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It seems that third-party developer groups are starting to use Stack Overflow as their "official" central point of contact / support.

I first saw this with the Google Drive SDK tag, and even their website indicates this is the preferred support mechanism.

Now there is the SONY tag.

I'm not sure I like this trend. We end up with crap questions like this one, and as Juhana put it so well:

People post crap questions, they're ridiculed and closed, and it reflects badly on the company.

The revision history for the SONY wiki points us to this Tonni Larsen individual who seems to be responsible in this case.

Is this acceptable use of Stack Overflow?

I can imagine a number of on-topic, useful questions related to these tags. However, I also feel that their very existence (again, picking on SONY here) will lead to even more crap questions than we already get.

I'm not sure when the page was created, but the help section now has a page titled "Can I support my product on this site?"


Other projects that do this:


Edit 5/14/2014: Questions like this one about a SoundCloud (non-API) feature are yet another unpleasant side-effect: Users don't understand the difference between product support and API support. They think Stack Overflow is the place to go for all of their problems with the product.

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    It's pretty simple. The questions will have to fit our rules. If they do, that's great. If they don't, close/delete as appropriate. So if companies provide active support here for on-topic questions, great. The Sony tag itself however doesn't seem to be an appropriate one. That is under discussion here
    – Bart
    Commented May 3, 2014 at 8:31
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    @Bart Perhaps I should be complaining specifically about SONY then, as I've never really noticed a problem with Drive SDK questions. Commented May 3, 2014 at 8:32
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    The Plone project (OSS) also does this; it points to Stack Overflow as one option for support. On the whole, this has worked out well; the majority of people do check out how to ask questions properly first. Commented May 3, 2014 at 8:45
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    Bottom line, if it reflects badly on the company then that's that company's problem, not ours! Commented May 3, 2014 at 8:45
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    There could be tags for specific SDKs including some from Sony. However, a tag for sony in a programming Q&A site doesn't seem right. Commented May 3, 2014 at 16:32
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    One of the problem with this integration (from Sony) is that it barely makes it clear SO isn't a Sony site. What's quite odd in this particular question is that it starts with "Hello Sony Development team", but it's asked by someone who's been an SO member for more than a year and has already asked 16 questions (so should know the site, really).
    – Bruno
    Commented May 3, 2014 at 16:43
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    @JakeGould: I don't see any reason to treat users differently purely based on how they got here.They are all given the same introduction pages. Commented May 3, 2014 at 17:24
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    We should encourage companies who do this to teach users to ask appropriate questions if they use SO as a tool.
    – Luigi
    Commented May 3, 2014 at 18:22
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    I may be just missing a point here, but the example used as a bad question "Is there Smart Card API included in Sony Xperia Z2 like in Sony Xperia S?" was closed as not programming related - how is the programming api not programming related? Or how is the question crap?
    – eis
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 9:26
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    1) when I see something like answers.opencv.org I get the creeps. 2) a developer doesn't know SO who is somehow capable of English, is that possible? 3) then isn't it a good chance to get people posting on SO? teach them the etiquette?
    – auselen
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 12:05
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    i think microsoft was/is guilt of this with azure. i remember a semi-heated debate with someone's question because it was nothing to do with programming but the user was claiming it was on topic bc microsoft said to post it there. Commented May 5, 2014 at 12:11
  • I have seen at least a dozen open-source projects that link to StackOverflow as one of their primary support methods, including Kohana, Durandal.js (scroll down to "community"), and others that I don't recall off the top of my head.
    – Moshe Katz
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:53
  • Facebook does it too, for their Unity SDK: "Please post feedback on Stack Overflow using the tag facebook-unity-sdk. We appreciate your help." developers.facebook.com/docs/unity/downloads
    – Khakionion
    Commented May 8, 2014 at 1:15
  • Quickblox pulls these shenanigans, too, telling users on the page I linked to use the "Quickblox" tag here. Commented May 11, 2014 at 11:13

6 Answers 6

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I feel this is very wrong:

https://developer.sony.com/support/

You can easily find (...) answers (...) by going to our Stack Overflow page.

And above all:

https://developer.sony.com/support/stack-overflow/

Altough we can be proud of being referenced by a top-level company, I do not want to give the impression that I am affiliated with Sony if I ever happened to answer to such a question. And I certainly do not want Sony to take any credit for it.

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    I think they're missing the oportunity to promote good questions in their guide how-to-post-tag-a-question.
    – brasofilo
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 15:47
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    It's the "our" that bothers me. Commented Jun 26, 2014 at 18:36
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    Their own misleading portal will die as soon as the sony tag gets burninated, since it assumes all their tags of interest are accompanied by a generic sony tag.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 26, 2014 at 18:39
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    @BenVoigt, Don't think that's going to happen. There's over half a thousand questions there now. SE (as a company) don't seem to like to "mess" with the big boys as they would simply run to Quora and that would be a disadvantage to SE in the SE-Quora battle. While it's not apparent to us "old dogs", this site has a very real risk of being irrelevant in future generations.
    – Pacerier
    Commented Jan 10, 2015 at 8:26
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    I have just run out of close votes going through the most recent [sony] questions. I could not find even one good question. Almost all were off topic.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Mar 11, 2015 at 23:17
  • Links no longer work
    – Mote Zart
    Commented Nov 18, 2021 at 0:35
53

I think this comment from Bart hits the nail on the head:

In previous such instances where there was a particularly problematic/confusing direction to SO by a 3rd party, they have been contacted and asked to clarify the information on their site.

The primary responsibility for clarifying the relationship between a project and Stack Overflow lies with the project - they should be making clear that Stack Overflow is not officially affiliated with them, and that their staff are contributing to it along with independent volunteers. Moreover, they should be encouraging people to ask good questions within the rules of Stack Overflow, not according to some guidelines of their own.

I had a discussion in the comments of one question where the project was using SO to host effectively an FAQ, and a user was drafting the question in the knowledge that the project owner would come and give the best answer later. This struck me as basically OK, except that the style of the question felt like it wasn't really part of SO, just using it as a convenient publishing space.

Perhaps what is needed are some official guidelines - akin to those on attributing re-licensed material - for projects who want to use SO as an officially approved channel of communication.

Big companies like Google and Sony are likely to be very respectful of other people's official guidelines, and small projects who are genuinely doing their best can be politely contacted if they are found not to be following them.

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    Agreed except that I kind of feel like big companies like Google ought to be able to host their own sites - unless they are trying to get volunteers to provide some of their customer support, which isn't good either.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 23:34
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    "I had a discussion in the comments of one question where the project was using SO to host effectively an FAQ, and a user was drafting the question in the knowledge that the project owner would come and give the best answer later." People need to be very careful about doing this, because it could be regarded as a form of spam. See Is self-promotional question tagging allowed? If not, how do you handle it?.
    – user456814
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 4:54
  • @Cupcake That's a good point and link to put in the "guidelines for third-parties wishing to use StackOverflow to support their products".
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 11:14
  • @IMSoP Does this "guidelines" document exist anywhere, or are you talking about a hypothetical one? Commented May 14, 2014 at 22:00
  • @JonathonReinhart To quote myself, just above: "Perhaps what is needed are some official guidelines". So no, as far as I know, it doesn't exist yet.
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 14, 2014 at 22:03
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Speaking as one who tried doing the same at one point on the WordPress forums and SE, I'd suggest from experience that the problem will solve itself fairly quickly if it's not actively shut down. (+1 to delete the Sony tag to give them a hint, obviously, but imo doing so isn't necessary.)

From the business' viewpoint, the advantages of using a public forum are mostly three-fold on paper:

  1. You get to offload trivial or complex questions that aren't directly related to your software, library, SDK or other to a much broader audience.

  2. You get to build awareness of whatever commercial product you're supporting.

  3. You get to become aware of proficient users who you might want to eventually hire.

In practice, these advantages are entirely offset by the terrible user experience:

  1. Users are extremely confused by the user SE/SO interface, format and etiquette.

  2. Users are extremely confused by the fact that they're asking on a public forum instead of reaching out for private one-on-one interactions. To wit, the question you linked to: "Hello Sony Development team," or the fact that many end-users will, in my experience, forget to provide the slightest bit of context or tag their questions.

  3. The community quickly turns hostile if the users regularly spew forth undesirable junk. Crap questions that you or your staff would politely answer irrespective of how bad they are get shot down, down-voted and closed by SE/SO users.

  4. Last but not least the Q&A format is, in fact, a terrible one when it comes to delivering support. What you need is the ability to go back and forth with a client as part of a conversation; not the ability to post and repeatedly edit a single answer. You also need, in some cases, the ability to share access details so you can dive in and see what the client is rambling about first-hand.

In the end, you quickly end up with a stream of not very satisfied to very angry users, whether or not you put a team in charge of staying on top of things 24/7 to provide answers before questions are closed or — worse — deleted. As such, the benefits are simply not worth the drawbacks unless you could not care less about customer satisfaction.

Getting back to your precise question, though, methinks it's acceptable. From the SO point of view, a good question is a good question, and a bad question is a bad question, and it matters little if a commercial entity is monitoring a tag or not.

As you pointed out already, many questions that derive from using SO as a support venue are junk. The hostility towards these questions is, I think, high enough that the company will take note if it cares. Whether Sony does, obviously, is not very likely. But that its user base ends up with crappy support experience as a result of this is not our problem as a community.

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I think it is somewhat bizarre that companies on the scale of Google & Sony would be directing users to Stack Overflow to answer product specific questions, but my attitude is basically: If the question is good, it’s good & if it’s bad, it’s bad.

I don’t think having some kind of Stack Overflow or ban on questions from other sites that direct folks here would be useful. It won’t stop people from posting & will end up being like playing a game of whack a mole with people trying to game the setup.

But perhaps there can be a way to flag items that are explicitly bad questions coming from corporate entities that are explicitly offloading level 1 type questions onto Stack Overflow? That already exists to a degree with the generic “general computing hardware and software” or “the recommend or find a tool, library or favorite off-site resource”, but maybe something more succinct that addresses the fact that some company larger than Stack Overflow has decided to use the community as their “free” first level of tech support?

And to further clarify—using the Plone example; seriously check it out—many users are unintentionally on their part coming here because some company has decided to simply setup a direct link to the “Ask Question” page with a tag preset for their service. Meaning, the customer/user with an issue is some poor schmoe stuck in the middle of this. The user should not be punished, because they are caught in the middle of this, but the outside entities that are doing this to save their support budge by dumping on us should be called out.

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    I think they're pushing people to SO because the community is here. Further, if the question is someone seeking help with something not specific to an SDK (such as language assistance), their answers will already get an audience. The bottom line is, the big companies want developers here so that they know that there is a vibrant support community for the product. This way, they feel that they are not alone. Commented May 3, 2014 at 19:08
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    Except that many of them also hire evangelists and developers to answer questions in their specific tags (Microsoft has quite a few that answer questions in [Windows-store-apps], [winrt-xaml], etc). Relying solely on the community to answer questions is not the ideal situation for them. Commented May 3, 2014 at 19:16
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    Jerry Nixon, Claus Jørgensen, Eric Schmidt, Mike Liddell, Filip Skakun, David Kean. Some of these are developers, others are evangelists (such as Jerry Nixon). That wasn't nearly all of the softies on the site, either. Commented May 3, 2014 at 19:24
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    A very large amount of the questions that are going to be asked during development are going to be simple language questions. Stack Overflow has a huge repository of already answered language questions, along with users that will fill in where there are gaps. The latter is something that any and all of the big companies want to garner (and many of them do, such as the Connect forums), but why build something brand new when there is a fantastic system already in place? SO was designed to solve that very problem as it is. The fact that it's already solved the flywheel problem as well is icing. Commented May 3, 2014 at 19:29
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    To be absolutely clear: Plone is a Open Source Project backed by a non-profit foundation. There is no company there. And as the top Plone question answerer I can tell you that I haven't seen much of any bad posts coming in, plus there is a healthy number of core Plone people answering the questions. Commented May 3, 2014 at 21:28
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    Since Plone is already a volunteer-driven organisation, having a great tool like Stack Overflow to help consolidate great answers to common questions is wonderful, as it saves on the (already) unpaid work. Just sayin'. I came to Stack Overflow because of Plone, but I expanded a little to the more general Python tag.. Commented May 3, 2014 at 21:31
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    I'd much rather Plone and other organizations use something like this as a landing page to encourage people to search the site first... Commented May 4, 2014 at 21:10
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    @GordonGustafson Can you post that comment as an answer? I think it would be a great idea to encourage companies to link to a pretagged search page, rather than a question input page.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 23:40
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Seems like a possible business opportunity for SE. Create a packaged version of the core Q/A platform (if one doesn't already exist), and then say something like "we're sorry, but our terms of service do not permit third-party companies to operate support centers on SE sites; however, for $X you can license our platform and deploy and host your own instance, or for $Y/month you can provision an instance from our first-party cloud-based service".

I imagine it might be necessary to create some additional administrative features around UI customization, account restrictions (open registration enabled/disabled), access constraints (publicly accessible or internal subnets only), identity federation, and so on (or maybe not, since I've no idea what exists presently in terms of internal-admin functionality). But could be a relatively easy win. Although it seems like there's already plenty of competition in that space:

Stack Exchange clones

...arriving late to the party is always difficult.

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  • There is/was such a thing, but the only current offering is "very expensive", "for very large enterprises" and "for internal use only". (See this meta answer). I expect the reason is companies generally aren't willing to pay what it costs to support a their own instance, and of course public instances would take ad revenue away from SO.
    – nobody
    Commented Jun 17, 2014 at 22:27
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    Well why not roll off sub-domains under SO but with less restrictions on questions and for a smaller fee. That would keep ad revenues for SO and make it affordable for companies.
    – Tom Tom
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 7:36
  • Third party companies like to use SO for this kind of support is because of the traffic: there are a lot of people on the site looking for questions to answer. Sony et al are buying into that. Hosting elsewhere (whether via an SE packaged version, an SE subdomain, or a third-party app like Question2Answer) would take those questions away from SO, and thus away the people hanging around on SO answering questions, meaning they'd only ever get answered by users explicitly visiting the Sony site. Which would defeat whole the point of using SO.
    – Simba
    Commented Jun 6, 2016 at 14:21
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To echo but not explicitly follow @aroth, it seems like a fair (if a little ironic, for a closed source platform?) approach might be an alternative commercial class of tag (there may be a better term). Commercial/non-OSS projects caught outsourcing support to SO get their tags closed, or converted into commercial tags.

Commercial tags have alternative moderation/visibility rules to ensure the company isn't externalizing support costs and sucking undue amounts of moderator attention.

It seems like the proper moderation framework in which the company's staff are doing their own house-keeping (and are possibly bound to contribute to the broader community in order to keep their tags) could result in pleasant symbiotic relationships, instead of parasitic ones.

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