-12

I’ve read many Meta questions that ask for advice with improving poorly-received Stack Overflow questions. The authors seem to be posting in good faith and putting forth honest attempts to learn and grow by asking for feedback. Yet their Meta questions are often heavily downvoted. How come?

Based on what I’ve seen,

  • the ones that get downvoted are about SO questions that are of pretty poor quality
  • the ones that get upvoted are about SO questions that are almost good

I guess Meta users vote on “how do I improve this specific (downvoted) question” questions based on the qualities of the Stack Overflow questions that the askers want to receive feedback about. This behavior makes no sense to me; they’re all on Meta to try and learn from constructive criticism about their questions. Even if a Stack Overflow question is unsalvageable, there’s nothing wrong with asking what’s wrong with it and how to be better next time. Having asked a bad question is precisely the reason to go on Meta to learn how to make one’s question(s) better.

Am I missing something? Why do meta questions about learning and improving get downvoted so often?

Examples:


Apparently, quite a few Meta users regard this sort of meta questions as whining/complaining about downvotes/rep-loss. I just don’t see it this way. I see genuine inquiries for (1) understanding the reasons that some questions were poorly received by the community and (2) learning to improve these questions (and to ask better questions down the road). I don’t find them whiny at all. What am I getting wrong about the culture in the Meta Stack Overflow community? Is it actually frowned-upon to ask for feedback on poorly-received questions? Are questions asking for feedback on particular low-score questions often perceived as whining, and why?

10
  • 11
    Complaints about downvotes get downvoted. So do complaints that no reason accompanied a downvote.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 7:50
  • @CodyGray What I see are genuine inquiries for (1) understanding the reasons that some questions were poorly received by the community and (2) learning to improve these questions (and to ask better questions down the road). I don’t think they’re complaints at all.
    – clickbait
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 7:56
  • 8
    Several of these relate to questions that are hopelessly incompatible with SO. It's not a matter of "improvement", it seems the OPs don't even know what the goal of SO is. Others may know but still haven't done the basics like reading and acting on the close message. If we're here to learn, as you say, then you picked several examples where there is little evidence of that.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 7:57
  • 9
    I've seen several (most?) of such improvement questions getting downvotes for either of these three reasons: the question wouldn't exist if OP had bothered to read the help page for on-topic questions; OP pretended that there is no feedback why their question was either downvoted or closed, although it is obviously not true; OP requests comments/reasons for downvotes and that's usually a delicate matter. One additional minor reason could be that OP asked for improvements because they received one down or close vote, some user see that as overhasty and not really needed.
    – Tom
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:12
  • 8
    Why do meta questions get downvoted? Because they are not deemed useful by some users. That isn't any different across all sites in the network, in case you didn't know.
    – rene
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:14
  • 16
    You and I apparently have a very different understanding of the term "genuine inquiries". Looking at the last question you cited as an example, the user there pretty much just says they are confident their questions are clear, so they don't see any basis for downvoting. That kind of arrogance doesn't play well on Meta. People don't downvote arbitrarily and for no reason. And aside from the intentions of individual users, we get a lot of complaints on Meta about downvotes (an average of 2-3 per day), so it just gets old. Uninteresting and/or not-useful questions get downvoted.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:45
  • 10
    Counter-examples (asking here on Meta for advice on how to improve a question on the main site, but not heavily downvoted): meta.stackoverflow.com/q/391162, meta.stackoverflow.com/q/392022, meta.stackoverflow.com/q/405042, meta.stackoverflow.com/q/354784, meta.stackoverflow.com/q/260713, meta.stackoverflow.com/q/341183 ... and those are just the ones I could find easily (pulled from my own profile page, since I answered them). I know there are dozens more that were positively-received here on Meta. So there must be a difference in tone.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 9:01
  • 4
    "Is it actually frowned-upon to ask for feedback on poorly-received questions?" - No, but it is frowned-upon to whine. And the difference is usually clear. See Cody's list of counter-examples ...
    – Stephen C
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 10:15
  • @StephenC The difference isn’t clear to me; I don’t find any of my examples whiny.
    – clickbait
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 10:35
  • 1
    Here is another recent counter example.
    – E_net4
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 11:43

1 Answer 1

17

First of all, to re-iterate What is Meta

Voting is different on meta.

Now it does say that only on we're supposed to express disagreement by down-voting but I'm pretty sure that guidance is ignored by a few. After all, the vote is mine, and mine only. Nobody has to decide for me how or when to vote.

Meta questions get downvoted when the OP shows a lack of understanding of how a Q/A site works, what Meta is or what it is meant for, show no prior research, glorifies their own effort over others, and/or gives the impression they are entitled to a certain outcome (upvotes, re-open votes, celebrate their bug / FR).

Let's go over your examples (yes, I'm that bored):

Whining about down votes

Never read the Help Center on what is on-topic on main

insulting the community in the first few revisions

Lacks explanation why they think the question is any good

whining about a single downvote on an opinion-based question

Improve all my questions for me because I'm question banned

Unsalvageable question due to its nature. A valid answer to that meta question is a repeat of the help center article on What is on topic.

This is probably the only mishap. I would even argue that it got incorrectly migrated to Meta but it is doubtful any other visitor will ever face the same issue the OP has and therefor the question is less useful.

whining 8 days later about two downvotes after the question got answered AND closed as a duplicate with two dupe targets. How much time does the Meta community need to invest in this clear case of lack of prior research? The meta effect on their SO question is a less welcome side-effect.

I skipped Why my questions immediately getting Downvotes? How to improve? because I'm involved there, I have answered and edited the question.

Questions on Meta about learning and improving are not received well because they often fail to explain what the OP learned so far and/or what they specifically want to improve on. Learn me asking a good question or improve my question without a sensible context are not useful. Such questions can only be answered by re-iterating generic guidance or broad directions. That is not helpful for the OP let alone for any future visitors. Therefore, such questions are downvoted and rightfully so.

2
  • 3
    You don't even have to bring up the debate about whether non-feature requests should be downvoted for "disagreement". These Q&A aren't being downvoted for disagreement, but rather as a commentary on their non-usefulness, which is directly in the tooltip, not even buried in the Help Center.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 9:03
  • 7
    @CodyGray I covered all my bases ...
    – rene
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 9:04

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .