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Here's where you can find the full details and application. But if you hate clicking:

Requirements

If you're fluent in Spanish and you're reading this, you likely have at least 75% of the things we're looking for for this role:

  1. Fluency in English and Spanish (native-level writing in Spanish)
  2. Enough programming experience or training to be the only moderator / company liaison to the community on a Spanish-language Stack Overflow (at least at first)
  3. Experience using Stack Exchange sites (huge rep is not required, but we want someone who gets and loves the system.)
  4. Comfort owning and overseeing a multi-step plan. International site rollouts involve a fair bit of planning, and each one is different. You'd be responsible (with help from a senior CM) for establishing and overseeing execution of a rollout plan.

What we generally look for in Community Manager candidates:

  • Very strong writing skills - you'll need to articulate complex ideas in clear, compelling ways. In the beginning, you will be the sole guiding voice of the company. The community will help decide what it's going to be, but you'll need to help articulate what they should consider, initial guidelines, etc.
  • Moderation / conflict resolution - despite our best efforts, not everyone on the internet always agrees. Part of the job is helping to recognize how to handle conflicts in ways that may not have a winner, but let both parties get back to doing what they came for - helping increase programming knowledge.
  • Understanding of community dynamics and what motivates people to donate their time on sites like ours
  • Extremely self-motivated with strong ability to prioritize. We ask CMs to help figure out what to do, not just to do it. And many of us work remotely.

Note that the role is not going to be limited to covering a future Spanish-language site. We're hiring someone who will function like our current CMs do now, but will be able to be the primary Spanish language rep for the Community Team when we are ready to roll out Spanish site(s) in the future.

How many of these are you planning to roll out, anyway?

This post lays out why we're launching non-English sites. We're extremely pleased with the success of Stack Overflow em Português - it's serving a community that mostly wasn't able to be as active on SO. But we greatly value centralized knowledge, so we're not looking to hit every language - many seem well served on SO, and being all together when possible is better for everyone.

In the interest of full transparency, here are the only languages we're committed to:

  • Portuguese (live)
  • Japanese (in progress)
  • Spanish
  • Russian

There are probably another 4-6 that clearly merit consideration, but we're going to limit our current outlook to these four, and see what we learn.

Since I wrote too many words, and may have made you scroll the action links off the page:

Here's where you can find the full details and application.

Editorial note:

I'm purging the comments here, because once again they've gotten super-noisy and I'm concerned some of them are discouraging folks from posting answers. Fortunately, most of the more insightful comments have already been superseded by answers, but for the sake of future readers here are some quick notes:

  • This post is on meta because we want to be open to feedback. That's why there's a tag below it. Feel free to discuss any part of it - just be polite, and try to do your research first. In particular, if you have questions/concerns about the job, raise them in an answer. Yes, questions on meta are a bit different - that's by-design.
  • This post is on this meta because a significant chunk of the folks who want this site are already on SO, and want a place where they can bring even more people into the fold.
  • Yes, it's a full-time job, and you can work from wherever you want as long as it has internet access.
  • No, I'm not worried about posts like this destroying the purity of meta. Meta is a chimera, a terrifying abomination - you gotta just make the most of it.

-Shog9

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    A bit off-topic, but why was Portuguese the first language chosen for localization? And now Spanish (a very similar language) is second? Did you see metrics that suggested Portuguese was the 2nd most used language after English by SO users? Or did you just draw from a hat, and the choice could have easily been Spanish first, or Mandarin, or Russian, or German, or Italian, or French, or British English (hue hue)? I am just curious.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 15:19
  • 4
    @TylerH, we were mostly looking at the languages that had the most total devs who we thought might NOT be willing/able to participate in English, but might be excited to in their native language. Within that list, we wanted to start with language that uses the same alphabet, to make initial localization easier. That made Portuguese a good fit.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 15:59
  • 2
    This may be a bit late but shouldn't "written skills" be "writing skills"?
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 21:48
  • 16
    @renan, I never said I met the requirements. Sigh.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 22:19
  • 1
    @Jaydles Is there any more information available about the Japanese site? I don't see anything on Area 51 and I'm curious about it. It would be nice to be able to follow the progress. Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 22:22
  • 1
    @ThisSuitIsBlackNot, good timing. Jmac, the CM "Warden of the East" was just talking to the team about the best place to share progress on getting the site ready. I think he'll probably create a discussion on A51 for now.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 1:41
  • 1
    @ThisSuitIsBlackNot As Jaydles said, I'm looking in to how to do stuff without breaking stuff and still letting you know. I will ping you with details once I get it set up.
    – jmac Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 1:44
  • 2
    How about Chinese? Is that a possibility? Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:23
  • 1
    @AveMaleficum, yes, they're squarely in the "next few" category. Which is to say if we expand to a few more after the four we've committed to, China will very likely be one of them.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:54
  • Working remotely from outside the US is allowed from what I understand, but what happens if the candidate happens to live in a country where he/she requires a visa to stay and a work permit to legally perform a job (Even if the job is done remotely for a US based company)? I don't think SO has any company setup in Thailand so that, unfortunately, leaves me out :-(
    – momo
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 10:13
  • @momo, I don't know the specifics of Thai law, but in many countries, long-term, consulting arrangements are an option.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 14:28

34 Answers 34

114

I'm one of these buggers that speak weird, foreign languages that only a minority can understand. I, too, was initially against having multiple Stack Overflows (Stacks Overflow? Stack Overflow's?).

So SO em Português, as we call the Portuguese version (let's call it SOpt), was born. It happens to be my native language (I'm from huehue, as we call Brazil in some places). I decided to give it a chance. After some time, what initially seemed like a bad idea turned out to be a good one.

I noticed a few patterns there:

  • When someone asks a good question that has not been asked in English before, the question gets asked in English in the original Stack Overflow (SO) too;

  • When someone asks a question that has already had a good answer in SO, the most active users will link to the question in SO, along with translations of the most relevant parts of the best answers, as well as the translators' own comments.

  • When someone asks something that has already been asked in SO, but has not had a good answer there, the question ends up getting good answers in both sites.

This leads to bilingual users, me included, visiting SO more and more, for references and updates on good answers.

IMO the effect of having multiple SO's for each language will not decentralize SO, nor get bilingual users away from it. Experience has shown that the opposite will happen :)

I do speak Spanish too, but this announcement has made me want to learn Japanese and Russian as well. Buena suerte, hermanos del Español! Ganbatee-yo, minna-san! Удачи, товарищи!

SOpt has also forced me to think about programming problems in more (human) languages. I'm not saying that any language is better than any other for programming... but being able to express your problems in multiple languages does add more points of view to the solution process, which ends up being very helpful.

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  • 37
    This is early and anecdotal, but it's exactly what we were hoping for. I'll be honest - we weren't 100% sure what would happen with these. We thought that the balkanization harm would be low, since anyone comfortable on SO(Eng) would probably tend to stay where the best answers are today, and we'd bring in new contributors. But we were a little scared too.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:22
  • 14
    I think it's great to see an answer from the perspective of a user who disliked, then used and enjoyed, SOpt. I think this answer gives excellent insight into how SOpt works, and how we can hope that this new Spanish SO will work.
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:24
  • 24
    This mirrors what I've heard from Gabe and others active on PT.SO. I gotta confess, I was pretty skeptical of this idea at the outset - but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the Portuguese community has devoured this opportunity with gusto. The essential goal of Stack Overflow has always been communication - not just with these machines, but with our peers... Improving the ability of programmers everywhere to communicate, creating bridges between formerly-isolated groups, is very much in keeping with this.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:31
  • 1
    Would be nice to see some examples of this... it happens but can it be shown so? With links to both sites? Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:57
  • 4
    @JonathanDrapeau search for "soen" in pt.stackoverflow.com and you'll see basically every case where SO has been referenced. My favorite ones are the most extensive discussions, such as this and this. "Fonte" means source, so you have the links from SOpt to SO right there.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:33
  • 5
    @JonathanDrapeau I have an example, sort of... About two years ago I asked this question at SOen and got no useful answer. I asked the same question at SOpt and - while I ended up answering myself - the feedback I got from the other users (in special bfavaretto) was key to enable me to do this. Although I had forgotten about the original question, some time later an user with the same problem put a bounty in my question, prompting me to translate my answer back from SOpt to SOen.
    – mgibsonbr
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 18:34
  • 9
    @JonathanDrapeau Yes, you will miss answers from people that can't write in English. Even if you put a gun in the mouth of these people you won't get answers from them. You will miss answers from people that doesn't use SO. Period.
    – Maniero
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:47
  • 3
    @bigown Sort of. SO is missing my answers, because I chose to focus on SOpt. But how bad is that for SO? I'd like to think I'm so important that I'm being missed there, but that's probably not the case. There are lots of other people, many more skilled than me, answering questions in the same tags I did. So, is SO going to miss some users? I'd say yes. Will that ruin SO? Definitely not.
    – bfavaretto
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:53
  • 30
    @JonathanDrapeau "can't be bothered to learn English"? Many can't even learn Portuguese properly because of our failed education system in Brazil. By sharing programming knowledge in Portuguese we're enabling more people to learn programming. English will come later, hopefully.
    – bfavaretto
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 20:31
  • 7
    I've missed the count of how much people said things about "It's a great site, but I don't speak english, so I can't enjoy this knowledge". Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 21:27
  • 22
    @JonathanDrapeau I might be misreading your comments again (did I mention I'm not a native en speaker? :P), but what makes english speakers entitled to the knowledge provided by non-speakers? Nobody has the obligation to translate anything from SOpt to SOen, as much as the reverse is true. If I decided to share some of my knowledge, and did so in a format that's not accessible to you, it's not my problem! I'm a volunteer here, I contribute as much as I want the way that I want, period. P.S. the comment I might have misread is "Why would people on SOen be given the same treatment if..."
    – mgibsonbr
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 22:38
  • 3
    @JonathanDrapeau As you can see in the image SOpt is a success. I'm an active element in SOpt while in SOen I was merely a "search boy". SOen 1 year, 10 months 154 rep; SOpt 5 months 1,781 rep; The SOpt community comes here to defending the OS in other languages ​​because it is a success and helps many people. Many of our responses are based on SOen... so SOen never die ;)
    – Jorge B.
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 8:17
  • 7
    Me agrada mucho la idea de tener un StackOverflow en Español, mucha gente en Latinoamerica se pierde la oprotunidad de aprender mucho mas por las barreras del lenguaje/ I'm really glad with the idea tath a Spanish Stack Overflow its in the oven, a lot of people in LatinAmerica its losing the oportunity to learn beacause the language barrier. Kudos!
    – Rafael
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 14:36
  • 2
    Greeting from another HUE HUE BR!
    – Nacib Neme
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 23:43
  • 4
    I think the software should emphasize these beneficial patterns. I'd love to see the foreign-language posts in the "linked questions" list, just like Wikipedia has a "in other languages" box in the sidebar.
    – Bergi
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 15:14
68

I'm from Spain [that country of Europe where spanish language were founded :) ]

Well. I have a terrible english level. I know... But I know that too:

  • English it's the main technical language for programmers and software engineers.
  • The secret of steel it's the centralized knowledge. This is the power of SO. All of we search here.

My code it's on english. My doubts too.

So I not agree with this. I will use the original SO.

But it's only my opinion.

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    That is the spirit. This is not completely correct English, but we understand it, and appreciate the answer. That is all we need here to get the ball rolling. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:38
  • 22
    Spain [that country of Europe where spanish language were founded] ಠ_ಠ
    – user703016
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:43
  • 11
    dolan +1 It was a joke... It wouldn't be the first time that someone thinks that Spain it's near Brasil... Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:51
  • 12
    IMHO, that's exactly why localized SO won't work : people will look for answers where they might actually find them, that is on english SO. And they'll ask their questions there too. Localized SO will most likely end up bloated with mediocre answers to mediocre questions because of that (and to be clear, not because non english speakers are mediocre, don't kill me right now :) Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:13
  • 17
    @X.L.Ant You don't have to speculate how it will end up. We've already done the experiment with SOpt and it is certainly not "bloated with mediocre answers to mediocre questions". I can't see why Spanish would be fundamentally different.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:31
  • 12
    I agree. They have created "estouro da pilha" that is stack overflow version in portuguese. Portuguese is my natural language. I never used and will never use the portuguese version. First because 1)the top knowledge is on the english version because of the variety of people from different languages 2)who thinks to work with computers seriously nowadays have to talk english or have to find another job.
    – Duck
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:46
  • 9
    @X.L.Ant In SOpt we have some great answers that aren't present in the main site, besides local technical questions. Many users are finding better answers in their own language. There were cases where the OP posted the same question on SO and SOpt and got better and more numerous answers on SOpt. Sorry, but even though there are some concentration of great programmers here, you're just missing other great programmers out there.
    – utluiz
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:23
  • 4
    @utluiz And there it is, the decentralization of knowledge. Those better answers might never be translated to English, or other languages based SO sites. That's the real bad part of it. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:45
  • 3
    @JonathanDrapeau I don't see a problem with that. Please check the utluiz reputation in SOPT and in SOEN (20k vs 264). What a great knowledge was not being shared with the community just of because of language and cultural barriers? Now in SOPT he is comfortable to participate and is being useful for several other people. Here, he was almost unnoticed, in all this 2 years of "participation". Same happened to several other persons.
    – Math
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:29
  • 2
    @Math And the circle starts, the answer someone not fluent in any other language than English is in another language, he can't benefit from that answer unless he tries to translate it or learn the other language... We're not gaining more knowledge, we're spreading it unevenly. I'm not saying the other sites don't have a purpose, I'm saying we're not reaching the greatest number of people as SO should. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:33
  • 9
    @JonathanDrapeau The "decentralization" of knowledge is a fallacy. It already is decentralized. Further, SO is not just a knowledge database. It helps real people to solve real problems. Yes, localized versions helps a lot. And the "barriers" that someone said is being raised is another fallacy, since when people come to know know SOxx and they like it, they will inevitably come to know other sites from SE. Yes, there are questions that will never take their way to SO, but the chances are they would never do anyway.
    – utluiz
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 18:51
  • 4
    @JonathanDrapeau If millions would like to see the answer for such question, soon or later it will be asked here.
    – utluiz
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:13
  • 7
    Hi spanish person. I'm from one of those countries from the new world that speak spanish thanks to Spain. So... where is our gold!? ;) just kidding... I'm a fan of DRY so I didn't like the idea at glance. However, after some deep meditation, I think that SO in spanish is a great idea, because I know many programmers that don't use SO because they can't understand english, so this is a great opportunity for their professional growth and enrichment. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 20:34
  • 7
    I live in Venezuela that country conquered by Spain where the Spanish language was perfected (teehehe) i have some known associates, college mates, among others who are amazing developers, with great logic and good skills, but they don't speak english very well, the logic of the code in english is one thing, but having to explain yourself in a proper grammar for the current language is not so easy.
    – DJ22T
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 20:52
  • 9
    I'm from Peru [that country in South America that Spain invaded lot of years ago and made us learn and speak Spanish] and my native language is: yes, Spanish. And I learned English thanks to StackOverflow as well, but at least the place where I work at only 10 people of at least 50 programmers don't speak English and they have problems when using SOen. This also happens in lot of places in my country and I would dare to say this is extended in South America as well. I find this SOes initiative very interesting and promising, not for me but for these people that have problems with English. Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 23:38
65

I'm just amazed to see that so many users of the SO site are so intolerant about this proposal

What are you afraid of? In what way does the Spanish SO site affect you?

Everyone can understand a bit of code and syntax in English, but it's not the same thing as having to explain yourself to a community of native and non-native English spoken users.

It is not like the SO main site is going to lose users, I am a native Spanish user and I will remain on SO, but if I have the chance to go to SPSO, to help other users who struggle with the proper English, while their questions get flagged, downvoted and rejected just because they can't speak the language properly?

I totally support this initiative.

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  • 17
    standing ovation
    – Devin
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 23:42
  • 15
    Our concern is, primarily, about the splitting up of quality information, making it difficult to find. Remember that the primary goal of Stack Overflow at its inception was to create a single, authoritative, peer-reviewed resource containing answers to all sorts of common programming problems. If the answers are split across multiple language versions of the site, we've defeated our ability to reach this goal.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 5:56
  • 3
    Furthermore, bilingual experts (e.g., people who speak both English and Spanish, but are native Spanish speakers) might move their participation entirely to the Spanish version of the site, robbing everyone else entirely of their knowledge. If they'd been forced to share it on the main (English) site, it would reach a broader audience.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 5:57
  • 7
    @CodyGray I agree that there probably will be some transfer of knowledge, but I still disagree with the way this is written. "Robbing" everyone else (meaning that the knowledge belong to the english speaking userbase), "been forced" to share it on the main site
    – Lamak
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 13:05
  • The knowledge would have been on the English site, had this spin-off not been created.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 20:36
  • 10
    It's true, that's a real possibility, @Cody. But there are two reasons why I think it'll be less of a problem than some folks fear: first, if you are able to communicate effectively in both languages, having two sites and unique knowledge gives you the opportunity to share that knowledge with two separate communities - twice the benefit, twice the status. And second... I've watched what happened when we spun off Programmers and DBAs: some of the folks who were struggling or mostly lurking on SO learned to do better on the new sites and became better SO members as a result.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 20:42
  • 2
    @CodyGray i guess you know nothing about the spanish community of developers, there are plenty other sites or forums where users can get the knowledge base completely on Spanish but those sites are not SO, and developers know that, Spanish site isn't gonna make me move completely from main site, that's silly, it's just gonna make me more active on StackExchange itself, I'm already active in around 7 more of the network sites, and that doesn't affect an user developement here
    – DJ22T
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 20:47
  • 2
    It certainly would affect my participation, @DannyG. I haven't the time to be an active, contributing member to a large number of Stack Exchange sites. I can barely manage one or two. If you can find the time in the day to do this, well, I'm both shocked and impressed. And no, I don't know anything about the Spanish community of developers, but having "plenty other sites or forums where users can get the knowledge" doesn't sound unique. We have the same thing in English, of course. Stack Overflow isn't the only, just the best. Having the information all together is a big part of why.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 3:19
  • @Shog9 Yeah, I'm still trying to learn to love duplication. Your second reason is quite interesting, though. It would be nice to see some hard data on that. Maybe hard to do without singling out individuals, I don't know.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 3:21
  • Should be possible (if somewhat difficult) using SEDE; I'll try to find the time to put something together.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 3:32
  • 5
    Ugh, the "how does it affect you" argument. It's total nonsense. Murdering 20,000 people on the other side of the world doesn't have to "affect me personally" in order for me to find flaws in its execution. Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 17:27
  • 3
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Are you seriously comparing slaughter with a discussion about another language site? what is wrong with you?
    – DJ22T
    Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 17:39
  • 4
    @DannyG: Er, no? I'm critiquing this form of counter-argument. Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 17:55
47

Having localized versions of SO, IMO is highly desirable.

Several extremely highly ranked users on SOPT today were contributing users on SO, but at much lower levels, for a really long time. Meanwhile, once they felt like part of a community where they could give more, they became excellent contributors, and were able to share knowledge that they might never have been able to share without the creation of SOPT.

Here are some examples:


utluiz
264 rep on SO in 2 years.
20.4K rep on SOPT in 9 months.


bigown
612 rep on SO in 4 years and 9 months.
16.7K rep on SOPT in 9 months.


Bacco
127 rep on SO in 3 years.
14.9K on SOPT in 9 months.


Cigano Morrison Mendez
744 rep on SO in 2 years and 5 months.
14.3K rep on SOPT in 7 months.


These are just few, sorry, I can't list all of them.

I'm pretty sure that there are several others that fit in this pattern, but that are from different countries, and they will benefit from the localized SO's as well as the Lusophone community does.

Speaking for myself, I've never been a participative member in SO. I can't say exactly why, but I just didn't feel comfortable, I don't know.

Despite that, I am a dedicated member, as evidenced by the "Fanatic" badge I earned in Jul 9' 13 (by that time I had 163 rep), and my counter of visited days, which is currently at 559 days visited in just 1 year and 8 months (aprox. 92% of the days). But I've never really felt part of it, thus my relatively small contribution to the site. (This is my first post on Meta!)

Regarding the CM in SOES. I can't, sorry. I don't fulfill the roles.

PS: Sorry for my bad English.

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  • 1
    I understand peoples chose AREA 51 to create several distinct sites. But why doing in a such way (doing this by spliting)? Why splitting reps since this is definitely the same target? I understand the reason for sites that target language learning, but Stack Overflow is about technology : language isn't linked to the target at all. Why not doing a per question basis? Or a system where mods tell about the language they don't want to bother with while reviewing? Definitely : I don't understand why not sharing some structures between languages. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:30
  • 14
    Because it'd be super-confusing, @user2284570. Believe me, we discussed all of those ideas before settling on separate sites - after all, how awesome wouldn't it be to visit any question on SO and choose your language from the header? Problem is, this ignores the people who write these questions and answers. There are already "versions" of SO in other languages, sites that scrape the content and translate it somehow - but they're dead. No updates, no clarifications, no way for someone to ask a new question or have any idea if there's anyone with real expertise behind the facade...
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 23:28
35

Sorry if this is not the right place to say this, but I really need to comment on something that has been bugging me for a while, ever since these "StackOverflow in language X" proposals appeared:

Claim:

It's not good to fragment our community. Let's keep everything in English, so it will benefit the largest possible number of people.

Not only this assertion is false, but more importantly it's misguided!

  • It's false because the proposal is not targeting people that are already in the community. It's targetting people that are outside the community.

    If I don't speak, say, Japanese, and there's a real cool blog post about something I'm interested in, this post has zero value to me. It's data, but it's not information. Actually it's worse than zero, it's noise. I'd better just ignore it, and thankfully Google does a pretty good job in hiding this stuff from me.

    If I spoke both Portuguese and Japanese, OTOH, I could compare that post with the stuff written in Portuguese, see which one has better info, and decide whether or not to join the Japanese community or stick to my own. Whatever I choose, I'll end up hurting one or another - at best I'll contribute half to each one even though I could commit fully to it (at the expense of the other one).

    If StackOverflow is launched in other languages, will existing contributors leave? Maybe. I can't speak for myself, since I stopped contributing frequently to SOen long before SOpt came along. And while I don't know many other users, I noticed that most of the top-ranked Brazilian users in SOen chose to stick with the English site. Some loss is expected, of course, but forgive me to ask: how much will it matter?

    StackOverflow is crowded! Really! The reason I dediced to leave SOen as previously mentioned was because I was not having "fun" at it. There are just too many questions, and too many users elbowing each other to anwser them first. Add it to the fact that I take more time "parsing" English, thinking in Portuguese and finally "emitting" more English, and it was hard to me to be an useful, fast contributor. Even after years of practice, I'm just that much more productive while working with my native tongue than with a foreign one. I discovered with SOpt that I like working in Portuguese.

    So IMHO a small "brain drain" won't harm StackOverflow too much, if anything at all. Not counting the flock of n00bs that won't have anymore to write poorly written questions at SOen, having SOpt as a good alternative. It's not much either (there are many bad writers in the world, different language or not), but I'm betting the overall quality of SO will improve...

  • What about "misguided"? Now, here's what really makes me angry at all this resistance against language specific sites: what is more important, to benefit the largest number of people or the people who needs it the most?

    I understand that StackExchange it not a non-profit, charitable organization, and that it will do what makes more business sense, hopefully within the boundary of ethics. But once someone start talking about "ideals", "spreding the knowledge", etc one has to realize that the people who need this knowledge the most are the ones who can not afford to learn English right away. Those who can already have a huge advantage over those who can't, even though there's always room for improvement of course.

    I can't tell how the software world will be 2000 years from now, not any more than someone 2000 years ago could predict that the whole world would not be speaking Latin today. But I acknowledge that in the current historical context any developer worth his salt will eventually have to learn English. Emphasis on "eventually". Requiring a foreign language as a pre-requirement to work in some industry raises the bar too much, it's a decision no sane community would impose on itself. Those communities of non-native English speakers will continue to develop software whether they have access to good resources in their native language or not.

    By denying these people access to a knowledge that would greatly improve their lives, and more often than not without creating a "competitor" to yourself (most software is developed in-house, and most businesses never leave their home country), on the basis that it will "diminish the knowledge available to me", that is... c'mon!... I shouldn't even have to explain this...

    For that reason, not only I applaud StackExchange for going through this route [of creating more localized SOs], but I'm not bothered at all the the "ideal of a centralized repository of knowledge" was weakened - since in doing so it enabled a higher ideal, of knowledge to everyone.

Now hoping that my little rant that took so long to write (aff, it's even harder to write prose in English than code) is not deleted as "does not answer the question"... :P

4
  • 1
    How about a "centralized repository of knowledge for everyone"? Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 20:29
  • 26
    @JonathanDrapeau it's not for everyone if you don't reach out to everyone.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 20:51
  • @Renan Exactly what I've been saying all along. Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 12:14
  • 1
    but then, once you reach everyone it's not very centralized anymore
    – soulcheck
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 23:50
25

In short, I support any spin-off of SO in widely spoken languages. I just can't understand the outrageous reaction on having a Spanish version of SO.

Having clones of SO in other languages will surely serve more audience and doesn't aim to migrate talents from English SO to other clones. Not to mention that SE is a profit company and have the right to expand and discover new markets.

I am not going to speak on behalf of any SO user. My intention is to assist those who are seeking help in spite of their language, religion, nationality, etc. If you have other intentions, you may need to interview each and every help-seeker before offering your help.

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    "doesn't aim to migrate talents from English SO to other clones" Of course it will. But more importantly, it will most likely result in good information not getting back to SO, where they could benefit the largest number of people.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 13:18
  • 9
    One language spoken = more active community = skilled people = Good question =Good Answer Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 13:39
  • 5
    @K.B Well, yeah, unless you don't speak the one language, in which case, whoops, you'll just be turned away. Do you really think there is, and can be, no other Web site on the Internet that will let people talk about programming in Spanish, one of the most widely spoken languages in the world?
    – Casey
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 13:51
  • 18
    The goal for the localization effort is to provide the site in languages where a significant number of native speakers of that language do not fluently converse in English, and are unlikely to be motivated to do so. We've always been about giving vibrant communities that are passionate about getting better at something a place to do it. For people that only speak Spanish, Stack Overflow is not that place. It's a site they can perhaps manage to read, not a place where they can participate and say look what we built. What's so wrong with giving that to them?
    – user50049
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:07
  • 4
    @emodendroket the all point is: regarding programming topic, you should at least be able to read English. In which case, you are not turned away. No need to duplicate/isolate technical information across multiple sites in multiple languages.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:07
  • 4
    @TimPost The goal of the ones saying that it is a terrible idea is to provide SO with the largest number of experts as possible. What's wrong is that if they benefit from good info, I want to benefit from it too. When you have one place to manage, that is easy to do.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:09
  • @VonC Maybe you "should" but it's demonstrably false that every professional programmer in the world is comfortable with English (and there's no rule that says you have to be a professional to post which makes this even more senseless).
    – Casey
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:39
  • 2
    @emodendroket I don't expect a programmer (professional or not) to be comfortable enough with English to post in SO. I do expect to find in one place the accurate and curated information that this programmer is looking for. That way, other (speaking different languages) will benefit from that same information.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:42
  • 4
    @VonC Any talent has joined SO voluntary and can leave SO/SE without prior notice. If a talent finds its' comfort zone outside SO, nobody can stop it.
    – Omar
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:43
  • @emodendroket Of course, but on the other hand, I tend to agree with VonC that not at least being able to read some english is a big flaw in programming, where most advanced documentation exist only in english. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:43
  • 1
    @X.L.Ant Well, SO is hardly limited to only advanced programmers, and even if it were, we're contributing to the very deficit you're describing.
    – Casey
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:01
  • outrageous reaction for different opinion. Interesting living entity the humanity is. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:02
  • 7
    @VonC By asking what the ramifications of bringing up a Spanish SO site would be for SO in terms of contributions SO would not receive, you're asking me to document a negative, which is impossible. What I can say is, the people we're looking to serve are not posting things on Stack Overflow, so we're starting from a total loss. I think what I haven't explained well is that my perspective is in fact the opposite.
    – user50049
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:14
  • @Lamak I have removed my previous comment about resenting potential SO users contributing instead on other SO instances, as the other answers in this page (and other comments like meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/271998/…) seem to prove my assertion is simply wrong.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 7:29
  • 1
    "Having clones of SO in other languages" - the problem is they will NOT be CLONES.... they will be completely separate pages which only the spanish speaking people will benefit from...
    – user2140173
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 21:49
19

I have a couple of questions about this (I know, what crazy things am I doing here by not posting a rant about this, right?).

  • The application description says "NYC or remote". How "remote" can it be?, can the position be fulfilled from a country outside the US?

  • Would it be a full time job?, or can it be a side job?

  • Is there only one position available?

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    We have employees all around the world. "Remote" can be anywhere with a good internet connection. It's full-time, and yes, there's only one position for a Spanish-speaking community manager.
    – Laura Staff
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:07
  • 11
    Se olvidó de preguntar sobre las monedas ;) Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:11
  • @Laura Thanks for the answers. What's the time frame to receive applications?, and any idea of when should the spanish SO be launched?
    – Lamak
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:26
  • @ypercube queras decir "medio de pago" ;)
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:33
  • 4
    As soon as possible, @Lamak - the job will be up until it is filled, and although we're not quite ready to set up the site yet the hazing process for new hires can take months.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 18:12
  • 7
    I guess the only logical response to a question-that's-not-a-question is an answer-that's-not-an-answer. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:36
  • 4
    @DavidWallace As with these other discussion posts (mentors, SOTV) it was asked to post questions in an answer. With the excessive comments, valid questions would be lost.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 10:36
  • 4
    Meta isn't about questions. Get over it people. (sorry, couldn't refrain any longer)
    – Seth
    Commented Sep 25, 2014 at 16:06
  • @Shog9 Maybe best not to call it hazing, as that's illegal in some countries.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 15:52
  • (Namely, the one out of which StackExchange operates)
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 29, 2014 at 18:50
18

I won't comment here about the Spanish community manager job.

I'm commenting here about the crazy idea you had to create a Stack Overflow website for 10 different languages. That really isn't a good idea IMO.

I'm French, I always speak French, everyone at my job speaks French, but we ALL JUST WANT ENGLISH WEBSITES to help us in our job.

For example: as I'm working with Microsoft technologies, I spend a lot of time on MSDN. MSDN in French is incomplete (at best) or auto-translated from English (80% of time). That's just crap. Everyone here now knows that you have to read/write English to be able to work efficiently. For my job, I don't want to Google things using any other language than English.

Creating Spanish SO, Russian SO...etc. will just fragment the whole thing and defeat the initial purpose of StackOverflow. SO is great because you have:

  • some top notch contributors (Jon Skeet, Hans Passant, Eric Lippert...etc). I don't know their native language, but we (the vast majority of programming enthusiasts and professionals that can understand English at least just a bit) can read them thanks to the fact they use English
  • thousands of specialists in any programming domain
  • hundreds of thousands users that ask various questions and receive various answers for every possible programming issue every day
  • the best programming Q/A database of the whole Internet

Why would you change that? Having 10 different websites whould just reduce the overall expertise level and Q/A completeness of StackOverflow.

It would just hide incredibly interesting questions/answers for the vast majority of us that read/write English but don't read/write Spanish/Russian/Chinese...etc.

For young beginners that start programming, I understand they're not supposed to read/write English. But there are others resources available online (tutorials etc.) in every possible language. It doesn't have to be Stack Overflow someone that doesn't speak a word of English should visit first.

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    See blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/… for the motivation. Simple, not every programming culture speaks English. There is no point in a Dutch Stack Overflow for example, the Dutch, as a people, have mastered English rather well. And just because you have mastered English, doesn't mean that others have or that there is a culture of learning English as part of learning to program. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:25
  • 7
    @MartijnPieters: I believe that is a misguided report to convince the community that we need to support SE's proprietary customers. Many of us do not buy it, including me. The whole report is fishy anyway, since it does not speak about the loss at all. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:27
  • 15
    @lpapp: fine to speak for yourself, but don't claim to speak for a majority please. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:28
  • 10
    @MartijnPieters - So, you are telling because the Spanish people don't want to learn english (which BTW is accepted globally), you create a separate site?. I don't have anything against the spanish, but this isn't right. What if tomorrow a million indians say we want SO to be in hindi (national language of India),chinese say we want it in chinese, japanese, finnish etc would you be Ok with that? Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:30
  • 7
    @TheLostMind: +1, I do not understand why it is a problem to learn a language to a minimum desired level that is the core of programming and many other things in the world these days. I am very bad at languages, yet I could learn English in no time for what I needed. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:33
  • 7
    @MartijnPieters - PS : Absolutely, no disrespect intended. I am afraid I would be waiting for an answer on SO while a person who knows the answer like this guy would be waiting for questions somewhere else. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 10:43
  • 15
    @MartijnPieters Also, don't forget programming is tied to English for technical reasons: programming languages themselves are using English keywords. Official documentations comes in English first (if not only) for all main languages/framworks/products.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 11:48
  • 11
    @ken2k: And just because you cannot conceive of a culture where it is the norm to use your own language rather than learn English doesn't mean these things don't exist. To think that everyone should just learn English is, in my opinion, rather arrogant and short-sighted. I've now lived in 4 different countries with rather big differences in culture with multi-year spans in each, and the differences in outlook on issues locals take for granted are vast sometimes. And those were all western cultures, I can't imagine what living in any of the other continents might be like. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 12:09
  • 9
    @MartijnPieters Sorry, but you're generalizing too much IMO. Programming is not the world, it's just programming. It's not about using English everywhere, it's about using the language that suits best the activity. For example, if you want to be astronaut, you'll have to learn Russian. Nobody wants to convert the world to Russian, it's just that the job requires that skill.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 12:14
  • 9
    That isn't even part of it @ken2k. Nobody is asking anyone to go to another site instead. If someone so wishes, they can participate on another side in another language as well. And for those who can't participate on an SO in English, there might be this useful site for them where they can ask their questions in the comfort of their own language. Are they better off learning English in the long run? Sure. But that doesn't imply programming information should only ever be offered in English.
    – Bart
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 12:27
  • 9
    @emodendroket Of course, and it was my personal case more than 10 years ago, long before I started to use English. But it doesn't mean you have to use one of the SE websites to start programming if you don't speak English. There are thousands of non-English websites that are about programming. But if you're a professional or an enthusiast, you really should start learning English at some point.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 13:54
  • 8
    @emodendroket People have a limited available amount of time, so the time spent on Spanish SO cannot be used on English SO. Adding more places to participate for the community mathematically reduces the time spent on a particular place.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 14:25
  • 17
    I strongly disagree with you. There is a glaring hole in your reasoning: this initiative is targeted to people who don't know English enough to participate actively on Stack Overflow. They are obviously not part of the demographics of this site's active participants. If you like to think/code/write in English, fine. It's not everyone's option, though, nor a concern of this community if we launch a different community.
    – Sklivvz
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 15:35
  • 11
    It's incorrect maths. There are people for whom contributing here is not an option. Involving them certainly increases the number of available volunteers. You can keep all your effort on the English site if you want to. It's not a zero sum game.
    – Sklivvz
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:10
  • 14
    "That's the stupidest idea I've ever seen on meta." is really unfair. Just speaking personally, I can think of numerous ideas I've proposed that were MUCH stupider than this one. :)
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 19:31
13

I don't know what all the negative comments are about. I'm Spanish, I love this site and would continue to use it in English regardless of having an equivalent community in Spanish, but that doesn't mean there aren't thousands upon thousands of people that struggle to communicate their problems in a language foreign to them and being able to contribute there would be great.

Probably I'll get downvoted for saying this, there are several people that said that English is compulsory and that in Spain we have a decent English level. I personally don't agree. There are many people with great written and oral English skills, but many more with mediocre English skills. I can't speak for the rest of the Spanish speaking people since I don't have that information readily available.

I've been giving Android talks for three years now at a university in Madrid and actually questioned my students about the reason for not actively using stackoverflow as an aid for studying. The response, with a few exceptions, was unanimous They don't feel comfortable enough to ask and convey what they're trying to say, and in most cases, they end up trying snippets of code from other answers and asking the teachers.

I totally support this initiative and I think it will have a great positive impact. I would apply for this, but I don't live in the US. I applied for this but couldn't change the country so I'll assume it will get dismissed.

7
  • 1
    Juan, most of the team is remote, so not living in the US isn't a problem!
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 27, 2014 at 11:17
  • @Jaydles when I try to apply, on the second step it request a US address and I don't see a country dropdown or anything :) Commented Sep 27, 2014 at 12:01
  • thanks for the heads up. We'll get that fixed. For now, feel free to just fill in your address- we'll ignore the country.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 27, 2014 at 20:00
  • Juan, tell your students about their uncertain future if they go out from university without mastering english and the limitation they suffer if they can not learn from scientific literature. I agree with you about the bad english level of Spaniards (mine the worst) but, for a professional, english fluency is nowadays a must, a requirement, in nearly all technical and scientific areas. Now the world is global and english the lingua franca. Your students must be able to exchange ideas with people outside the small room of the class.
    – joaquin
    Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 11:55
  • 1
    @joaquin, totally agree but in the meantime there is nothing wrong with being able to ask those questions in spanish. They can improve their english and while they do so, ask in spanish until they feel comfortable Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 12:00
  • If they do not need to do the efford they will not try until too late.
    – joaquin
    Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 12:41
  • @Jaydles I applied, although there'll be people with prettier cvs and greater experience, still worth a try Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 16:27
12

I am a native spanish speaker, and english is my third or fourth language. I believe that SO in spanish (and in other languages as well) is a wonderful tool and will become an invaluable resource for the spanish speaking community.

I already posted, a couple of years ago to the Why are some people just not that interested in Stack Overflow? question, an answer very relevant here. So let me reproduce it:


In my environment some people just don't jump into SO because of their knowledge and proficiency (or lack of) on the english language.

They are affraid to ask, shy to respond, feel embarrased with the need to explain themselves.. They either just don't take it, or give up after a few attempts and never follow on.

For many, they'd love SO in their language.


And I believe that it will bring value back to SO in english as well. Because many of us, spanish speakers and contributors to SO in english, will participate in both SO and SO-es, and will ensure that interesting and fresh questions and answers get linked between both sites.

4
  • 2
    No native english speaker made me feel dumb cause of my english, in contrary!!! I think, there are more spanish people, laugh other spanish people cause of their english than native english speakers, who laugh cause of it. Therefore I think, many spaniards are very complexed about their english, Regards
    – Gödel77
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 7:12
  • 1
    I am a native English speaker. I find that most people who say their English is "terrible" are much better at making themselves understood than they seem to think. It is usually the people who don't tell us their English is terrible who have the worst English. In both cases, we try to not hold the lack of good English against them. English skill is not, after all, a sign of intelligence! Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 16:56
  • Thanks for the comments, but don't forget that, like a good psycological thriller, the reality is suspended and what remains is the perceived fear.
    – PA.
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 11:47
  • Could you offer a hand with this: stackoverflow.com/posts/28330370/revisions
    – apaul
    Commented Feb 4, 2015 at 21:29
8

I'm Brazilian but I rarely visited the Portuguese site because the English site traffic is much bigger and I can effectively read and write English. But most Brazilians can't hence the Portuguese site success. My guess is that most native Spanish speakers also can't communicate effectively in English so I expect another success.

2
  • 1
    From what I see on your SO profile, it would be great for Stack Overflow em Português if you could drop by and post an answer from time to time. Just saying... :)
    – bfavaretto
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 2:27
  • 2
    @bfavaretto My specialization is PostgreSQL and the traffic is so low that I would need to visit everyday for a week or two to have a chance to find an interesting question. With that said I just posted an answer there :) Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 9:27
8

When we talk about the danger of Balkanization, there's another form of Balkanization we have to take into account as well. I'm thinking of divides not only along cultural/language lines but also of a divide along socioeconomic lines. What's said about all computer professionals or enthusiasts having a working knowledge of English is true enough, as long as you limit yourself to the professional class.

But computing and even programming is no longer limited to the professional class. There are people in the third world who are barely literate, but who are becoming computer literate, and who might benefit by being able to ask questions and receive answers in their own language. A Spanish language SO would, I think, help some subset of those people. They may have enough English skills to tackle a manual, but not enough to phrase a question clearly enough in English. The same goes for answers.

The distinction between the professional class and the humbler classes is much more marked in the third world than it is in the first world.

I'm not worried about English SO losing valuable answers due to the existence of a Spanish alternative. The vast majority of participants in English SO will continue to participate. A few people will probably participate in both English and Spanish SO. The prior experience with Portuguese should prove instructive here.

8

For some background: I am a native Spanish speaker from Lima, Peru. My English is sufficiently good for both technical and non-technical communication. I "studied" English in school and even in kindergarten, but was never a particularly good student, to put it mildly. Only when I took programming as a hobby and was confronted with the unavailability of good enough learning resources in Spanish, did I come to terms with the fact that not learning English was not an option. So I can put myself in the shoes of someone who needs to ask a programming question, but whose English is not good enough to use the international Stack Overflow site.

Now, to cut straight to the point: Yes, there is value in making Stack Overflow available to people who are not proficient enough in English to use the international Stack Overflow site. However, even then, I think we need to encourage non-English-speaking programmers to learn written English little by little, so that they can eventually make use of the by far vaster resources available in this language. If a Spanish version of Stack Overflow helps spread both programming and English knowledge, I would love to contribute to it.


I think I fulfill most, if not all the requirements posted above:

  1. Fluency in English and Spanish (native-level writing in Spanish)

    Besides being a native Spanish speaker, my written English skills are top-notch (no immodesty intended, just check my Stack Exchange profiles) and my spoken English is also quite good, although my pronunciation is obviously not native to anyone who hears me.

  2. Enough programming experience or training to be the only moderator / company liaison to the community on a Spanish-language Stack Overflow (at least at first)

    I am no beginner programmer - I am familiar with several technologies, both mainstream and now-rather-niche-but-very-promising. And, most importantly, I love programming well (separating concerns, isolating errors, etc.) and teaching others how to do it, which I think is important for a site many people will use as a learning and reference resource.

  3. Experience using Stack Exchange sites (huge rep is not required, but we want someone who gets and loves the system.)

    Although lately I have not been terribly active, my profile and reputation attest to the fact I know very well how Stack Overflow is meant to be used.

  4. Comfort owning and overseeing a multi-step plan. International site rollouts involve a fair bit of planning, and each one is different. You'd be responsible (with help from a senior CM) for establishing and overseeing execution of a rollout plan.

    I have never worked specifically on an international site, but as a software professional, I have been involved in the rollout of large projects.

8

Coming from a third world country (Dominican Republic) where the population is far behind in terms of English knowledge, yet has seen a surge of interest in programming and software developing, i can guarantee you that an Spanish S.O would be extremely helpful.

I've been working at a small software developing company for the past year. Right now we have 3 new "pupils" who recently began pursuing a career in development. However their English knowledge its minimal. Whenever they are asking questions about how to do this or that, i feel propel to point them to SO to get help from the same place i had gotten so much help in the past year. However, even though the answers to their questions its right in front of their eyes, its impossible for them to use it to their advantage, mainly because instructions are in English. This, among other factors, makes me believe that a Spanish SO would be an awesome idea.

I'm a native Spanish speaker, and my English its good enough. I believe i do have moderating skills and could fare well in this position.. If only i had more programming reputation :p

8

I see this as an encouraging sign that computing is maturing as a field of study. Typically, when a subject is getting started, all the information is published in only one or two languages, and you learn something of at least one of those languages in order to participate.

For example, if you wanted to understand the latest work in physics in Newton's time, you had better be able to read Latin - his most important work was originally published under the title "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica". At the time, the community of European physicists was too small to support separate publication in each language.

Normally, as a subject matures, more work is published in or translated into more languages, making the subject accessible without the burden of learning a specific natural language in order to study it. It is now possible to study physics in many languages.

For computer programming, that starting language was English, with some competition from German for theory. Should that really mean every computer programmer for all time should be expected to learn English? Someday, there will be enough programmers in the world to support publication and discussion in many different languages. SO seems to think that time has come, and they may well be right.

7

This is great...should definitely be done. Roughly 30% of my jobs consists of translating SO posts for those coworkers who aren't proficient enough in English to do it on their own.

Most coders here in Peru are of a technical level, with a two or three year "degree" that gives them just enough knowledge to start working, and the brunt of actual training is done on the job; however, the majority don't speak English or are only able to mechanically identify key words in whatever programming language they learned.

You might say then "why don't they go to Spanish-speaking fora"...there's the rub. They do go on Spanish fora, but the technical level there is pretty low, since the "standard" language for programming is English (and Russian to a degree) so the really tough questions are out of their reach in those fora.

They know of SO and try to use it, but the language barrier is too much. The issue is that high-level coders don't trust random fora around, but they do trust SO, so seeing a Spanish forum here would bridge the gap between them.

5

It's a great thing for me, I have a good level of English but having it in my own language would help me to focus on my problem; so I suppose this to be the same for native-Spanish speakers ... ah, I have got 75% of requirements, use to live in Spain and I speak Spanish (not native) as well

1
  • but having it in my own language would help me to focus on my problem: what about the persons who speak English and a native language different of yours? Commented Dec 20, 2014 at 0:50
5

I am Argentine and here spanish spoken, but very little English. Public education only teaches a very basic English that is useless for technical matters. My level of English is terrible like many of my coworkers.

But we all use Stack Overflow anonymously for years. And without an intermediate level of English, it is impossible to actively participate. Often wanted to share knowledge but could not for the language barrier. Simply it take to much time to answer. Many times I wanted to ask a question and did not know how to be clear.

SO in Spanish, will be a great site for that people that spoken only spanish can participate.

I think it's a wonderful idea.

GRACIAS AMIGOS!

3
  • Public education only teaches a very basic English that is useless for technical mattersDo they teach a correct Japanese and Mandarin? Commented Dec 20, 2014 at 1:16
  • @user2284570 no, just verb to be, do and does and cat means "gato'. Commented Dec 20, 2014 at 1:30
  • The same way, I learned English French and Deutche but not Spanish. The same way you won’t be able to find informations on hypothetical French SO (which is likely to be not on the English site in the future because most informations would be on natives languages SO sites). Commented Dec 20, 2014 at 1:40
5

I think a site in Spanish should succeed and it could actually encourage people to learn and/or improve another language. For those who speak natively Spanish and are willing to learn English and vice versa.

The mere fact that Spanish is the second language by number of speakers in the world Wikipedia: List of languages by number of native speakers, after Mandarin, should suffice as a good reason for this enterprise to be successful.

I can foresee the following challenges:

  • Language Fragmentation: Spanish is actually a designation for Spanish from Castilla + the additions from different countries where the language is spoken. When I started programming 25+ years ago one of the major difficulties was to translate for several countries. The words Software and Hardware were the easiest: to this day, I believe that not even in Spain we have a word for those terms, so we ended up not doing so. File and Computer were a very interesting ones. Books from Spain translated them as "Fichero" and "Ordenador" and Books translated in Latin American (typically "Méjico") used "Archivo" and "Computador". So we learned both ways. I think the problems started when we tried to translate Hash, Gateway, Reboot and other terms where the translations were out of of touch. It was so bad that some of us ended up using some Spanglish term like rebutiar (reboot), los mouse (the mice), etc. I think in this case the language was used again for what is fundamentally the reason of them: communication. In actuality, English does the same, we used both Moon and Lunar, Lung and pulmonary and Street and avenue, some from the old English and combination with some from Latin, Greek, Spanish, French, etc. I believe that people are going to find the way to deal with the differences, the same way we manage to resolve the differences among Colombians (I was born there), Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc. In the end, given our nature it's difficult to find jerks in our communities, most of the time we have fun when we have to translate "Spanish to Spanish", and the Jerks, if any, have a really bad time with us. '!Qúe viva el Español!
  • Stack Overflow Fragmentation: It may be possible but very unlikely. Google and StackOverflow itself are evolving multilingual ecosystems. Therefore Search Engines, links created between posts, translation engines and Artificial Intelligence (AI) are going to assist us more and more. Of course, communities and their natural desire to help each other are going to play an critical role. I believe most people are not going to mind some corrections/annotations and far more important, people are going to be willing to create the gateway, bridge or router between communities.

Well, you native English speakers probably already realized that English was not my native language :-) but that's exactly the spirit, when I came to USA, Kernel was the Unix layer, Windows was the OS and Shell was the Oil Company, but nowadays I am able to navigate both languages with flexibility. This, of course is because Spanish is a very rich language (Music, TV, Food, etc) that is able to co-exist pacifically with other languages.

In summary, I cannot find any reason why we cannot add Programming to the Spanish Language Repertoire (another from Latin/French!).

I am not looking for a Job, but I am willing to help: I am fluent in English and Spanish both business and technical. I am also acquainted with French and Italian. Acquainted! s'il vous plaît don't start a conversación in quelle lingue :-).

Finally, I almost forgot to mention my fluency in C, C++, C#, and other tools that are not so relevant anymore ;-)

Good luck!

Don Corleone: I have a sentimental weakness for my children and I spoil them, as you can see. They talk when they should listen. Anyway, Signor Sollozzo, my no is final and I wish to congratulate you on your new business and I'm sure you'll do very well and good luck with that. Especially since your interests don't conflict with mine. Thank you.

Mario Puzo. The Godfather.

5
  • No one's help will be required :) but input from someone like you sure will be welcome once we get going!
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 3:02
  • Good catch! I'm going to remove the "it is required" ;-) Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 13:01
  • @GonzaloContento : I think a site in Spanish should succeed and it could actually encourage people to learn and/or improve another language Ok, by this way you will also love to learn/improveTurkish; Armenian; Albanian; German; Greek; Lithuanian; Latvian; Dutch; Afrikaans; Czech; Polish; Slovak; Vietnamese; Khmer; Mandarin; Korean; Indonesian; Bengali; Tamil; Uzbek; Nepali; Persian; Dzongkhain order to find the informations you want on SO. Commented Dec 20, 2014 at 1:12
  • @user2284570 Not sure what your point is/was... The question was related to the Spanish Language. And yes, about other languages: why not? The Internet can carry as much information as we are able to consume. It is exactly when data becomes information that we perceive its value. Commented Dec 30, 2014 at 21:00
  • @GonzaloContento : One of the goal of SO was to build a good database of knowlwedge splitting it into several languages that peoples won’t be able to read (which is sure to append compared to english) break it. Commented Dec 31, 2014 at 10:41
4

This job looks perfect for me. I'm a developer experienced with a a big variety of computer languages like assembly, C, C++, Ruby, Java, Perl, Php, PLSQL and so on. I also have experience with different platforms like Linux, Windows, MacOS, Aix, Solaris, netbsd, etc.

I'm Brazilian, but I lived in Madrid for 15 years and now I'm in UK. I worked my whole life as a trainer in Spain, and I also have the DELE certification (Spanish certification).

I also have experience reviewing technical books and I just started writing my first book (a Swift book).

I've been using SO for 2 years, and also asked and replied questions on other stack exchange sites, like server fault and DBA.

3

As a native spanish speaker I have had mixed feelings about having "localized" versions of StackOverflow.

Being an enthusiast of StackOverflow as the best community-driven/curated knowledge base, I used to think that it was a terrible idea to split the lingua franca knowledge base (the original SO) into a big one base with a few "impure" satellites.

However, at least in Spain, there is an inconvenient truth/fact:

  • Generally speaking, we have below average English skills. This map showing the percentage of the population being able to hold a conversation in English was quite popular in Spanish online/offline media as a confirmation of our poor English skills.

Besides, there are many Spanish communities related with technology: javaHispano, linuxHispano, etc. targeting all the Spanish speaking countries.

There is even a "stackOverflow-Spanish"-alike web, showing that there many developers willing to have a localized version of StackOverflow. As an example, in the welcome post in March 2013, there is a comment saying that:

"Felicitaciones por este proyecto, espero que se conviertan en el StackOverflow hispano"


"Congratulations on this project, I hope you will become the Spanish StackOverflow".

Summing up, there are people willing to have a Spanish StackOverflow and as Renan pointed out in his answer, the key for a successful Spanish StackOverflow (or for any othe language) is that we can develop some good communications channels/patterns between the main StackOveflow and the localized versions.

Taking all the above into account, I no longer think the Spanish Stack Overflow is such a bad idea :-)

0

I'm from Portugal, and I'm willing to help the ptSO, if you guys from SO think that's a good idea just tell me. I already have online moderation experience in some websites.

2
  • 3
    Hey dippas, just visit Stack Overflow em Português, the site is open to the public.
    – bfavaretto
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 2:15
  • Ya I'm aware of that, that's why I say that I'm available to help the ptSO on moderation
    – dippas
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 19:23
0

I think a lot of the posts are missing a very important part of the issue: Community.

It's true that most of us, that already speak English good enough to use and participate on SO, probably won't use esSO for finding answers. And I also agree that for any developer to have a good level of english is a very important skill.

But I am pretty sure that there are millions of non-english speakers that use SO to find answers anyway, because they have enough level to read some english or at least to read code (I know many!). And it's that group of people, a passive group of SO users, that are not part of the community, who will automatically jump to the localized one.

To me SO is much much more than a simple Questions and Answers site, and is that why I think this proposal make so much sense, it will give the opportunity to this group of people to be part of the SO community using their own language.

I agree that it's very important to avoid knowledge fragmentation, but all this people that are not asking or answering for fear of not being understood are loosing their chance of being part of SO, and that means that we are actually losing knowledge, that's even worse than fragmentation. I also think that there's going to be a lot of people willing to translate questions to another languages (I will happily do it!, we can have a new set of badges for this :D!) so in the end fragmentation will just be a temporal issue.

0

I think that people need to think deeper than "Everybody speaks English, SO en Español would be useless".

To make it clear, I would vote YES to the proposition of creating a Spanish SO. I am originally from Mexico City, and I lived there for some time. My point is that, for those who have not had the possibility to study English as a second language, SO en Español could be very beneficial. For example, Mexico City is the biggest city in the world (extension-wise) and believe it or not, some public schools do not even require students to take a second language as part of their core education. And I am not only talking about middle schools or high schools, but public colleges that are guided towards Engineering and Sciences as well. And this is only Mexico city, which is the most developed city in Mexico. In other regions of the country, not only STEM related students but also students in general struggle to learn a second language due to economic hardship and other reasons. That was only a one-country example. What about the rest of the latin american countries? Spanish (Spain) nationals who are in the same situation? I must emphasize that SO en Español might be useless for those who at least might have a very basic knowledge of English, but it would be gold to those who have not had the chance to learn it and can only speak Spanish. SO en Español would reach out to those kind of people who, believe me, are out there and are not just two or three hundred people.

I am in the best disposition to help if you guys need anything, like translating stuff or something.

Just my two cents here!

Cheers!

0

i speak spanish as native language but i think the same as others comment here:

for example :

  • Having English as language for the comunity will benefit the largest possible number of people.
  • The code, sdks, methods, etc are primarily in english.
  • English it's the main technical language for programmers and software engineers.

Personally don´t agree with a new Spanish Stackoverflow, well i never thought to have a Portuguese Stack Overflow! ಠ_ಠ

Personally I´m not afraid of or it doesn´t affect me but Why we need the same question in Spanish? We must close the Question with "This question has been asked before and already has an answer." or with ""Esta pregunta se ha hecho antes y ya tiene una respuesta." "

Well probably in the future we could have Stack Overflow in Russian/Chinese/Huichol/Mazahua/Kinyarwanda/Czech/Javanese...

Hey! I´d like to have an Stack Overflow in javanese! =)

Quiero Javanes!

-1

Funny how this job does NOT use careers.stackexchange.com, but is in Jobvite instead. I'll consider applying anyway, as it tickles my curiosity.

1
  • 1
    Victor, glad you're applying! It's only in Jobvite because (today) Careers is only set up for Developer or SA roles, so we can't easily use it for Community Manager ones, even though we're often hiring devs in that space.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:36
-1

SPANISH

Por que hacerlo tan complicado?

Aquí hay otro plan.

  1. Las preguntas se pueden hacer en cualquier idioma. Indicando y/o Detectando Cual.
  2. La Audiencia selecciona el idioma o los idiomas que prefiere ver.
  3. Si Alguien que lee preguntas en español y sabe ingles, cree que es una buena pregunta, la traduce bien, de forma clara y obtiene alguna reputación por hacerlo. Esto evitaría que usuarios como yo vayamos al traductor de Google. Subiría la Calidad y Claridad de las Preguntas por que la gente que no sabe ingles, puede preguntar en su lengua madre, donde piensa con claridad.
  4. Lo mismo aplica a las respuestas.
  5. Así Tendríamos un único StackOverflow.

Si alguien cree que es una buena idea, por favor traducir abajo. No recibirá +2 por que estamos en Meta ;). Pero el traductor de Google hizo un desastre con este texto.

Gracias

ENGLISH

Why make it so complicated?

Here's another plan.

  1. Questions can be in any language, indicating and/or (automatically) detecting which one.
  2. Users select the language(s) they prefer to see.
  3. If someone sees a question in Spanish and knows English, and believes that it's a good question, they can translate it clearly, and earn some reputation for doing so. This will prevent users like me from (having to go /) going to Google Translate. The quality and clarity of questions would increase because people who don't know English can ask in their mother tongue, where they think more clearly.
  4. The same applies to answers.
  5. Thus we would have a single, unified Stack Overflow.

If someone thinks this is a good idea, please translate the above. You won't receive +2 because we're on Meta. ;) But Google Translate is a disaster with this text.

Thanks.

3
  • 2
    We did discuss this approach, but it's much harder in two ways: the more important is that it would be pretty much impossible to guarantee a critical mass in every language, so that every question and answer did get translated. Secondly, designing an interface that allows multiple languages for content (and the interface itself), and building in mechanics for evaluating the correctness of a translation, becomes very, very messy very quickly.
    – Laura Staff
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:05
  • @Laura muchas gracias! entiendo. no me sorprende que ya lo hallan pensado. thank you very much! I understand. no wonder they are already thought. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:31
  • I think the big problem is that people who do not know an answer tend to misunderstand the question. And people who misunderstand the question are very likely to mistranslate it. Translating answers is less problematic. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 15:04
-3

For a moment, let's set aside the language part and concentrate on the actual question. Fluent in Spanish? We're hiring a Community Manager for a Spanish Stack Overflow. This is certainly a question which should be posted on a Job portal (careers 2.0 ?). The question is clearly a job posting. So, it should be closed.

Next, coming back to the language part and the actual idea behind this question, I feel that it's really bad. Currently, thousands of people whose native language is not English (I am one of them) come on SO (SE) to ask / answer questions. Language has never been a barrier here and it should remain that way.

The problem with Spanish SO? Many people who know Spanish might prefer to go and answer questions there. So, there is a pretty good chance that the same question might get answer on Spanish SO and not on (English) SO. You are creating a nuisance where none exists.

28
  • 8
    Have you got any data supporting this "thousands of people whose native language is not English...Language has never been a barrier here and it should remain that way."?
    – Omar
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 8:36
  • 10
    @Omar: evidence does not need data IMHO. If they cannot read language manuals anad docs written in English, they will be terribly lost in the IT world. Can you show any useful programmer without understanding those? I am not a native speaker, yet looking back at my 5-6 years old posts, I did get the stuff even if my grammar was not completely correct. Having said that, I do agree it may help some people, but surely we lose out more than we gain. Therefore, English brings more to the world overall. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 8:37
  • 12
    @Omar- I've seen several hundred questions in which the OP mentions English is not my native language. These questions were not judged based on the OP's language, they were judged based on their content. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 8:39
  • 6
    @TheLostMind and many of them were closed "unclear what you're asking".
    – Omar
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 8:55
  • 11
    +1000. If you are a specialist in a programming topic, chances are you know how to speak English. In which case, I want your expertise on SO. I don't want to learn that a tricky issue was solved on pt.so or another language so site, and not on SO. You have 100+ Stack Exchange sites, most of them would benefit greatly from localization (money, cooking, ...). Pick one. Any one, but SO.
    – VonC
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 8:58
  • 3
    @VonC - Exactly. Programming itself has grown beyond the barriers posed by natural languages. This question is winding time backwards. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 9:06
  • 8
    The Area 51 proposals for these site have reached the criteria for launch, therefore SE has to do all it can to get these sites launched.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 9:19
  • 21
    We've had the argument about whether language-localised versions of SO should happen. Your side lost. Please accept that loss gracefully, and stop whinging every time non-English versions of SO are mentioned.
    – TRiG
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 11:03
  • 3
    I'm with you. Is there going to be an English post on English-SO created with every foreign language thread, at the same time? What if it's flagged? Will it be closed/flagged/etc on every different language SO site? What if I go to Google a question, and there's only a Spanish answer and I don't understand it? +1 to the folks who pointed out all documentation is initially written in (sometimes only) English.
    – Mark C.
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:29
  • 1
    @OverMind "What if I go to Google a question, and there's only a <language I don't understand> answer and I don't understand it?"
    – Lamak
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 16:41
  • 3
    @OverMind generally speaking, the onus is on the message creator to ensure proper transmission of the message. because lamak misunderstood your poorly-constructed syntax, you should consider re-wording and not simply insulting him.
    – swasheck
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:15
  • 3
    @OverMind "I applaud your brain's ability to formulate what I said ..." is a back-handed "compliment." Don't pretend that it wasn't. If you want to get into message parsing here, I'll gladly illustrate how I arrived at this conclusion, but I'd rather you edit your comment
    – swasheck
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:18
  • 5
    @VerMind "I am saying if I have a question, and there's a thread on SO regarding it, but the answer isn't in English, how is that benefitting the general public, when code is in English?" It's not. it's benefiting the public that speaks that (other) language. The same holds true for all English SO sites. They are not benefiting the general public. They are benefiting the English speaking public. Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:21
  • 5
    @OverMind "Code" isn't in english (even if most of the commands and syntax uses english words), it's still in a programming language. The formulation of the question and the answer may be in another language, but not really the code
    – Lamak
    Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:22
  • 4
    @OverMind No, that is not what I'm saying, of course. I'm just saying that English SO is not benefiting the general public. It's benefiting only the English speakers, even those that have basic knowledge. But there are others that do not understand English at all. Or understand a bit but not enough to post an understable question. It's the other way around, too. SO cannot be helped by those that are great programmers but not have English knowledge. We are missing some great answers by them. Why not provide them a site they can do this? Commented Sep 24, 2014 at 17:59
-4

I would NEVER go to StackOverflow in spanish. I'm argentinian, living in Spain for the time being. And that would be terrible. I get there is a large amount of people that don't know english in Spain, but the percentage of those people among programmers is almost null. I mean, how can you program whatever and not know english!?!

Besides, how many experts do we have in spanish? How many really good employees from really good companies speak spanish? We wouldn't even have 1% of the "pros" we have in SO. So, when it comes to reliability on the answer, and even speed on comments, I would pick the original-english-allmighty-SO before any other.

That's my oppinion though, feel free to comment ;)

EDIT: I just had an idea, comment it bellow.

I think the solution would be to hire translators, to translate one non-english-speaking-person's question to the original (english) SO, and vice-versa if needed. Furthermore, I think we should accept non-english answers in the original, and let the community handle the translation process. We have here plenty of people to do that. We can even translate back the answers! This way we keep all the precious "brain" here, while attending to people with needs outside the english language.

7
  • I'm argentinian too and i think the same. English is the "de facto" language for programming related questions, and by this we have questions and answers from all around the world, and that is precisely the strength of this site. Creating and SO Spanish/Portuguese/Russian/Chinense/etc version, it's a totally nonsense IMHO. Commented Sep 28, 2014 at 2:01
  • i'm argentinian but disagree. The Spanish is before English as an international language in Latin America. Latin America is the weakest of all regions on english spoken. This site can enhance the level of Hispanic speakers programmers. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 7:02
  • 1
    @rnrneverdies I beg to differ. While I realize this might be true in case of the general population, I don't think those statistics hold for the subset of educated population. And a programmer, up to a point, has at least basic education in his/her poket. Besides, I'm not saying that we can't have a spanish SO, I'm just saying it's not going to be nearly as useful, reliable or concurred as the original. And also it's going to take "brain" away from the original, to put it somewhere else. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 7:35
  • "the subset of educated population".. jaajaa... xenophobia 100%. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 15:15
  • Anyway, there are other topics besides programming, ripe for using an stack site: cooking, parenting, politics, literature… just to name a few. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:04
  • @VictorJalencas - It doesn't talk here about SE in spanish, just SO. If that's the case, then by all means. Although we're still losing people here... Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:08
  • I agree that it's almost impossible to be a programmer without knowing english, but directing efforts toward spanish programming communities aims to make it possible.
    – TZubiri
    Commented Sep 7, 2016 at 21:37
-5

Tanenbaum argues his books are translated into 2 different editions in Spanish one for Spain and other for Latin American countries.


(source: cs.vu.nl)


(source: cs.vu.nl)

I don't know whether it happens in Portugal's and Brazil's Portuguese, but there are several computer related semes that have different words in both sides of the "pond". Some words are even taboo in some countries (such as coger)

This should be handled/managed by the candidate.

3
  • 7
    No, I think this should be handled by the community. About 50% of everyday's terms and expressions in Portugal are sexual slangs in Brazil (don't ask), yet Portuguese speakers around the world get along just fine. I speak Spanish and I think the fact that what is a beak to some is a penis to others has never caused any problems here in South America.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Sep 26, 2014 at 17:11
  • Coger is like F@ck in english! ಠ_ಠ
    – Jorgesys
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:16
  • 3
    @Elenasys but only in some Spanish speaking countries. In other it just means "take".
    – J.A.I.L.
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 18:55

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