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tl;dr: What do we do with comments asking a user to fix their question, when "fixing their question" is impossible?

For context: https://stackoverflow.com/q/54316816/1079354 (10k only)

enter image description here

(I may be talking a lot about the question, but I really want to focus in on the comments.)

This question has a few glimmers of hope in which it could have been okay in some context:

  • It has an easily defined problem statement.
  • Code is accessible and made apparent for the actual problem.

However, the problem with this question is simple: it lacks clarity on what the actual problem really is. That is to say, we don't have enough context into the actual issue to determine if an answer we provide would be addressing a symptom, or addressing the actual problem. Therefore, we can't reasonably answer it, and closure is an appropriate moderation action on it.

As an analogy, think of someone asking you in person how to address a leak with their kitchen sink. You could suggest putting a bucket underneath the pipes, or tell them to cut the flow of water off to the sink so that it stops pouring water over the edge. Only one answer addresses a root cause, but the latter answer requires way more additional context.

It's easy to see how a question like this would be "dead-on-arrival". There's not much in the way of editing that would really satisfy us here (and if there is I'd love to know), since the real issue is one of, "Yeah, I see that this variable is out of scope, but...what else is going on? What are you not telling me?"

The crux of my issue is that the comments don't motivate salvation here.

enter image description here

I encounter this pattern a lot on the site, in which people who do mean well on Stack Overflow make a comment to encourage the OP to include more details, when doing so is simply a fool's errand. The solution for this problem (from the perspective of an expert) is simple: a variable is out of scope, and this is likely a typo which can be resolved without a question here.

I don't think we can stop the questions that come in like this; the only thing we can do is move swiftly to close them. What I'm concerned about is what we do with those comments. How do we address that?

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  • I'm not quite sure i understand what you're asking... What do we do with comments that are no longer needed? well, we... flag them as no longer needed. ? these questions fall under a pretty easily usable close reason.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 22:50
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    Hmm. I should be a bit more narrow then @KevinB; I'm looking more to the social aspect of it. How do I tell a commentator that they really shouldn't be bothering with a question like this? Should I tell them?
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 22:51
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    @Makoto: "Therefore, we can't reasonably answer it, and closure is an appropriate moderation action on it." I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of this question. There are plenty of questions about code where the thing the OP thinks is the problem is not actually the problem. That's just the nature of debugging. Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:02
  • @NicolBolas: The root of the symptom is that a variable is out of scope. That isn't the problem being posed by the OP. We could answer the "hey, you need to not redefine your variable" answer, but that's still a typo at worst and a dupe at best, which doesn't even begin to address any other downstream problems.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:05
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    @Makoto: Considering that the post lacks a complete example, all anyone can comment on is what is provided: a fragment of code. That fragment has a very clear and specific error which would prevent any code it is used within from working the way the OP desires. Without a more complete example, we can only assume that the code provided is in fact "the problem being posed by the OP". Since that code has a clear bug in it, I don't see what's wrong with bringing that up. Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:08
  • Suggestion: I think your TL;DR would make a better title, given your emphasis on those quoted comments in your own comments here.
    – jscs
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:08
  • Titles are hard @JoshCaswell. I'll consider it when I get back in.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:12
  • "think of someone asking you in person how to address a leak with their kitchen sink. You could suggest putting a bucket underneath the pipes, or tell them to cut the flow of water off to the sink so that it stops pouring water over the edge" - You realise neither of your answers actually provide a solution to OPs problem though (repairing the leak). Not sure if this is indicative of your underlying thinking on questions and answers or just a problem with the analogy! Commented Jan 24, 2019 at 11:36

2 Answers 2

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You have determined that this question is so far gone that it's not salvageable, and you don't think that it's worth your time to try to help the author fix it. That's great. You've made your call, you can go on to find another question that's worth your time to interact with.

Other people may not agree. They apparently think that the question and/or its author aren't beyond hope, that they can help the author understand why their question is lacking and how to correctly approach their problem. They may or may not be correct in that determination, but either way, it's their own time to spend; if they want to spend it trying to fix that post, rather than one that you think is more salvageable, it's their choice.

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    I agree on the surface, but this decision has a side-effect: now the site has an issue with retention and "quality". The users who make these comments in a vain effort to help an OP like this allow outside observers to paint us with any brush they wish to select based on how they interpret those comments. It may be impossible to stop people from commenting on crap questions, but it's not a problem that is just ignorable, at least in my eyes.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 22:53
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    @Makoto You think that outside observers will have an improved view of the site if people are prevented from helping people improve their questions? One of the most vocal and impassioned complaints from those people is that they don't like it when posts are downvoted or closed without personalized comments explaining what they did wrong and how they can fix the posts. You're literally trying to prevent people from doing exactly what the people you're trying to appease are asking for.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:02
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    It isn't like any of those comments have explained why the question was closed, either. I do see where you're coming from, though.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:04
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    @Makoto They didn't explain specifically why the question is closed, no, but what they did do was ask leading questions which help the reader understand what's missing (they can come to the fairly obvious conclusion that the information will be important to other readers without it being spelled out). But more importantly what the comments say is what they need to add to improve the post, which is way more useful than why the post is currently bad.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:07
  • People are teaching the user how to ask a good question. The question can always be closed if OP doesn't improve it. I'm not sure why some people feel it necessary to go after people who engage in this; I understand the position that you shouldn't answer until the question is reasonable but if I think a question has potential I should be able to help the OP make it into a reasonable question.
    – Elin
    Commented Jan 23, 2019 at 10:41
  • I’d go even further: not only is the question salvageable, it’s almost fine as it is, and even though the question is obviously missing details I’m confident that I could write a helpful answer in its current form. Furthermore, some of the comments also correctly diagnosed the issue. Commented Jan 24, 2019 at 10:10
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If you come across a question which you personally classify as dead on arrival, it is probably best to downvote it, close vote it, and move on. That is really all you can do with the question itself.

As for the the other aspect you describe, the comments... If you feel the need to comment in an attempt to improve the post, then by all means do so. However, I don't think it is productive to stop others from doing so at all; so long as the other comments were valid.

Even if the post has absolutely no chance of ever surviving, some of those comments may at the very least help the person asking by providing insights into why the post was removed and also by providing guidance in how to move forward with a more productive post in the future.

So long as comments are scoped and respectful, there is no need to prevent them or chastise those who post them solely because the question itself is going to be removed. If you see comments which are not respectful or on topic being posted on questions which are going to be removed, then flag them.

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  • No flag exists for "All this comment does is make the OP do a bunch of work which is a waste of time". Respectful is a bit debatable; in the heat of the moment when reviewing that post I didn't exactly agree that the comments were respectful. It felt more like they were fishing for an excuse to not answer, and none was required there. Again, you're likely right on the surface but I feel like this still needs to be talked about more.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:00
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    @Makoto You think that it's not useful to teach someone how to approach problems, how to think about what their problem really is, how to effectively communicate what their problem is to others, etc. Other people think that it is useful to teach those skills to people, even if their question is still bad due to poor research, or will at best be a duplicate, or whatever.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:04
  • @Servy: It isn't useful when the OP elects to delete their own question a few minutes after seeing that it's closed. The message intended for the OP is permanently lost and I'm not sold on the fact that how it was communicated to them was ever going to get them to buy into the fact that they do need to do their own research before posing a question here.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:07
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    @Makoto - I don't think that any of the comments were attempting to waste the OP's time. Comment flags have become a little more strict lately. Whether you agree or disagree with their use is a matter of opinion, which is fully up to you. That said, asking "What's the question/problem?" doesn't exactly seem too genuine in wanting to help; it kind of comes across as condescending. Overall, one comment there was perhaps borderline, and that is a byproduct of posts which are about to be removed sometimes, but they were certainly far more mild than they have been in the past.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:08
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    @Makoto I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that the commentors were right. It's your opinion that that's not a valuable use of your time. It's their opinion that it is a valuable use of their time. You each have the right to decide how to use your own time. You don't get to tell them what is or is not worth their time, they don't get to tell you what is or is not worth your time.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:09
  • @Servy: Fair, but I'm more or less motivating a discussion around the functionality and intent of comments. I main steadfast in that my opinion is that there's little use in this functionality to provide clarifying questions or guidelines for a question which already has no chance of survival on the site.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 23:17
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    @Makoto And I maintain steadfast in saying that it is. And lots of people have shared their opinion that it is useful. Just ignoring all of that and saying that because you don't want to do it no one should be allowed to, for no other reason that that you're unwilling to accept other's opinions, is not a very compelling case for such a radical change.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 23, 2019 at 3:11

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