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OK, after days of fighting back against the blog allegations etc, and listening to various possible solutions for the problem of real/perceived 'unwelcome/rude/hostile' comments and downvotes directed against questions from new accounts, (note careful choice of words). I have come to these conclusions:

The problem cannot be solved across the SO site because it's ineherent in site operation.

The problem cannot be minimised across the SO site because it cannot be measured.

Reduced to it's essentials, the 'unwelcome comment' issue often boils down to this:

  • The OP posts a question.

  • The OP does not get an answer,

  • That must be someone else's fault.

  • If one userXXXX has commented something, anything, that's the only name in front of them.

  • It must therefore be the fault of userXXXX.

It's illogical syllogism, but that's what happens in so many cases.

It does not matter how hard you try to 'be nice' in your comments - all that matters is that the OP did not get their answer, and you commented, so it's your fault.

The only effective difference between 'Use your debugger', or several friendly sentences explaining nicely that the OP needs to take steps to reveal more about their bug, is that the latter takes more thought and more typing. The first may be described as short/unhelpful/hostle, the second perhaps as too patronizing. Doesn't matter to the OP because both become just targets as soon as the OP realizes that they have no answer.

So, I have developed a strategy for minimizing the effects on one set of users: user-moderators.

Don't comment at all, ever, on a post from any user with displayed rep <50. If the question is bad, just down/close vote it, (or flag it, of course, if it's spam/whatever).

This solves the following problems for new accounts:

  • Real hostile comments: they cannot happen.

  • Perceived hostile comments: they cannot exist.

  • Complaints about canned comments: there cannot be any.

  • Street-fights over downvoting: cannot happen because the OP cannot see who downvoted.

  • Time/money spent on developing mitigation measures, eg. mentoring etc: not required.

  • Side-effects from mitigation measures: there are no mitigation measures.

  • External perception: non-members cannot see any 'unwelcome' comments.

  • Implementation delay: none.

  • Meta fights over 'rude and abusive' treatment: stop.

  • Per-question cost: reduced - no time spent commenting.

  • Site-wide cost: none, no extra software required.

  • Chances of getting suspended for bad comments: none.

  • Effect on good question handling: more time available to spend on it.

  • Potential for fraudulent use: none

  • Effect on skilled users joining to answer questions - none.

  • Opt-out: inherent, since it's a voluntary measure.

  • Chance of comments appearing on cherry-picking blogs/tweets: none.

Downsides?

  • It's not then possible to ask the OP for clarification - a big issue, for sure.

  • Still get moans about no comments on downvotes. No change there.

  • Users will have to read the help/FAQ/rules/policy/tour and figure out for themseves what went wrong, instead of having someone else copy/link the relevant section for them.

  • Has no effect on the racism/sexism (zero*anything is still zero).

  • Is effectively user-profiling, something I have never liked. Still, at least it's not profiling based on sex/race/colour/religion/age/whatever.

  • Requires willpower to not comment a 'quick answer' sometimes, or when the OP comments 'what did I do wrong?' I suggest no exceptions, ever.

  • I lose the ability to drop in a quick answer as a comment, as I have done so many times. I will miss that.

It's sad that it's come to considering such measures, but it seems I don't have any choice:(

What would be even better would be if all those users who have complained about bad treatment of 'new users' could be auto-mailed the link to '<50' user questions with 3 or more downvotes. They could then comment and explain the rules, or what is missing, or whatever as, I presume, they would wish to.

I doubt that would happen, after all, helping new users, and the massive aggravation, directly and on meta, that come with it, always seems to be a task for 'someone else', rather than the the one complaining.

With this plan, I can ensure that, at least, I can avoid it being a job for me, and avoid all the unwanted meta hassle that goes with it.

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    Having run across comments from you over the past few days, I'm concerned that this suggestion isn't made in good faith. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:42
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    @GGMG not in good faith? I've implemented it, as of now. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:53
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    @GGMG if you think this is not in good faith, you should have seen my alternative solution, one that involved compiler-style canned comments, eg: 'Error #08, missingErrorMessages detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote'. Any user who objected could then be shown as being inherently unable to handle the hostility of the tools used to develop software anyway:) Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:01
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    Although I like the idea to some extent, it comes down to taking the baby with the bath water. What about requests for clarifications? And what about the (potentially small number of) new users who can actually take constructive criticism?
    – E_net4
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:03
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    I was tempted, but it would not work. External non-members, those who think that software is developed by a few genuis, geeky kids, and not by really hard work with the debugger and logger, would not understand. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:03
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    @E_net4 yup, the baby drowns, but I stay afloat. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:04
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    Voting to close because these comments clearly show you're not interested in constructively discussing this. You've made your choice and you're lashing out at anybody attempting to calmly explain why your behavior could potentially be damaging to the community. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:06
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    @GGMG it's up to you. I'm no longer going to comment on any question from a user with less than 50 rep, for the reasons I have given. How can my behaviour be damaging to the community when I have just taken steps to prevent it? Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:12
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    I've been told,. over, and over, again not to be hones.. forthrigh.. unwelcoming and hostile to posters with new accounts. I have taken steps to ensure that does not happen. How could anyone be unhappy about that? It's not like I'm forcing this measure on anyone else. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:15
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    'you're not interested in constructively discussing this' what do you think I've been doing on meta since that blog came out? Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:16
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    @GGMG OIC. How should I have phrased it? I could add 'Please discuss and comment' at the end. but it had a 'discussion' tag anyway, so I assumed that was enough. If there are any points I missed, I'll gladly add them. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:35
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    This post seems to be an odd reaction to something that hasn't actually happened. There's been a blog post, and a lot of meta discussion. But no new actual rules have come about because of it. No changes to the site as of yet. We've not been told to actually do anything, and no site policies have changed because of it. So what's the point of changing how we behave based on a pile of words? Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:39
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    @MartinJames For what it's worth, you lost me on "yup, the baby drowns, but I stay afloat." and "it's not for eveyone, but is seem that I'm the one with the cancer, so I'm taking the treatment." I don't believe these are an invitation to critiques to something you'd honestly like our opinion on. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:43
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    Funny, but maybe we should wait a bit and see what actually happens before we start trolling? I think it's still possible to change things... don't know if Makoto will take you seriously the next time ;)
    – Oleg
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 20:26
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    Well, something must be done. This is something, so I must do this;) I ts is obvius that there is one huge downside, in that I can no longer ask for clarification, but even that ccould be taken as unwelcoming. I;ll stick to it, and see what happens. I'll try to keep a note of questions that I would have commented on, and see. TBH, having seen some of the other suggestions, like 'hiding' downvotes on new account questions, (this is called 'lying'), I'm happy with this, for now. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 22:45

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The fatal flaw to this approach is that comments are still useful in that they allow us to ask questions of the OP, and allow us to gain insightful feedback to what their actual question is. By ignoring this aspect of comments, we lose that power, and I'm not sold yet that this juice is worth the squeeze.

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    It's flaw, as I have acknowledged. Whether it's fatal, or not... anyway, I have implemented it. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:50
  • Which is kind of drives the point that we, as SO, cannot do anything in that regard, because, it is simply a societal problem that has more history than our ages summed up. If SO wants to do something, it has to be outside of SO. In other words, even if there was a problem, it's outside SO power to do anything about it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:50
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    I've become more and more convinced that many posters want individual, attributable comments for downvotes so that they can object to them, no matter what the content, or intent, of the commenter. So, no comments means no fights means no meta flogging means no hassle. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:56
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    @MartinJames: I understand your rationale and I actually like the philosophy behind it, but this feels like an overzealous chemo session in which we attack the "bad cells" of what we perceive to be bad on Stack Overflow, and at the same time we kill off what can be good and useful. Comments are a double-edged sword and are one of the most common symptoms of friction on the site. They can also do a lot of good in that they can help someone clarify what it is they're asking. Irradiating them altogether for low-rep users is not going to solve what we want it to solve.
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:06
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    @Makoto it's not for eveyone, but is seem that I'm the one with the cancer, so I'm taking the treatment. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:07
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    I've been taking a lot of rads for years now. So, I have erected a biological shield. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 19:08
  • The problem (imho) is that the intent of question comments is to clarify, which is a narrow purpose, but the UI presented to do that is just a gaping hole through which all sorts of rudeness and snark rushes through. I wish there were some UI paradigm that allowed us to help clarify questions with the asker that didn't give every yahoo a wide open text box in which to blurt whatever is on their mind.
    – joran
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 20:01
  • @joran: That's the chief deficiency I see with comments, too. If this proposal were more narrow in that it limits what kind of comments would be postable, then this would be decent; since it doesn't, it attempts to cripple a relatively useful feature.
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 20:07
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    @Makoto since even binary/cardinal downvotes are seen as unwelcome by some, I am no longer happy with commenting anything on new accounts. Maybe things will change. Maybe we will get anonymous-except-to-mods links to those 'se' domain help pages, for when it is appropriate. We'll see what happens. Since my new policy is a voluntary action, I can rescind it at any time if something else better comes along. Until then, I'm not commenting, at all, on questions from new accounts with less than 50 rep. I'm not sure it's good for the OP's, but it's good for me: no hassle! Commented May 1, 2018 at 13:00

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