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My inquiry is regarding this deleted post: Why Use AngularJS instead of jQuery

It has nearly 90k views and has a lot of votes both on the question and my answer. I do recognize that the post is not a fit for the format of Stack Overflow, but it is a relevant and frequent question for many developers.

From looking up the reasons for deletion, I think the reason behind deleting this post is that it is considered "primarily opinion based". I find that to be a misconception. It is slightly opinion based and mostly circumstantial. I updated my answer to demonstrate that further. Perhaps an update to the question and my answer could make this more clear - there are definite, non-opinion based reasons to use Angular rather than jQuery, which are determined by the needs of the circumstance. I believe this post has helped many people determine the value and approach of each and apply it to their own circumstance.

I have seen many locked posts which are helpful, though off-topic. Those posts lead me to think that perhaps the post in question should have been locked rather than deleted, but further reading about locked posts suggests that it shouldn't be locked because it isn't causing problems.

Overall, I'm not sure what to think. It's hard to imagine we would want to ditch a helpful post just because it's not a perfect fit (arguably) and there seems to be inconsistent handling of these cases, such as Why is Git better than Subversion?

I'd like to see this Q/A undeleted, but locked, or maybe even improved and reopened if appropriate. I believe it is a useful post for the community.

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  • 20
    Do note that locking a post also means that it cannot be updated. Your answer should really be posted to a personal blog. Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 18:40
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    What about integrating the answers into the relevant tag wikis, if these are that relevant, making up a basic FAQ? Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 18:40
  • 10
    Note that the question is also certainly too broad.
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 18:41
  • 29
    My only issue with putting a historical lock on that question is that it's not a historical question. It was only asked a year ago. Way after posting guidelines had changed to make it off-topic. It never should have remained open to begin with.
    – Bill the Lizard Mod
    Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 18:52
  • 3
    And it is back... Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 19:02
  • 19
    I agree with @Bill - it's not historical, and I think leaving something like this undeleted just encourages users to continue creating content that isn't acceptable for our site then play the "it's useful to a lot of people" card down the road. This question was quickly closed shortly after you answered it, as it should be closed. It should have been deleted much more quickly after that.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 19:06
  • 1
    I did some more searching and I think I understand now. At the time some posts were created, the rules/expectations were different, so "locking" a post is a way to say that the conditions those were posted under are no longer valid. That isn't immediately made clear by "historical significance". Since the post is not deleted again (for now), would it be reasonable if I edit the question and answer to tone down the subjectivity and detail the question a bit more so it's less broad? @Servy
    – m59
    Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 19:17
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    @BilltheLizard Then maybe the historical lock should be renamed to "please stop deleting this" or similar.
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 24, 2014 at 19:22
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    To those who re-opened the question, isn't "What does AngularJS do better than jQuery?" too broad, as already mentioned by servy..? Are these kind of questions on-topic..?
    – T J
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 8:41
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    @Trilarion it is deleted, only user with > 10k rep can see it.
    – Omar
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 13:12
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    @m59 I think you're forgetting the fact the the answer became what it is over a period of months (dec '13 - nov '14)- while the question was closed. It took you an year to arrive at this. And even after an year you think the answer still needs improvement..? That's the kind of too broad question for me.
    – T J
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 18:10
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    @animuson I disagree, at least in the C and C++ tags bad questions get dispatched pretty quickly(in general) sometimes questions that don't fit get through and end up doing well and gathering awesome answers. Deleting these out of a search for purity does not make SO a better place. I downvote, close and delete awful stuff all the time but I think sometimes we have to be a bit more pragmatic about these things. Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:03
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    If the answer is indeed awesome one should be able to find a question that is ok on SO and asks for directly this answer. If the answer is too broad maybe it can be divided, however often great questions and answers are a bit broader than the average specific problem. I cannot see the answer so someone else has to do it but please do it, Invent a question fitting a) the answer, b) SO and c) some/most of the keywords of the original question. I guess this can be managed somehow. Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 8:35
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    IMHO, I think such questions are useful and germane, and it doesn't seem to help anybody to delete them, especially if search engines still "remembered" them and diverted users to them. Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 18:57
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    Some of the SOs best content is off-topic, and some of the worst content is on-topic. Frown on it, discourage it, put it on hold, but delete it? I think we can make exceptions for exceptional content. Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 10:00

4 Answers 4

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These types of questions shouldn't be encouraged

These types of questions, "why use x instead of y" are not particularly useful to Stack Overflow. They tend to end up being non constructive critiques, meme responses, or mostly speculation. On occasion they have a useful answer but are so isolated that it doesn't matter if they are removed.

This question has clearly been well received

I am conflicted with this question in particular though. While the title invites a sort of fanboy throwdown, the content of the actual post is rather sophisticated. The title may be slightly misleading, but the ability for it to be searched for is clearly there (it is at 89k views at the moment).

This particular question has momentum

Factor in that it has +160 net votes and it is at least worth considering whether or not that question has value. Looking at all of the questions in the same +160 vote range, this one is clearly one of the newer ones (they are mostly from 08-10). That means it has momentum.

This question is sand, the answer is the pearl

Incoming questions are a universal constant, all around us in countless billions. But answers — truly brilliant, amazing, correct answers — are as rare as pearls. Thus, questions are merely the sand that produces the pearl. -Jeff Atwood

While this type of question is not encouraged, this type of answer is. It is the answer which holds the value here, and simply, blindly, with torch in hand burning it down because of an overly broad phrased question seems to be a little hasty.

I don't think this question should be an example for other questions, but at the same time, I don't think this answer should be removed because it has proven value.

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    Can we find a better question to attach the answer to? Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 0:28
  • Well, thanks for the kind words =D I'm wondering if it would be acceptable to edit the question/title to be more appropriate. Unfortunately, the OP is not a frequent visitor.
    – m59
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 0:47
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    @m59 be bold, do an Atwoodian transformation. Given that you are the only person to answer the question, it is an excellent candidate for you to convert the question (and tweak your answer to match) into one that can and should be reopened. That the OP isn't active anymore makes this all the easier of a process to do. The question isn't "owned" by the OP - its owned by the community. If you can make it into a good question, great.
    – user289086
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 2:20
  • @MichaelT Someone updated the title and I made some changes. I'd like to give it another revision when I feel less brain-fried as well. I think it's acceptable now.
    – m59
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 2:37
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    "This question has clearly been well received" <- this could be said about a great number of opinionated/too broad questions. Whenever a new question pops up, opinionated questions gather more upvotes than questions that aren't. I don't think that's a fair way to judge whether or not it belongs on SO.
    – cimmanon
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 11:50
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    I think editing the question to fit the answer is the right way to go here. Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 12:18
  • What a riot. It's apparently just going to be deleted and undeleted for the rest of our days. Considering people keep voting to undelete and that the votes here show that more are in favor of keeping it, I don't know why it can't just be left alone. It's interesting that there's such a divide of opinion.
    – m59
    Commented Mar 1, 2015 at 6:28
  • @m59 - I would suggest you edit some of the text from this answer into the top of your post here and then link to this meta disccusion in the main question on SO in a comment.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 2, 2015 at 15:34
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That is a horrible question for Stack Overflow. It is completely subjective, it discusses X vs Y and not solving a specific problem. There actually is a correct version of it discussing the shift from jQuery to Angular in methodology and mindset - this is not that question.

Locking it would make things even worse as both Angular and jQuery are evolving and the answer will get outdated fast. Not to mention it is comparing apples (a library) to oranges (a full blown framework that does a million other things as well).

These sort of questions are a constant source of misinformation. They're always too broad, opinion based, discuss off topics and more. Take your answer for example, here are some things it debates:

  • Imperative vs declarative.
  • What a framework is, framework vs library.
  • What dependency injection is.
  • Claim that "Google says so is enough" and appeals to authority.
  • False claims that frameworks provide security.

Overall, it's a very nice vote bait for Angular fans but it does not produce any useful information for developers facing a specific programming problem. It has room in blogs or quora - but certainly not in StackOverflow.

To sum it up:

  • It makes it seem OK to ask completely subjective questions.
  • It is completely opinion based.
  • It is way too broad to discuss seriously.

We should not tolerate these posts in Stack Overflow. I appreciate your effort in writing an answer and I know it sucks to have your contribution deleted but please - for the greater good and for the community's best interests - let it die.


Here are some red flags:

  • As reason to use Angular "When it comes to technology, "Google says so" is enough for me. They've earned that."
  • Same: "Misko Hevery is a better developer than you. Probably.. Yes, I'm claiming that you should at least consider using Angular"
  • ". You can write bad Angular code, but it's much more difficult to do so, because Angular will fight you about it."
  • Angular promotes all code being modular, reusable, and easily testable"
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    While we discussed this elsewhere, just for completeness - two of those "red flags" were just a bit of personality from me, and appeal to authority was exactly my intent. You're suggesting to people that they trust your authority by writing this post. You have appropriate credentials such that your input should be considered. That also doesn't meant something is an appeal to authority just because you use your authority to say so ;D
    – m59
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 23:08
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there are definite, non-opinion based reasons to use Angular rather than jQuery

Then the question should have been

When to use AngularJS instead of jQuery

WHEN, not WHY

or

What does AngularJS do better than jQuery?

Ditto for Git vs Subversion

The question title as written is highly argumentative. (So I improved it)

Also, this is the sort of Q&A pair that the Reversal badge seems made for. I don't understand how a question like this got upvotes as recently as last year, without the redeeming value of the answer.

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    The title change definitely helps. As I have commented, I wonder if it's acceptable to edit (maybe greatly) the question as well. The OP doesn't log in often.
    – m59
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 2:05
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    @m59: Go for it. You can't help but improve it; right now it is a delete-vote magnet.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 2:07
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    Done, and I think it definitely helps. More can probably be done; I'm not feeling all that journalistic at the moment. Thanks for the advice!!
    – m59
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 2:14
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    None of your proposed changes make the question any less opinion based, or any less broad.
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 18:59
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    @Servy: While advantages and disadvantages can be subjective, they can also be very factual, and the existing answer appears to be. The really opinion-based part is whether the pros outweigh the cons, and the last title option takes that value judgement away and only looks at advantages/disadvantages. Remember that opinion-based isn't a problem by itself, either; SO answers often need expert opinions. It's the "do not enter here without your flame-retardant suit" vibe accompanying the original title that was especially problematic.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:06
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    @BenVoig One could list differences between A and B as a factual, non-subjective question. Whether those differences are advantages or disadvantages are subjective. When a particular tool should be used, based on its perceived advantages and disadvantages is even more subjective. And the creation of a list of differences, while not subjective, is going to be Too Broad.
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:08
  • @Servy: "What is X better at than Y?" is actually less broad than a list of differences, because it's enough to identify "The goal of the X project is to do Z really well. On the other hand the focus of Y is C." You don't have to find every conceivable application that one or the other would do well. The fact that the answer goes on to explain that "You can still do Z with Y, but it gets really messy" is bonus.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:13
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    @BenVoigt You're right. When is X better than Y is quite a bit less broad than asking for a list of differences. The point is that no matter how you phrase the question it is either too broad, opinion based, or both. It's never neither of the two. If you ask for an entire collection of all relevant facts its too much information, or Too Broad. If you ask people to leave out the facts and just give their opinion instead of the facts, then it's opinion based. In neither case is it a specific, objective question.
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:15
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    "there are definite, non-opinion based reasons to use Angular rather than jQuery" <- this might be the case, but "which is better, A or B?" type questions typically attract spam, which is why we do not allow them. see: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/251328/… and meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/277276/…
    – cimmanon
    Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 2:30
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    Angular and jQuery adopt different, non-obvious approaches. There are non-opinion based ways to answer this question, as the answer clearly demonstrates. In it's original form it's not so good. In it's edited format I see no problem with it. Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 10:10
-1

Both the question and the answer are terrible. Popularity is no excuse, else this place would be Reddit.

2
  • BOOM as they say.
    – Almo
    Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 16:16
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    None of us can see that since it's been deleted. This is like Groundhog Day. It should be preserved somewhere so we can understand how the question and answer were terrible.
    – smci
    Commented Mar 3, 2015 at 2:52

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