SO does not operate on correctness, it operates on usefulness (see tooltip if you don't believe me). It is not enough to be correct, your question/answer needs to be helpful to be considered of value here. Note that the above is said disregarding the merits of the Q&A in question, but it does not take an expert in Go to judge that both the question and answer fall into the category of "meh". Since the answer doesn't add anything on top of the blog article, it also falls into the category of "not very useful". Probably not worth a downvote, but not worth an upvote either. [1/2]
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 4:06
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    [2/2] Some have stronger beliefs, though, and will downvote anything that falls under the abovementioned categories. With the current influx of medium to low quality questions and answers, it is understandable that people can have a low tolerance for basic questions (especially of the "Is there? Yes, there is" type). P.s. Flimzy's downvote and justification is completely wrong and, frankly, is a misuse of the voting system, but be prepared to get more of that due to Meta Effect
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 4:14
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    Also, note that your question here on Meta is essentially unanswerable (it would be more honest of you to ask what you really want to know, that is, why would somebody downvote your question and answer) as this would require an analytical project of an immense scale.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 4:22
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    Thanks for all of your comments. I didn't realize that the voting system was based on usefulness rather than correctness. I guess I am used to thinking of peoples answers as being right or wrong. (Im fascinated by the idea, as it means we could probably have an incorrect answer with a higher score than the correct answer.) Anyway, no matter the case the whole experience felt quite negative, I don't need that in my life, im going to try and avoid asking questions on SO in the future. The site does seem great though. Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:05
  • "your question here on Meta is essentially unanswerable." Sorry to hear you feel that way. I would have thought that a question in the form of "How often does xyz happen" is quite specific and concrete. Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:08
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    "How often xyz" is specific and answerable only for certain values of "xyz". On the specific case of this question, is really vague and hard to answer.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:10
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    Regarding the linked question, seems alright to. But we cannot guess why other users may have found it downvote worthy. Since voting is anonymous, and ultimately an expression of a subjective opinion, that would require access to a mind reading device. Right now, the device is unavailable.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:13
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    The voting in the GO tag was discussed before: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/339273/…
    – rene
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:34
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    @yivi: After so many years I wonder if we've honestly run that statement to the ground. It was entertaining hyperbole at first, but as I start to understand where askers are coming from, it just seems condescending now.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:36
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    @yivi: Generally, even if someone is demanding answers from the horse's mouth (I really don't think all that many people are expecting us to read minds), I'd rather not take it at that kind of face value and I prefer weighing in whilst making it clear that I don't speak for those who actually voted. That doesn't mean we need to grasp at straws to try to rationalize every vote - we can always say we don't know and/or we disagree. Sometimes a second opinion is appreciated even if it's not always what the asker wants or the correct answer.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 6:44
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    Who decides on 'correct' answers? Anyway, more disturbing are the upvoted and accepted answers that are not just less-than-optimal, but are actually totally wrong and could never work reliably, ('multithreading' and 'sockets' tags - that means you:). Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 7:15
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    Consider also the time dimension. There's a window after a question is asked during which it attracts viewers due to its novelty. Once this window has closed, views come from people searching for solutions to a problem. It's the votes from this latter group that ultimately determine usefulness. Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 8:46
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    @MeganSpencer "have an incorrect answer with a higher score than the correct" - yes, sadly, this is possible (and happens from time to time). But, firstly, this is a flaw in any voting vote-based system (an incompetent leader can be easily voted in if they are popular) and, secondly, this does not mean correctness is not a part of helpfulness. It is rather a prerequisite for the latter. For example, link-only answers may be correct, but we do not allow them because their usefulness depends entirely on the link not being broken.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 10:48
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    @MeganSpencer "is quite specific and concrete" - unfortunately, this is only partially the case. Is it specific? Yes, no doubt about that. Is it concrete? No, because it depends on an obscure metric like "correctness". Atomic units of measurement we have access to are limited to "accepted", "upvoted", "downvoted", "negatively-scored", etc. "correct" is not a boolean stored in a database, but a complex metric that needs to be rigorously defined.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 10:55

1 Answer 1

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I can't speak for the votes as I don't know Go. I know a thing or two about Unicode normalization, except that link pertains to two distinct character code points that have the same glyph rather than the same character having two different runes.

But this does seem to be a material issue with the Go subcommunity here as evidenced by discussions dating back several years (HT rene); I know that the Stack Overflow team has very recently been looking into it, and shared their findings with us (the moderators). But since I don't even know the language, let alone the subcommunity, I haven't been getting myself involved. But I will share what I think of your question — that's what I'm here for.

Your question seems alright to me on first impression, but I don't know if it's considered incomplete or poorly researched by Go standards. So does your answer — and I've even looked through its revisions. Use a single method from a readily available, purpose-built package? Yeah, seems straightforward enough!

As others have mentioned, correctness isn't the only reason to decide whether to upvote or downvote an answer. But I'm quite struggling to figure out why so many people (proportionally speaking) think your question and answer were either incorrect, inadequate, low quality, or otherwise actively detrimental to the site.

Maybe they think this sort of thing is common knowledge not worth posting a Q&A in here for. I think that's reductive and unnecessary — we accept questions of all levels here provided they tick all the right boxes.

Alternatively, I could suggest that the one thing your question is missing is sharing what you've attempted to solve your problem, but realistically I wouldn't know where to even begin other than what you understand about a character having multiple runes... which you've already shared in your question.

Mostly, I agree with Oleg Valter's comments here, but I also understand why you've framed your question the way you have — because I've been there myself, a lot. These days I entertain myself by handwaving it as Tim losing his keys.

Now, comments like this:

I downvoted because of the comment asking about downvotes with no comments. Votes are anonymous. Asking for explanations is inappropriate.

are just petty as hell, a misuse of vote mechanics since votes are supposed to be based on the post and not its comments, and absolutely a contributing factor to the toxicity of the site. While I don't remember the last time I was this petty, I do know I've often commented along the lines of "votes are anonymous" and "asking for explanations is inappropriate" in the past. But then I realized I wasn't really doing anyone any favors by saying such things. I've lived pretty much my entire life surrounded by people who insist on defending their right of not owing me any explanations. And sure, no one is obligated to speak up, everyone is entitled to their right to remain silent (and in the case of Stack Overflow, anonymous), but when not a single soul will exercise even the slightest ounce of empathy and compassion and just explain to me what I did wrong or why things are the way they are, I'm worse off for it, and nothing improves for anyone. So I've learned to incorporate that empathy into Stack Overflow, and stopped leaving such comments and started instead commenting on my (down)votes where I think it matters, even though I'm again rightly under no obligation to do so. Many people have disagreed with the reasons I share for my downvotes, even acting in petty retaliation themselves, but what matters to me most is that I chose to be transparent about it for the sake of the reader.

And I'm sorry that, being a new contributor, no one has at least tried to let you know what they didn't like about your question and answer. (Sure, the "new contributor" tag doesn't appear under your user card, but you haven't been on the site for long and aren't used to the way things work, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't stick around for much longer.)

Having said all that, unfortunately I do agree with cigien's advice. Asking under your posts why they were downvoted generally doesn't go well. I recommend following that advice not because I want to silence you, but as a favor to you and your post.

This situation does come up fairly often on meta. I've been quite unhappy with it for the last 6 or 7 years. Sometimes I'll leave rambly answers like this — if I have the spoons for it anyway — but mostly, if I do weigh in, I usually focus on letting the author know what they might have missed out or what they could have improved, or if their post really isn't all that bad and I can't rationalize the votes however hard I try.

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    Why do we need to know the author of that comment? Better than leaving a comment asking why a post was downvoted might be a comment asking how the post could be improved (signalling a willingness to receive feedback, instead of just complaining about the "toxicity of the site"). Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 8:07
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    @Jeanne Dark: I've removed the name. A more constructive comment from the asker could've helped but it doesn't excuse downvoting and hitting back out of spite. I'm done putting all the blame on the asker. We need to be responsible for how we vote and how we respond to askers.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 8:26
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    I don't believe that a comment just asking on how to improve the post (without even mentioning (down)voting) would have caused a downvote. But it would have increased the chances of receiving more constructive feedback. Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 8:33
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    @Jeanne Dark: Right, that's why I said a constructive comment would've helped. But otherwise when someone complains about downvotes, and I respond by adding another downvote specifically to attack the author and even saying it straight to their face, that makes me worse than them, because I'm unequivocally acting in bad faith. Even if it's something I would've downvoted anyway for low quality or whatever, which would've at least counted as good faith and simply a manifestation of the meta effect.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 8:39
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    "but what matters to me most is that I chose to be transparent about it for the sake of the reader" That is great, but that transparency has too often caused more harm than good. It's one of those things where a few times is too many. Last time I tried to be transparent to a new contributor, I was called a dick and the account was eventually removed anyway. The way I see it, if "not a single soul will exercise even the slightest ounce of empathy and compassion and just explain (...)", that means the platform does not assist in protecting those who could offer that feedback.
    – E_net4
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 9:45
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    @E_net4 the downvoter: +1 I agree not enough is being done to protect us. We all need to safeguard ourselves from bad-faith actors. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. There are systems in place to discipline folks after the fact, but not much in the way of preventing it to begin with. In my case, the transparency is worth the occasional retort mostly because I'm pretty well-adjusted by now, but I understand that isn't the case for everyone. So I try to do my part where possible.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 9:49
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    @BoltClock "by handwaving it as Tim losing his keys" - well, yes, that certainly helps lighten up the mood a little :) Most of the time, though, from my experience, it is rather easy to identify the most likely reasons why the question/answer was downvoted, so letting the OP know about that can be beneficial. Of course, by that time it is usually too late, and they are not keen on reevaluating and improving their posts as they already think they are in a hostile environment largely due to a ridiculously bad onboarding experience with rainbows and ponies at the forefront.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 12:16
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    Do people vote to punish? Sadly, yes. "You shouldn't ask RTFM questions" - downvote. "You shouldn't answer RFTM questions" - downvote. Morally it's wrong because that is not what the voting system is intended for, but people have been given the freedom to vote according to their own devices, so... it's a sticky grenade, basically.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 7, 2021 at 10:23
  • Voting (with reputation points consequences and open for answers) ought to be deferred (as a system feature) until after a question has been vetted (quality, duplicate, completeness, etc.). As it is now, downvoting is being used for the vetting (if a question eventually ends up being deleted (for example, no answers), it was completely unnecessary downvotes). A question need not be on the public Internet until it has been vetted. Commented Apr 10, 2021 at 16:45

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