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Sometimes askers in the Staging Ground are completely rewriting their questions when their old question is marked as off-topic, duplicate or when they solved their own problem.

Is this behavior ok? Should edits like this be rolled back? Does the post state change anything about it?

This issue was also mentioned in the Staging Ground Discussion/Support chatroom and someone rolled back such an OP edit in the Staging Ground (after it happened multiple times with the same post) so I think this is a topic where Community consensus is useful.

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    Is there any reason to allow this? If they want to change their post, they should ask a new one. Commented Oct 27 at 5:31
  • @HolyBlackCat I assume, while their question is in SG, they can't.
    – gre_gor
    Commented Oct 27 at 5:43
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    How about the "upvote when published" option? It doesn't make sense if the question is rewritten to something completely different. Commented Oct 27 at 5:53
  • @HolyBlackCat I wrote an answer explaining reasons why I would allow this (not in the linked case but that was what got me to post this on MSO since we should have some sort of consensus).
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 8:03
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    @WeijunZhou I have to admit that I didn't think about that option but from what I've seen, questions where this option may be worth considering aren't that often completely rewritten.
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 8:05

4 Answers 4

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It turns out I was the one that rolled this particular post back to the revision that matched its duplication target. It came up in my feed for re-evaluation and I was thoroughly confused how (a) it was previously closed as a duplicate also by me, (b) the duplicate target didn't fit/match and was nothing at all related to the "current" question (I immediately thought, "oh my, how did I screw this target up this badly"), and (c) the comments/feedback were all over the place since trying to address vastly different posts. I looked through the revision history and noticed the OP was on their second iteration of a different question in that post. I was honestly quite surprised to see that it was not rolled-back after the first complete re-write.

I'm of the opinion that the post state is irrelevant and that allowing complete rewrites of SG posts into different questions altogether sends OPs the wrong signal that this is acceptable behavior anywhere, anytime, on the site. It also likely invalidates all the current comments and feedback relevant to the original posting. Not only is SG a tool to help new users write better questions, but it can, and should, be used to help them understand and respect SO's question-answer posting/format.

The change(s) should be rolled back and a comment left to the author not to do this and for them to create an entirely new post for the entirely new question/topic/issue/etc. A canned-message with links to help pages or posts explaining the reason why would be helpful and welcome.

If they no longer seek to advance their current post further towards publication then it should be left alone/abandoned.

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    Unfortunately this particular OP says they have found themselves to be pinched in a question ban and so this is why they were editing their SG post. I think these users should probably be able to ask new SG posts until that also becomes problematic and Mods need to get involved.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 27 at 6:11
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    Oh jeez... I hadn't dug further back in any of the edit history when I marked the post as a duplicate, and then later subsequently rolled it back. Well, I don't believe there's any mechanism to un-mark the current duplicate and roll the post back even further. IMHO that post is a dumpster fire and should be considered a total loss. This is exactly what we want to avoid by letting OPs completely re-write their posts!
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 27 at 6:55
  • I didn't really plan to talk much about that post specifically but in this case, I think it was completely justified with the post being rewritten like that 3 times or something like that (there were different dupes before).
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 7:59
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    "that allowing complete rewrites of SG posts into different questions altogether sends OPs the wrong signal that this is acceptable behavior anywhere, anytime, on the site" and yet that's exactly what we expect them to do to fix their questions. The post became a dumpster fire because you decided to make it one. People are allowed to rewrite their post even if that means invalidating answers, when the post isn't in a position to be answered anyways.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 27 at 14:07
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    @Braiam Are we using different sites? As far as I'm aware it's never been acceptable anywhere on the site to completely deface a post and change topics once users have interacted with it, especially if it invalidates existing answers. All SG posts are one approval away from being answerable, and are certainly fair game to being marked as duplicates even before publishing. I didn't create the chaos in that post, it was already there and I just simply did not look closely enough (that's on me) otherwise I would have rolled back the edits and marked the status as "needs major changes".
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 27 at 17:48
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    You call deface, I call fix. Deface implies that something of value was lost. What value has a question that never was public and that would better be deleted is lost?
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 27 at 20:07
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    @Braiam The value was that a suitable duplicate target was identified and the defacement nullifies all previous work and effort by curators. In what world is allowing that fixing anything?
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 27 at 20:09
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    @DrewReese The duplicate target that you apply to a SG post doesn't help people searching the main site; it only helps the OP. That said, I see the issue with my proposal now - it causes problems for the dupe-closer. Commented Oct 27 at 20:33
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    This answer gives an excellent case study on the dangers of encouraging wholesale re-writes of posts, even in the Staging Ground: it leaves a hot mess for reviewers to deal with, and is likely useful mostly as a tool for circumventing question bans.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 29 at 22:15
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In my opinion—feel free to post a different answer if you disagree—it should be allowed to completely change posts, especially in cases where the original post is off-topic.

If a post mostly stays the same but changes a question from "what is the best practice" (in a case where this is marked as off-topic) to asking about technical/objective differences between two approaches, I think this is always ok to do but I also think there are good reasons to allow editing a Staging Ground question to ask a completely different question.

Why allow changing posts

The main reason for this is that the Staging Ground posts cannot have any answers, so changing what is posted in Staging Ground cannot invalidate any answers. And since a Staging Ground post isn't published anyway, there (typically) isn't anything of much value lost (especially if the question is fundamentally off-topic).

Regarding fundamentally off-topic questions, there is no reason for these questions to stay in their current form. The only way these questions can get improved is rewriting what the question is about which is what they would be doing in that case.

That being said, the Staging Ground is about improving questions to a point where they can go to the main site, get answered and ideally provide useful knowledge for future readers. Since we cannot force askers to improve their current question if they are no longer interested in it, making it a new, potentially good question seems reasonable.

Finally, the Staging Ground generally encourages askers editing their question in however way they can improve it. Being able to not change what the question is about could be confusing to askers.

Does the post state matter

While I think that completely changing what a question is about especially makes sense for off-topic questions (it's often the only way to really improve such a question), the arguments also apply for other cases (e.g. duplicates that aren't published to the main site anyways or posts in "Requires Major Changes" where the author resolved their issue or similar so I think this should generally be allowed, independent of the post state.

Special cases

If the author repeatedly completely rewrites the question to be about a different topic or similar things, it just wastes the time of reviewers (especially in cases when reviewers take the time to look for duplicates). In this case, I think it's fine to use the "Decline Re-Evaluation" option and ask the author to not do that. I think rolling back the edit is an option here but it isn't necessary.

Authors shouldn't completely rewrite their questions in the "Minor Edits" state. If that happens, the new question is published without anyone approving it. However, rolling back such a question on the main site would be hard to do and not worth the effort as it is causing too many other issues with the reviewer/editor completely rewriting an existing published question without the old version visible in the history. Because of that, there isn't much we can do against that behavior. These questions can be handled on the main site as any other question on the main site by closing it if necessary.

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    Is there some rate-limit on staging ground posts? If an edit truly replaces the entire old question with an entire new one, wouldn't that be better as a new staging-ground post so there aren't stale comments that presumably don't apply to the new question? (That's not a showstopper problem, but still a downside to edit instead of delete and post new.) Commented Oct 27 at 5:59
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    Rewriting even an off-topic/duplicate question puts it into a state where it's hard for everyone to see which comments still apply/ what part of the history is still relevant. Because it leads to confusing posts I don't think we should allow it at all, starting over is just way simpler. There is just way too many edge cases to consider already. Can't we just make our life simple for once?
    – cafce25
    Commented Oct 27 at 6:12
  • @PeterCordes What rate limit are you talking about? I don't know any except the normal one for asking questions. I think that in most cases, there aren't that many comments so it isn't that much of an issue. Also, posts often undergo significant changes in the Staging Ground anyway making comments completely obsolete.
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 7:57
  • @dan1st: rate-limit as in question ban, like would a new user who's asked too many bad questions sometimes not be able to just make a new post instead. According to Drew Reese's answer, yes, question bans do apply to staging-ground posts, too, motivating this kind of thing. (But do bad staging-ground questions contribute to being question-banned as much as bad questions on the main site? They can't get downvoted on SG.) Commented Oct 27 at 13:12
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    Yes, creation of posts should be subject to question bans, just like other posts. As far as I know, questions in the Staging Ground shouldn't contribute towards question bans except for possibly spam posts which technically get downvoted but they are mostly just unclosed posts with a score of 0 (if these posts normally contribute towards question bans, I hope they are exempted).
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 13:50
  • Off-topic to on-topic is a step too far to me. For example, "Why doesn't my cat like her new scratching post?" to "Why is my loop variable not captured?". Unless a stronger link with the first paragraph was intended. Commented Oct 27 at 20:00
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    @AndrewMorton Can you elaborate on that? Is there a specific issue you see with off-topic questions being rewritten to ask about something on-topic?
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 20:30
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My vote: only while the question is in off-topic state.

While Staging Ground questions don't admit answers (so there's nothing to invalidate or lose), if a question is in "Major Changes" state especially and reviewers are asking for missing debugging info or a clarification or whatever, trying to change the fundamental question is too disruptive to the review process. It's probably fine if the new question is still visibly about the same underlying problem (from a plausible reading of OP's perspective); but anything else makes the rest of that effort feel wasted.

The response to such rewrites should be: decline request for re-evaluation, roll back the edit, and comment to tell OP not to do that. Ideally there would be a template comment for this with a link to corresponding policy (e.g., this Q&A, but hopefully something more authoritative).

On the other hand, if the question was marked as a duplicate, off topic or caused by a typo, then in a sense that "kills" the current version of the question - it was judged not to be fixable, so there really is nothing to lose from letting OP completely rewrite the question. For our purposes it's as if the original question never existed; forcing OP to go through a different flow (starting with the "Ask Question" button again) is pointless.

(This could change if it later becomes possible to publish duplicates from the Staging Ground.)

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I don't get it. The Staging ground was supposed to be a way to churn questions enough so that they can be published. If someone rewrites their post, into a state that can be published, who cares about the history of the post? When a post comes for reevaluation, it should be reevaluated as it is right now. These askers are trying to use the site, but we keep bludgeoning them with minutiae. Who really cares that it was closed as duplicate? What SG should care is if a post is in a state where it can be published, that's literally what it purpose is:

  • improve the first-time asker experience
  • Address quality issues that exist with first questions by lowering the close/deletion rates and improve their overall quality
  • Encouraging new users to iterate on their questions (rewrite is a form of iteration!) in a more collaborative way should improve their overall experience and increase the likelihood and quality of future contributions to the site.

Staging ground is supposed to be more relaxed, so do not bring the baggage of the main site to it. Rewrites are not only expected, should be encouraged!

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  • I fully agree with this answer (but it seems a bit controversial/not obvious). One issue I can see is that some reviewers might only be interested in certain topics which could be an issue if a question changes from e.g. a Java/IDE question to a React question to something else or it could confusion with reviewers.
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 14:59
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    "Encouraging new users to iterate on their questions (rewrite is a form of iteration!)" - We expect a next iteration to be improvement of the previous one. Complete rewriting is anything but "improvement" (Is new C# code better than a previous Python one?)
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Oct 27 at 15:08
  • @dan1st that's why we have tag filters. Use them!
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 27 at 15:30
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    @Tsyvarev the previous question was visible? No. Why? Because it was deemed not good enough to be visible on the site! Therefore, a complete rewrite is an improvement, since something that shouldn't be visible in the site, was changed into something that could be.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 27 at 15:31
  • @Braiam The issue in this case/why tag filters aren'thabdling that here is (a) the asker may not edit the tags accordingly when editing their questions and (b) a reviewer with possible interest in reviewing the original version may be confused by a notification about a completely new post. But yes, the concerns I'm mentioning in the comments of your answer are pretty weak.
    – dan1st
    Commented Oct 27 at 15:46
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    @Braiam: A question with score +10 is definitely better than a question of a score -10. But it doesn't mean that the first question is improvement of the second one: these are different questions about (possibly) different topics. I don't want to treat the Staging Ground as a helper for "I want to post a question on Stack Overflow; I don't care about the topic of that question". I prefer to treat SG as a helper to "polish a question (on a specific topic) for being suitable for Stack Overflow".
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Oct 27 at 15:56
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    "Rewriting" to iterate and improve the current question is not the same thing as "rewriting" to get around a question ban or to ask an entirely new question. Obviously we want users to iterate on their post if the current problem they are seeking help with is so poorly worded/asked/formatted that the post in entirety needs to be rewritten to more clearly formulate it. This should be totally fine as it doesn't invalidate the current support/feedback already provided them in SG.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 27 at 18:00
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    @Tsyvarev why are you making a strawman. I never referenced score (in fact, I know several questions that have +100 score that are blight on the earth). I put a simple and objective measure of improvement: would the new question be considered apt for public view, yes or not? A close question by definition is not.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 27 at 20:09
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    "If someone rewrites their post, into a state that can be published, who cares about the history of the post?" The problem is that there is an immediately publicly visible such history, which will guide the actions of reviewers: the comment section. It's even threaded - there's a clear expectation that OPs and reviewers will go back and forth on specific issues with the question to fix them. Commented Oct 27 at 20:31
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    Alternative to rewriting a totally off-topic question is asking a new question, as a separate post. It is simple for the asker, and comments for old question will confuse neither asker nor users who are willing to help.
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Oct 27 at 20:34
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    @Braiam: That user is question-banned. They obtain given status because most of their questions were not successful but instead forced curators to waste a time. The status prevents them to waste more time of curators. Allowing such users to rewrite their 1-per-6-months question indefinitely defeats the whole purpose of status being question-banned.
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Oct 28 at 0:06
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    I don't remember seeing a "delete" option on staging-ground posts. How do you suggest reviewers get an SG post deleted so it can't be edited anymore? Commented Oct 28 at 14:30
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    @PeterCordes There isn't any delete option. I think this is a case of "tell us you've not ever SG reviewed without telling us you've not ever SG reviewed."
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 28 at 15:33
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    @Braiam What are you even talking about now? There is no delete option in SG. It's not the reviewers that are going into settled/resolved SG posts and stirring things up just to waste time. OPs are going back and re-writing their posts and requesting a re-evaluation which puts the post back into the queue to be reviewed. You seem to have it exactly backwards here, mate.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Oct 28 at 15:36
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    There is no vote-to-delete option on staging-ground posts. Like Drew said, you're just completely making stuff up about how the staging ground works and engaging in wishful thinking about how you wish things worked. Commented Oct 29 at 12:58

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