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Recently I asked this question, about a way to parse a string with batch to check if it is a valid IP address. In the body of the question I specified that I was searching for

a way to do this in Batch without external tools

My question received some upvotes and an answer, and after some time I contributed with my own answer that I had come up with independently.

Some time after that, the question was closed with the reason:

We don’t allow questions seeking recommendations for books, tools, software libraries, and more.

My question now is: how does this apply to my own question? I didn't ask for advice on external tools or for a "list of things", I just asked for a way to solve a specific problem.

I already have an answer so this isn't a problem for me in the short term, but I would like to understand what I did wrong to ask better questions the next time.

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    Maybe people misread your paragraph talking about the tools you were not asking for.
    – khelwood
    Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 20:10
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    Side note: asking for multiple languages is generally too broad which what that question probably should have been closed instead... VB.Net, C#, JavaScript, VBScript, Powershell, CMD + many command line tools (it would be even worse on Linux due to much broader set of tools available by default)... Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 20:39
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    I was sympathetic until I read your SO question. All the focus here on "without external tools" is an irrelevant distraction. You state "I just asked for a way to solve a specific problem", but you effectively asked for any solution that used a Windows-only approach ("How can I do this in Batch without using external tools?"). Although your problem was succinctly specified, that was still a very, very broad question, and (to me) it was clearly seeking recommendations. Added to that, there is no sign that you had made any effort to solve the problem yourself.
    – skomisa
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 1:35
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    @skomisa How can you say that I have not made any effort to solve the problem when the most upvoted answers was written by myself? Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 1:44
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    He didn't say that you didn't put in an effort. He said that "there is no sign that you had made any effort". No evidence ... in the question. This is an important distinction. People typically form a view on a question based on the evidence that they can see ... or the lack of evidence.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 1:58
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    @StephenC Isn't the fact that I self-answered evidence that I made effort to solve the problem? Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:01
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    @ThePirate42 What Stephen C just said. Yes, you certainly provided an upvoted answer, but my comment (and your meta post here) are both referring to your SO question which did not show any research effort.
    – skomisa
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:02
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    OK ... I take that back. He is wrong. There is clear evidence. Insisting that the evidence be in the Question is (IMO) pedantry. (Alternatively, this is an indication that a hypothetical person voting to close that question on the basis of "lack of research" is guilty of the same crime ...)
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:03
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    I am only referring to your "lack of research" argument. Nothing else. But yes I am saying that someone closing a question for lack of research should check to see tif the OP has answered. It makes perfect sense to me.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:26
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    @skomisa I understand the problem, my question definitely looks like a low effort question, but what should have I done differently? When I was posting the question I already knew the answer, there was no need from my point of view to include an attempt to a solution, because I was going to provide a full solution in an answer anyway. Regarding the fact I was seeking "any Windows-based solution", strictly internal commands in batch are relatively limited. External commands are usually considered part of the batch language as long as they are present by default in Windows. Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:30
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    (And I don't understand why it makes no sense to you. Why is it no sense for a reviewer to try to understand a question in context before voting to close it? I can understand you saying that it is too much work for the reviewer ... but the flip-side is that if the reviewer didn't want to do that work, then they shouldn't be voting to close. With power comes responsibility, etc. You don't have to vote at all.)
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 2:35
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    @skomisa There are some issues with your suggestions. 1) If the OP doesn't have those constraints, why should they state them? 2) That's strange. Why should the answer be posted immediately, or at all? That has nothing to do with closing the question. 3) Absolutely not. That's simply not how the Q&A format works. Mentioning the answer (or that one has been provided) in the question will be edited out. 4) Fine. Showing research effort is not bad, but it's also definitely not required.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 6:03
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    because online forums like Wikipedia and Stackoverflow are full of topicality trolls who get their jollies claiming this or that post is "off topic" or "doesn't follow guidelines," while never actually helping
    – Phlip
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 18:36
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    Too many people deciding what's wrong or right in this site, that's what is happening. This is not a Q&A site anymore, where people used to come to ask TECHNICAL questions expecting an answer without so many subjective requisites and opinions. Apparently there are more people dedicated to judge the quality of the questions, than answering them when possible. Coming to ask a question in this site should be by itself an effort to solve it. That's what Q&A sites are for. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 1:25
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    That doesn't really wash. The reviewer can always click on the original question link to see the context. I do it regularly when I am reviewing. I wouldn't say that it actively discouraged. Not actively encouraged would be a better description. (If the UI designers wanted to actively discourage reviewers from looking at the context, the link wouldn't be there at all!)
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 8:05

3 Answers 3

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Your question is asking how to do something without using external tools. As such, the closure as "seeking recommendations" is definitely incorrect, and I've voted to reopen it.

I can't really say why some users voted to close your question with that reason. I think it's just an honest mistake, which happens from time to time. The body of your question says:

Does a way to do this in Batch without external tools exist?

which seems clear enough to me. The grammar could certainly be improved, and in fact, another user has already edited it to say:

Is there a way to do this in Batch without using external tools?

which is definitely an improvement.


I don't really see a way to make this much clearer, but there are a lot of off-topic questions asked every day, and reviewers will sometimes spend less than 30 seconds evaluating a question that is as short as yours. They will make value judgements based on the appearance of the question, and keywords like "external tools" might have suggested to them that you were looking for external tools.

In case my guess is correct, i.e. users closed your question based on those keywords, one suggestion would be to make it even more explicit, by highlighting the text like this:

Is there a way to do this in Batch without using external tools?

or maybe like this:

Is there a way to do this in Batch without using external tools?

While this shouldn't really be necessary, there's no harm in trying to make it blatantly obvious that your question is on-topic.

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    As of now the question is reopened, but it accrued two close votes, anew. One for seeking recommendation. One for needed more clarity. I agree that neither one qualifies, and I am have a very, very quick trigger for close votes. There are many garbage questions constantly getting posted here, but this is not one of them. It's sad how Stackoverflow is becoming a dumpster fire. Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 22:37
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    @SamVarshavchik Honestly, once the question was reopened, I assumed that would be the end of that. I can understand the incorrect "Needs Focus" CV because as one comment suggests, it's being used as a proxy for "No effort", which is unfortunately quite common. I'm however, completely mystified by the "seeking recommendations" CV, and now I have to wonder whether I was being charitable by labeling those votes as honest mistakes. Yes, the whole thing is a bit sad.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 22:43
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    I think there's a middle ground between an honest mistake, and intentional mischief. I already described what it is: a dumpster fire. Neither one, nor the other. Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 22:53
  • @SamVarshavchik Oh yes, I didn't mean to imply there was any intentional mischief per se, just a general confusion, or misunderstanding. Your description of the situation as a "dumpster fire" is not a bad one at all.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 13, 2021 at 22:58
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    @cigien I'm obviously paraphrasing, but the OP's question was effectively asking for any Windows-based solution at all, as long as it didn't use external tools. That is a very broad request which is blatantly seeking recommendations. The question didn't impose any constraints on the solution, nor provide any evidence of research effort, which might have provided some focus. It was far too broad.
    – skomisa
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 1:54
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    @skomisa I'm not sure I follow. A question having multiple possible solutions doesn't automatically make it too broad. A question could reasonably have a dozen different answers, as quite a few "how-to" questions do. You also appear to be conflating lack of research effort with needing focus.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 5:58
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    So if multiple people vote to close, and each picks a different close reason, which is picked as the "official" close reason? Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 17:37
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    I'd argue against using bold formatting like that, I'd remove it almost every time I see it. Don't add formatting where proper sentence structuring to put emphasis would suffice. Leave the fancy formatting for headers or so, but please don't highlight words you find important, let alone if you do it for multiple words in every sentence, as I often see.
    – Adriaan
    Commented Feb 14, 2021 at 21:59
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    @SamVarshavchik: Regarding the "needs clarity" close-votes, I would like to point out that until recently, the question was asking to verify that an IP address is "valid" but with zero indication of what actually makes an IP address "valid" in the context of the OP's application. For example, do they consider Class E addresses valid? Class D? RFC 5737? RFC 7526? 6598? What about broadcast addresses? Do we also have to verify that the IP address is inside the local subnet? Do we have to check for duplicate IP addresses? In a now deleted comment, the OP even wrote that they themselves don't … Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 8:07
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    … know. They have now edited the question to provide a specification, and have provided the example 999.999.999.999 as an example of an IP address they consider acceptable, which honestly is not something I would have ever guessed from the original wording of the question. So, I would claim that until the recent clarification, the question was unclear, because there are many different interpretations of "valid IP address", in the wild (e.g. both Windows and macOS consider 1234567890 valid) but accepting 999.999.999.999 is not one of them. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 8:10
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    @JörgWMittag I'm sorry for that, I'm not an expert and at first I didn't thought that "valid IP addresses" could have a lot of interpretation. Next time I'll do more research, I promise. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 9:48
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I think the question was closed with "asking for recommendations" because:

  • There already is a linked question asking for a more comprehensive IP address verification (as far as I can tell, potentially an approach that would be acceptable for all applications needing to validate IP addresses), with answers, and
  • You are asking for a half-solution for your specific environment where you don't want to use the full solution for some reason.

Furthermore, as elaborated in the comments, you haven't clearly defined your problem (specifically IPv6 address validation), certainly not clearly enough for someone to provide an answer that would satisfy the stated requirements and be useful to others.

To summarize:

  • You are asking for a solution to your specific problem.
  • You don't want to spend time and effort to understand and apply solutions that already exist.
  • You don't clearly define your problem either, expecting answerers to either guess as to what you want or spend their time playing 20 questions with you to figure this out.

Many SO participants operate on the principle that their participation would be useful to the community at large, and not just to a single person who wants free consulting/development/programming. Participants like this might be the ones casting close votes on your question because they might believe that you should use the solutions already provided to you by the community to solve your particular problem yourself. "Asking for recommendations" is used as a proxy reason since "asking for free labor" isn't currently a close reason.

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    That question doesn't take IPv6 into consideration. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 14:37
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    You haven't defined your requirements with respect to IPv6 either, so nobody knows what you are looking for with respect to IPv6.
    – D. SM
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 14:38
  • I've written: "As a rule of thumb, a solution should at least be able to distinguish an error message from an address." Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 14:40
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    That is not a constructive requirement in the sense that, given that requirement, one can't construct a solution. For example, a function that returns false for "this is an error message" and true for all other input can be argued to satisfy your stated requirement.
    – D. SM
    Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 23:03
  • Originally the question only said that I wanted to "identify valid ip addresses". But some people in the comments pressured me to specify what I exactly meant by "valid ip addresses", since techincally there are multiple interpretations of that. Since I don't know much about IP and I don't have time to study all the history of IP standardization just for a stackoverflow question, I decided to specify that I didn't need exact validity, but just a way to check if something looks like an IP address or not. Commented Feb 17, 2021 at 12:50
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    @ThePirate42 "I don't have time to study all the history of IP standardization just for a stackoverflow question" – if you ask an Stack Overflow question just to promote your own solution, you better do take sufficient time to study what you are publishing as a solution. The point of self-answer Q&A is to publish solutions useful for others – which is pointless if it is not clear what problem your code solves. Commented Feb 17, 2021 at 13:16
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Requests for code are always off-topic.

The entire point of Stack Overflow is to find out why the code that you wrote isn't working, not to learn new algorithms. There is inexplicably no "gib me teh codez plz" reason to close a question, so we have to just pick the closest one.

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    Every single sentence of this answer is incorrect. 1) A request for code don't make a question off-topic. 2) I've learned plenty of new algorithms, and ways of doing things, on SO. In fact, debugging questions have probably been the least useful questions for me personally. 3) There's no "gib me teh codez plz" close reason, because that's not a reason to close a question at all. Please do not pick other close reasons as a substitute for this non-reason.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 3:02
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    Please read stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 3:05
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    Curious; I've "known" that requests for code have been off topic since I joined. I wonder what I misread that made me believe that (or if it used to be the case and now it isn't). Regardless, every single user with a gold [batch-file] tag should probably be made aware of this because that is not how we currently operate. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 5:39
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    I don't really know anything about the [batch-file] tag. Looking at the top scoring questions they pretty consistently appear to be "how-to" code requests, with no shown effort (as is the case with most tags). They are all old questions, so it's not the case that the rules changed; as far as I'm aware, code requests have never been off-topic (which is good, or we wouldn't have those valuable "how-to" canonicals).
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 7:05
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    Note that many users think that requests for code are off-topic, or at least that they should be, but I'm not aware of that sentiment being shared uniformly across gold badge holders in any particular tag. If you believe that's the case, maybe you should write a Meta post about it. It would be good to hear why this belief is so wide-spread in the [batch-file] tag, and see if there's actually consensus about that. Perhaps there are reasons that make that tag somewhat different than other tags, and code requests in that tag should be off-topic (though I doubt that very much).
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 7:05
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    Yes, with a small number of users, that could certainly be the case. That is unfortunate, and if you're up for it, you might want to indicate to them that there might be value in leaving "how-to" questions open. Of course, those questions need to be narrowly focused, and answerable, but if they are, then their just being "how-to" questions isn't actually a problem.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 7:45
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    I regularly reject code-writing-service questions. Yet, that is because they are requesting basically entire programs – they lack focus or details to be about a specific programming problem. Asking-for-code is merely a symptom, and admittedly it seems not useful to call that out when we could just point at the actual reason. A focused question that requires writing new code as an answer is perfectly fine. Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 8:31
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    @cigien Those who have been around long enough know that the site used to be for professional and enthusiasts programmers who could demonstrate a minimum of knowledge of the topic being discussed. This was in particular the policy for homework questions - no effort copy/paste dumps of homework have always been off-topic on SO since day 1. In the latter years, the site has embraced quantity over quality and has been in slow but steady decline since somewhere around 2014. Since library etc requests are explicitly off-topic too, then just exactly what kind of code requests are on-topic?
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 13:44
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    From the original "What questions can I ask here?" page of SO: "Questions asking for code must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Include attempted solutions, why they didn't work, and the expected results. See also: Stack Overflow question checklist." This was always there until the site started slowly rotting from 2014 and onward, the owners silently changing the focus towards more homework begging spam and away from a site for professional programmers. Programmers being people who already know how to do at least a bit of programming.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 15, 2021 at 13:46
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    @Lundin: Requests for a more clever / elegant / efficient / whatever way to do something can be on topic when the question demonstrates you do know how to do somehow, possibly in a slow / ugly / non-portable way. Questions in tags like simd are often like that, for example how to vectorize a given tricky problem using AVX, with the question showing a simple scalar loop. When the requested code would be trivial for any programmer / anyone who remotely knows the programming language, it becomes a bad question, especially when it's asking about specifics of one use-case. Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 1:55
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    @Lundin With regards to "no effort homework questions" being off-topic, I have been informed by a moderator that this was recently discussed among the mods, and the conclusion reached was that this was never the intent, and the wording suggesting that in the help-center is about to be removed (within 6-8 ..., as is the usual time-frame for these things). Any member of the mod-team can correct me if this is not actually the conclusion they have reached.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 2:33
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    Leaving the "homework" part aside for a moment, you appear to be claiming that the site used to require a "minimal understanding" from the OP. Looking at the vast majority of the canonicals on SO, I personally see no evidence of this. They are consistently "how do I do X" questions with no indication of any minimal understanding from the OP. Perhaps, and I'm just guessing here, there used to be an assumption of a certain minimal understanding on the OP's part? An assumption that no longer seems to be in effect, possibly due to the increasing number of homework questions that get asked here.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 2:33
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    @cigien Most of the respected moderators (and some of the staff) left the site one year ago after the "firing mods" disaster, so whatever the mods say is quite irrelevant, since they aren't necessarily a representation of the community here any longer. If the current ones truly wish to make the site even more homework friendly, I'd follow their puppet strings and not be surprised where I end up... Notably, moderators never had the authority to change site scope or policies and that's not a job they were elected to do either. SO staff however, can and will change things at a whim.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 7:33
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    @Lundin: I think cigien was talking about basic stuff like How do I undo the most recent local commits in Git? where the answer is git reset to the revision you want to reset to. Maybe version-control questions aren't the best example because devs often aren't experts at using the VCS they're forced to use, but if you look at the very first revision of that question it's just some random question with no sign of effort which could (should) have been answered by reading the docs. OTOH it's common enough to warrant a tutorial answer tailored to it. Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 11:15
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    @Lundin: It's not, but it's an example of the kind of apparently-low-effort question that was widely useful (something a lot of future readers probably benefited from) and simply hadn't been asked yet back then. For brazen code-requests, How do you reverse a string in place in C or C++? is one of the oldest [c] array questions, something most C coder know how to do. Over the years it's attracted 177 upvotes (mine one of them, from several years ago) despite zero effort from OP, and many answers from people trying their hand at this standard problem. Commented Feb 16, 2021 at 11:31

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