23

Every day I can see many questions about MySQL tagged . I fix it several times per day, but we can not explain to all users the difference between SQL Server and MySQL.

Maybe we should rename to something more obvious, or ?

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  • 9
    How about renaming mysql to oracle-mysql then, too? =)
    – J. Steen
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 6:49
  • 16
    mysql is a clearly defined database server. SQL Server is a general term (like Database) and I think it is incorrect that we use this tag for SQL Server of MS. Anyway I have not seen people who asked about MS SQL and use mysql, bu every day I see many questions about MySQl with sql-server
    – ceth
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 6:53
  • 3
    Every day I see many questions about Oracle with MySQL or SQL without mentioning what RDBMS they're using at all... I don't see how this is any different?
    – Ben
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 6:59
  • 3
    @Ben, you are talking about the problem, but you don't offer any solution of this promlem. Do you ?
    – ceth
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 7:02
  • 1
    Read the first comment on the MSE question you linked; there is no easy solution (also read Aaron's answer). The problem is often the OP not knowing what they're using/doing, for which there is no technical solution.
    – Ben
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 7:06
  • 7
    This proposal seems an easy, simple way of discouraging users from misapplying the sql-server tag. +1
    – AndrewC
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:57
  • 3
    +1. Since I seldom touch MS SQL server, whenever I encounter "SQL server", it always makes me think which SQL server?
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 10:09
  • 2
    @Ben, this is different because of the way the expression "SQL server" is used. When people say, "we'll store that in the/our SQL server", it's generally not product specific. In contrast, when they say "we'll store that in SQL Server", they refer to MS SQL Server 99% of the time (often without even thinking that this can be ambiguous).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 10:20
  • 3
    @Bruno that's not really something people say (hopefully) who know anything about databases. Just because it's common, if ignorant, usage doesn't mean we should design our tags around it.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 12:51
  • 4
    @JNK, I'm afraid I've heard that sort of phrasing many times, maybe not those exact words, but even coming from people who know reasonably well what they're doing. It's just that they're so used to an MS-only environment that the notion you may be talking of other types of SQL servers doesn't necessarily occur to them at first. "Oracle" is somewhat less ambiguous. People often talk about "Oracle" when referring to their SQL server, but at least it's clear it's a brand name (and generally from the context, they're not referring to other Oracle products).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:00
  • 4
    @JNK, do you mean talking of a "SQL server" (not "SQL Server") isn't common phrasing amongst database professionals? (We see to agree on that fact MS SQL Server professionals refer to it simply as "SQL Server".) That may be true, but remember the users on SO might be developers without being DBAs. To them, a "SQL server" may just be whatever server they can query with SQL.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:09
  • 5
    @Bruno Should we retag all web development questions with "Chrome" then since I get to my web pages that way? We're arguing about semantics here when in fact this proposal will not address the actual root cause of the issue.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:11
  • 6
    This improvement I suggested would fix this.
    – Kermit
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:13
  • 4
    @JNK you mean google-chrome off course ;) Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:15
  • 2
    So, I guess the solution would be to rename Microsoft SQL Server to something. Not the tag but the product.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:06

6 Answers 6

16

As a mod on the Database site I have some familiarity with this kind of issue, and the kind of askers who will make the mistake.

I do not think this will have any impact whatsoever.

The people who misapply the sql-server tag are not paying any attention to what they are doing when they tag the question, period.

Lest we forget, all the tags have nice helpful messages when you type into the tag dialog at the bottom of the question. As of about 30 seconds ago, this is a screenshot of the first 3 entries when you type sql:

enter image description here

The very first word under sql-server is Microsoft. The first word.

This is not a tag clarity issue, it's a user issue that won't be solved by renaming a tag.

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  • 12
    I actually doubt that the people making those mistakes necessarily pay attention to the small prints under the tag, unfortunately. Making the tag name more explicit would probably help.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 14:48
  • 7
    @Bruno What makes you think they will pay more attention to ms- than they would to the word Microsoft directly below the tag? The point is, they aren't paying attention at all.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 14:51
  • 3
    It's in the name, you have to type it... Especially is sql-server is blacklisted, they'll have to think about what they mean by "SQL [sS]server".
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 14:55
  • 7
    @Bruno they won't, that's the problem. Believe me I deal with this a lot and have had to think about it a great deal. Additionally, very few people who deal with SQL Server professionally ever call it "MS SQL Server", it's just "SQL Server" so you are essentially advocating irritating/frustrating/confusing domain experts in favor of catering to a class of askers who by definition are extremely careless and pay little attention to what they are doing.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:00
  • 3
    Ah, yes, so we agree, people who deal with "MS SQL Server" only very rarely call it anything else than "SQL Server". The problem is that people who use other types of SQL servers (MySQL, PostgreSQL, ...) refer to them as their "SQL servers", since it's a more generic term. If when you start typing the tag "sql-server" it autosuggests "ms-sql-server" or "microsoft-sql-server", those who really mean "MS SQL Server" would obviously find what they know and need, those who meant it in a non-specific way would have to re-think. Better clarify for both parties.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:05
  • 9
    @Bruno Why do you keep saying that MySQL or Postgresql are "SQL Servers"?, they are not, they are "relational database management systems". And one of them is SQL Server (which is from Microsoft)
    – Lamak
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:07
  • 2
    MySQL and Postgres are RDBMS, not servers. The server is the box or VM that the database instance lives on. The product is called "SQL Server". Do we have "MS-CSharp" or "MS-ASP.NET" tags or is the company inferred from the product name? You're advocating solving the wrong problem here, which is that the people who ask these questions and incorrectly tag them do not pay attention to what they are doing.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:08
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    The term "SQL Server" is coined and trademarked by Microsoft. I have never spoken with or chatted with anyone that while talking about other DBMS referenced them as "SQL server".
    – user847990
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:11
  • 4
    I'm not disagreeing with you when you talk about people who know what they're talking about. I'm saying some developers who are not necessarily idiots, but who are not in the field and trying to learn by asking questions, would make this sort of mistake when tagging their questions on SO, even if it's otherwise a good question.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:13
  • 6
    "MySQL and Postgres are RDBMS, not servers. The server is the box or VM that the database instance lives on." Hum... not really, "server" can either mean the box or the software that's listening to client connections. Package names and descriptions (e.g. mysql-server: "MySQL is a fast, stable and true multi-user, multi-threaded SQL database server.") can lead to confusion.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:18
  • 4
    @Lamak, as I was saying earlier, all the people I know who use "MS SQL Server" refer to it as "SQL Server" (I think we'd agree on that), the problem is that there's also a completely different group of people who've only ever used MySQL for example, and who've never had much exposure to "SQL Server" who use "SQL server" more loosely. They're not necessarily idiots who haven't research enough, they've just stayed in their MySQL environment without realising this terminology issue at all. This is what a tag rename would help with.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 15:26
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    @Lamak, there's surely fewer people who'd make that confusion. All I'm saying is that people who know what they're talking about will only use sql-server for the MS product. However, for people who don't quite know the database world (and many askers will be in that category, without being stupid), it's quite easy to get confused (as I said above "MySQL is a [...] SQL database server" is a package description). It's quite easy to drop the "database" word from there, especially when you're not aware of "MS" SQL Server. (...)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:47
  • 5
    Even Wikipedia doesn't help: "SQL Server may refer to: - Any database server that implements the Structured Query Language, - Microsoft SQL Server, a relational database server from Microsoft, [...]". I'm certainly not saying Wikipedia or other sources are right, I'm just saying that it's legitimate to expect some askers to be confused.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:52
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    @Deduplicator More like: Anyone who pays any attention to what they are doing when they apply tags has no issue with the current terminology. Anyone who DOES won't be helped by this change since they are already not paying attention.
    – JNK
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 12:06
  • 3
    To sum up; 4 people with 12k total upvotes in the SQL tag are against this request. Everyone else who's against has less than 1k total. If you exclude GolzeTrol it's more like 300. The people who actually interact with the tag are against the change the people who don't are in favour...
    – Ben
    Commented Jul 18, 2014 at 14:34
0

Disagree.

SQL Server is the name of a product, like OSX, or Excel. No one says Google Android, it's just Android.

The term SQL Server has no technical meaning anyway. I could understand your point if Microsoft had called the product "Database Server" or "RDBMS Server".

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  • A SQL server is any database server that uses SQL, not just the MS one. That MS can't name things is nothing new. Commented Jul 21, 2023 at 15:39
-2

I'm in favor of renaming the tag to ms-sql-server. The other tags should not necessarily be renamed to, but sql server sounds so generic that it confused users.

I don't worry about the tag being unfindable, because when you start typing anything in the tag box, it suggests all tags that contain the typed text. So people who type sql-server will automatically find ms-sql-server.

Of course people will make mistakes mizing up other RDBMSses as well, but my feeling is that those errors are significantly less frequent.

-2

I support the renaming to but we should make sure that is NOT a synonym of it (I'd recommend blacklisting it because of its ambiguity) or it won't help a lot.

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  • 6
    I'd say blacklisting sql-server would be a requirement for this to work. This would also have the positive effect of encouraging askers to specify which RDBMS they're using.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 10:22
-2

I really want someone pay attention to this question. I'm tired of asking OPs: "Do you mean Microsoft SQL Server or MySQL?" I request moderators to change all sql-server-???? to mssql-????. I have thousands of examples which OPs tag sql-server while their question is about other RDBMS.

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    The [sql-server] tag never means MySQL. It is not necessary to ever ask when you see this tag used. It means Microsoft SQL Server.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 2, 2020 at 1:20
  • I'm REALLY wondering how a pro member says this. When someone ask question and uses both MySQL and sql-server tag, it is necessary to ask if which one did he meant, otherwise how we provide the proper answer???
    – FLICKER
    Commented Dec 2, 2020 at 19:51
  • 1
    The problem there is not the [sql-server] tag. It's that someone used two contradictory tags. That problem cannot be fixed through the tag system.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 3, 2020 at 7:10
  • I think the tag system tends to suggest the contradictory tags for sql questions and people just accept the suggestions - that used to be the case last time I tested this anyway Commented Dec 4, 2020 at 13:24
  • @CodyGray-onstrike But the tag name alone [sql-server] and [mysql] aren't contractionary. MySQL is a SQL server, just like any database server that uses SQL. Using the name SQL server to refer to only a single product or only a part of SQL products and not all of them is wrong. Commented Jul 21, 2023 at 15:45
-3

I would like to mention another reason for why it would be a very good idea to drop the tag.

Microsoft SQL Server may be one of the best SQL server products in existence, perhaps even currently the best; however, this does not give Microsoft the right to usurp the term "SQL Server" for their product only. There are many SQL Server products out there, Microsoft's is just one of them. Since about 2001 I have been cringing whenever I hear it being referred to as "SQL Server" as if it was the one and only SQL server, the only true SQL server, the SQL server to rule them all.

The official name of the product is "Microsoft SQL Server", Microsoft made the conscious choice to call it like that, it should be called like that. I guess it is inevitable that it will be abbreviated to just "SQL Server" in casual conversations, (since the official name is a bit of a tongue twister,) but any non-casual mention of the name of the product (such as in a stackexchange tag) should not be adding legitimacy to the usurpation of the term by Microsoft.

Therefore, I propose that the tag be dropped, and replaced with the existing tag, or perhaps even a tag.

(While at it, let us also remove the tag.)

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    Disagree. SQL Server is the name of a product, like OSX, or Excel. No one says Google Android, it's just Android. The term SQL Server has no technical meaning, and is in no way synonymous with Database Server. Commented Feb 15, 2017 at 11:48
  • 2
    @tomredfern no, SQL Server has plenty of technical meaning; all server RDBMSes are SQL Servers. Microsoft SQL Server is not more SQLey than MySQL or Postgress or Oracle are SQLey. They are all things that you send SQL to and receive result sets from. When writing code, the only reason why you are think of yourself as sending your query to your database server, instead of your SQL server, is because the latter term has been appropriated by Microsoft.
    – Mike Nakis
    Commented Feb 15, 2017 at 12:48
  • 1
    @tomredfern: "SQL server" is definitely not synonymous with "database server". The latter term includes relational database servers defined and queried with SQL, relational database servers queried with other syntax, and non-relational database servers. It is a superset of "SQL server".
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 19:18
  • @BenVoigt - as I said, the terms are not synonymous. Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 20:47
  • 1
    @tomredfern: Yet it does have a meaning as a generic term, despite your comment claiming it does not. "SQL server" is a smaller category than "database server" but a larger category than "Microsoft SQL Server" (and strictly speaking, "Microsoft SQL Server" is not even an SQL server because its query language is T-SQL which does not support the entire SQL international standard).
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 20:52

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