284

My reputation score is still low enough that I get excited when I see I have jumped +40 points in one day.

Oddly today this happened, and I found it was because people had upvoted a topic that I had edited in Documentation (I had removed an unnecessary section, which in the best use of wiki technology has already been added back in!).

This seems bizarre that I would get any reputation points on my main Stack Overflow account for a Documentation topic: that I would receive the same amount of reputation points for a upvote on a topic as I do for an upvote on an answer on Stack Overflow and most disturbing of all:

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING

All I did was remove code from the topic. The Stack Overflow equivalent of this would be for me to make a minor edit on one of Jon Skeet's answers and sit back and watch the reputation points flow in.

Please turn this off before it badly skews reputation points for the entire site.

13
  • 62
    you mean before it Skeets reputation points...?
    – null
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:34
  • 17
    The reputation system is broken anyway, has represents absolutely nothing. You can get very high reputation without even being active on SO and with a single answer.
    – Leandros
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:36
  • 74
    No the documentation system is broken @Leandros
    – Toby Allen
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:38
  • 75
    Going to make a tutorial on how to reach Jon Skeet's reputation in 7 days! Pre-order for only $9.98
    – revo
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:40
  • 1
    Exactly... And please see this as well O:)
    – ABcDexter
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:04
  • 32
    It's only a matter of time before people start "rep mining" this, making minor edits everywhere to get lots and lots of easy rep
    – Liam
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:29
  • 5
    I think we better restrict who can contribute to documentation based on their reputation. points are still some kind of incentive Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:33
  • 1
    see here : meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/328703/…
    – Malick
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 12:08
  • 2
    I agree wholeheartedly, if I simply edit a a documentation topic, I should absolutely not gain rep for every upvote to that topic
    – Lamak
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 15:57
  • 50
    Yeah, the reward structure is nonsense. I've gotten more rep from this single Documentation edit than for any but the top 2% of my answers. I don't want this rep. It devalues my answering work in my own mind.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 16:29
  • 1
    I received 1.2k for now, for pretty minor edits that someone else would have done anyway. I want to get to 10K but getting it for nothing means nothing. Wikipedia is not SO and SO is not Wikipedia.
    – Elazar
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 23:19
  • See overview of proposals, how to change current system of reputation gain from Documentation at Remove or Overhaul Reputation in Documentation Commented Jul 30, 2016 at 14:07
  • I'm not going to mark this as [status-complete] just yet, but under the new reputation system, neither of your edits would be considered substantive.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Sep 6, 2016 at 17:34

13 Answers 13

99

I'm not here for the rep (and I would be happy could I turn off the display of the rep for me) but I agree that it distorts the rep system greatly.

The idea behind getting rep for edits on Documentation though is clear. Unlike for the Q&A part your contributions are by design supposed to be mixed with others. We do not have competing answers, we have community wiki like answers creating a single, coherent contributions.

Still the creators of Documentation wanted to adapt the rep scheme from the Q&A part because there it works.

What are the alternatives:

  • No rep for no one on Documentation (this proposal already exists but rep is also seen as incentive)
  • Rep only for the Topic creator (grossly unfair)
  • Reduced rep but for everyone contributing (might be not enough incentive for some)
  • Rep only for substantial edits (need to define what is major/minor)

I would go for one of the latter two.

12
  • 12
    These changes are already being implemented. Given it is currently in Beta, the devs have already adjusted the requirements for "substantial edits" (which, FYI, were always a part of documentation), and they have adjusted the reputation rewards for those edits
    – RGA
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 8:59
  • 5
    @RGA That's good to hear. Are the adjusted requirements for "substantial edits" published somewhere? Would the deletion of a section (which later gets inserted again) as in this question count as substantial edit? Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:02
  • 1
    I saw it somewhere on Meta today... afraid I can't remember where. It seems that they only count Character Changes (divided into sections of zero rep-per-upvote for less than 200, 5 rep-per-upvote for 200-500, and 10 rep-per-upvote for 500+). I'm not sure if that includes character deletion (though I expected it would). Perhaps when you find the post, comment that they should add some verification that something is added as well as deleted?
    – RGA
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:09
  • @RGA Thanks. I will. Activity on Meta is quite high today. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:16
  • 5
    It's been painfully high since the documentation launch :P
    – RGA
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:18
  • Earlier they were awarding 10 rep points per upvote. It has now been reduced to 5.
    – CinCout
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:35
  • 60
    I would say no rep for anyone. Documentation should be purely altruistic by people with good rep in the particular field.
    – Galik
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:45
  • 5
    Let the revisers classify a contribution as a "Substancial edits", or "minor edits" and define the points accordingly.
    – Robert
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 9:45
  • 1
    Get the Rep based on the overall contribution towards the post. If you added some useful 100 characters besides the existing 900, a mod can approve you to get a constant % off the score of that post. Those were my 200 chars Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:03
  • @RGA makes good sense to me. I did wonder why I my rep was lower this morning despite seeing a positive amount of new rep gained overnight and no negative rep at all.
    – John C
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:11
  • 14
    "might be not enough incentive for some" sounds like a winner to me. We need fewer, better editors.
    – Frank
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 15:12
  • 4
    @Frank Absolute agreement. One clever edit of a smart editor probably outweighs ten mediocre edits of not so clever editors. It's all about creating a framework where experts feel at home and others feel also okay with. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 15:17
94

Another solution: separate Documentation rep from SO rep (and display both everywhere if you'd like). That will take care of the rep disproportion problem.

11
  • 11
    This is a brilliant answer :)
    – ABcDexter
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 11:13
  • 7
    Whether it could be possible or not, I really don't like this. Documentation is along side Q&A part. It means they are not distinct from each other. I don't prefer a separate reputation system, it is not interesting at all. Current integration is very tasty but we should wait for some improvements.
    – revo
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 11:29
  • 3
    I don't like this suggestion. I think it would just make things more confusing, and most importantly, it wouldn't solve the problem that on documentation people would be able to get too much rep, too easily. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 11:43
  • 8
    This isn't possible. (source)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 12:05
  • 4
    @FabioTurati: they may be able to get too much rep too easily, but at least NOT on StackOverflow where it really counts. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 12:27
  • 1
    I created a similar proposal already.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Jul 23, 2016 at 15:37
  • 1
    @Cerbrus: your link doesn't support the claim it isn't possible. They said (1) it would take work, and (2) they don't want to do it because they want everything to be unified. That's honest, but not a particularly strong case.
    – DSM
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 19:46
  • 3
    Practically impossible, then. "It would take work" is a gross understatement, @DSM.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 19:48
  • 1
    @Cerbrus: I can't speak to what corners they've written themselves into on either the backend or the frontend side -- maybe you're privy to more of their codebase. But since they manage to keep our SO rep separate from our Programmers rep without any difficulties, they could clearly have done so if they chose.
    – DSM
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 19:55
  • @DSM: Those (SO / programmers) are separate sites. Documentation is a part of SO, as explained in my link.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:23
  • 3
    @Cerbrus: but that was a design choice on their part. When there are multiple ways of doing something, and they choose one which makes something difficult instead of other ways in which it would be easier, you can't then turn around and blame technical difficulties.
    – DSM
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:30
55

Yes, the reputation system is thoroughly broken. Yesterday I cranked up more than 300 reputation points mostly by pure dumb luck. My answers were obvious ones on not-so-good questions. Some days I've written really solid answers, maybe even a hundred 50 lines long, only to get +10 the whole day. Documentation reputation points will make it FOOBAR.

There are already documentation examples with more than 250 upvotes. That's 2500 reputation points not for just one user but for many, many users. Reputation inflation will go through the roof even if the handout is reduced to +5 as discussed above.

2
  • There's still the 200 rep/day cap.
    – Bart
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 10:31
  • 3
    200 for upvotes. Accepted answers don't count in that limit
    – e4c5
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 12:59
33

I believe there should be absolutely no rep for anything related to documentation; nor should there be badges for it. The reason is simple--just go look through the documentation for your favorite language and look at the atrocious examples, plainly wrong information, and other horrific content, which will lead to a new generation of programmers with poor programming practices. If there is no rep, only those who really care will work on the documentation, and those in it just for the rep and badges will stay away.

5
  • 8
    Wikipedia has no rep. QED.
    – J...
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 10:14
  • 3
    @J And Wikipedia has almost zero useful information for programmers.
    – Menasheh
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 10:47
  • 9
    en.cppreference.com/w has no rep, and it's a tremendously valuable resource for programmers. Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 14:11
  • 4
    @Menasheh Having useful information for programmers is not Wikipedia's goal. Building a database of high-quality encyclopedic information is its goal - one which it has been highly successful in achieving.
    – J...
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 0:52
  • @J but there are so many more people in the world than there are programmers.
    – Menasheh
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 2:09
30

Since documentation is supposed to be a shared effort, it would be appropriate to share points gained from upvotes - meaning a certain percentage of 10 points per upvote like on the QA site. This is almost impossible to resolve, because the mechanism to decide shares would have to be very smart and still couldn't get it "right".

So Stack Overflow ditched the problem by just dealing out 5 points to every involved user - which is completely out of proportion. Just stop it. And revert the damage done so far. It makes a mockery of the reputation system.

You want to push your new product? OK. But not by mocking achievements of your trusted users.

5
  • It's 5 per upvote, not 10.
    – nicael
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 14:56
  • Thanks. (I did mean to share 10 points, which would be appropriate.) My point remains the same. Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 14:58
  • 4
    The reputation system? It makes a mockery of the whole site. And threatens its core offering by trying to bolt on an incompatible system and put its far-reaching changes live while it's still in beta status. Embarrassing. Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 21:49
  • 2
    ...which just makes your core message even more applicable, so for emphasis: "Just stop it. And revert the damage done so far. It makes a mockery of the reputation system." and, by extension, the whole site. I honestly cannot believe that staff are on record as saying 'it's too difficult :(' to figure out a separate rep scheme, or just suck it up and do without rep for Docs until they do - so their lazy-ass 'solution' is to afflict the (former?) main offering of the site with this transplanted-on mess, which will quickly cripple it and any sense of legitimacy if not reversed out ASAP. Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 22:33
  • 2
    What I miss most in documentation at the moment is a CW-like "contribution percentage" meter (which could potentially be used for "dealing" upvote points). Honestly, it pisses me off that I spend the time writing a long and detailed example, only to have some user who I never even saw in that tag, swoop in to add a sentence they consider a clarification, and from this point onward they are "equal contributers". Where's my incentive to write new content instead of making infinitesimal changes to somebody else's posts?? :(
    – Dev-iL
    Commented Jul 27, 2016 at 20:19
18

I wrote a lengthy topic and 4 examples, which got accepted. +2 rep. I wrote 2 more lengthy examples, +2 rep. I noticed a typo in the content from the previous ones, which I fixed - +2 rep. It seems that the easiest way to get reputation from edits is to do lots of small edits and have them approved from the queue, which is quite counter-productive.

4
  • 1
    How is that counterproductive?
    – Menasheh
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 10:46
  • 7
    instead of editing large articles to be more clear and useful, you exploit the rep system over small trivial changes
    – svarog
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 14:03
  • 3
    Small trivial changes also improve the quality of the posts, and they shouldn't get accepted if they don't.
    – Menasheh
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 2:05
  • The point remains that typing an entire article with useful examples is worth more and should thus be valued / rewarded higher than fixing a typo. Why not just take the diff size in bytes as the size of the contribution? I imagine that (although inherently unfair as not all words / texts are equal) it would actually be much harder to game. There's always another typo to fix but to get significant points you would need significant amounts of text to change which takes real effort (or starts to resemble vandalism otherwise) Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 19:39
16

It's exceedingly painful I believe for all users who spend time as stated before writing long and concise answers to complex questions to receive more points for simple edits than for their actual hard work.

But as the site also caters to and offers job searching capabilities and reputation may (not always) influence certain companies to contact users I believe it damages stack overflow even more due to the reputation inflation.

I think a fair system would share points as mentioned before or divide the points into categories so it's clear how they were earned and maybe some kind of cap to prevent a trending documentation topic boosting too much reputation in a short time period As obviously some topics have more viewers than others so the same work in one category will not inflate reputation nearly as much as hours of work in another.

1
  • 7
    It's a valid point. So far, rep was mostly unicorn points, but as soon as a real world entity gives a damn about it, it becames a real concern for all. Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 9:12
12

This whole site is based on gamification, and rep is a clear way to reward users. I think we should continue giving rep for positive contributions. But I agree that the current system gives, simply put, too much rep.

My idea: let's cap the points you can gain from the same example. For every example you will get +10 (for creation) and +5 (for edit), only once per example, and only after somebody upvotes the example after your change.

So if you create an example you get +10 as soon as somebody upvotes, but then it doesn't matter how many other users upvote it, you won't ever get any more rep from it. Not even if you later edit it.

If the example is created by others, you edit it, and you will get +5 at the first upvote after your change. Then, no more rep from it, not even if you edit it again.

This would effectively limit the amount of rep you can get without much effort, preventing people from gaming the system. Of course the numbers can be adjusted (like: +5 for creation, +2 for edit), or we could say that the points for edits are given when the edit is approved, irregardless of whether someone upvotes that example after that. We can work on it.

But the key idea is to cap the rep you can gain from the same example, so that making a dozen minor edits doesn't work.

9

My idea is that, if reputation points should be given at all for Documentation editors (and I'm personally in favor of this), they should be proportional to the actual benefit that the edit provides to the Documentation at the time of the upvote (so the benefit provided to the upvoter from the Documentation).

I agree with @TobyAllen that it doesn't make sense to get reputation points (and many of them) for an edit that might be completely reversed afterward.

At the contrary, if a meaningful edit has been added that will remain for a long time in the Documentation to enrich it, this should be rewarded.

I would suggest that if in a certain time a specific piece of Documentation is upvoted, that only the creator of it and the editors who contributed to what is currently visible in the doc should receive reputation points.

Just to make it more practical:

Time 0 - User1 creates a new example for a certain topic. Here is the content of the example:

xxxxx
zzzzz

Time 10 - User2 edits the example, so now it looks like this:

wwwww
xxxxx
zzzzz

Time 20 - User3 edits now the example, removing the edit from User2, so now it looks like this:

xxxxx
yyyyy
zzzzz

So if the example receives an upvote at Time 6, only User1 would receive reputation points.

If the example receives an upvote at Time 14, both User1 and User2 would receive reputation points (best if proportionally to the content provided and currently visible).

BUT, if the example receives an upvote at Time 21, only User1 and User3 will receive reputation points, since the content added by User2 is no longer visible and provides no longer benefit to the users looking at the example.

In order to achieve this, an algorithm somewhat as the following one would do the work:

upvote_reputation = ((creator)?creator_extra_points:0) + (upvote_points * percentage_of_visible_doc_provided)

So, going back to the examples, this would be:

Time 6

user1_rep_points += creator_extra_points + upvote_points

Time 14

user1_rep_points += creator_extra_points + round(upvote_points*0.67)
user2_rep_points += round(upvote_points*0.33)

Time 21

user1_rep_points += creator_extra_points + round(upvote_points*0.67)
user2_rep_points += round(upvote_points*0) = 0
user3_rep_points += round(upvote_points*0.33)

This algorithm could definitely be improved, but could be of inspiration for a better way of giving reputation points for Documentation contributors.

13
  • 1
    I think the problem is defining "how many characters of a (useful?) edit of User2 are still present in the Example"... no matter at which point in time. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:06
  • @RokoC.Buljan Right. The thing is that if User2's edit was not useful, it will soon be removed, and User2 will no longer receive reputation points out of his edit. If the edit is somewhat useful, even if removed, might be brought back by some other user, giving back to User2 the right to receive reputation points out of his/her contribution. This is a bit tricky, since User2 might try to bring back his deleted edit himself, which should be somehow limited.
    – clami219
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:09
  • 6
    The other issue is that what if the user2 edit largely inspired the work of user3. Despite not being present in the latest version, it's arguable that they still contributed to the thought processes that led to the latest version. Just inspecting the characters present in any given revision is not a solid way to base things on, but it's also the only tangible thing we have to go by. This is a very non-trivial problem to solve. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:10
  • @JamesThorpe This is actually true! Probably a human proofreader would be needed to establish who has actually contributed to the final content of the doc.
    – clami219
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:11
  • Don't think that an edit or expansion means "adding lines". And edit could be just a character, a simple missing math operation... anything. That single character could range from huge to no importance. Rep-Versioning by tracking such stuff is arguably impossible. Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:13
  • I think this may already be implemented. If you make, say 300 characters of change to a post, and then someone deletes 200 of those characters, your subsequent "contribution" would be only 100 characters, below the rep gain threshold. I don't actually know if this is factored into the calculations, but I suspect that it would be (trusting the inteligence of the devs)
    – RGA
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:14
  • @RokoC.Buljan Well, the diff between the edits could actually tell who added each character in a piece of doc. I definitely agree on the fact that it's a tricky process and would probably work best under human review.
    – clami219
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:16
  • What about when edit is a formatting edit? It fixes typos, formats code. Then it's substantial but surely it shouldn't provide reputation.
    – Sulthan
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:22
  • @Sulthan I agree on that. In fact, if it's on a big piece of doc, it's percentage on the total would be so small that the rounding operation would bring the reputation change down to zero.
    – clami219
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 10:42
  • 3
    Obviously it's impossible to make a system like this perfect, but I still think it's better than the current system of weighting all "substantial" edits the same. Note that the community wiki feature on SO apparently already has some way of estimating what percentage of a post was written by a certain person: imgur.com/a/gX1ub
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 15:59
  • Version control systems do "blame": who changed this line last? That can be done here. Sure, it's game-able, but everything is, and it's a damn sight better than unlimited rewards in perpetuity for changing a couple of sentences.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 16:23
  • 1
    Any automated system to deduce what can be considered a substantial edit or that tries to divide the parts of who made what on an article is highly abusable, regardless of how you design it.
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 23, 2016 at 10:20
  • I think this is the best solution. It's objective. It makes a reasonable attempt at weighing contributions (be it by size only). I'm not sure about the 'visible in current version'. Yes it might be better IF you could do it right. But it seems to me just excluding denied edits would be enough. If it was approved it was a positive contribution at the time. And as history builds up it's value will automatically diminish. Combine this answer with the divide a fixed score per upvote by ratio answer and you've got a winner I think Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 20:08
8

Back when Documentation was first announced, Kevin wrote:

We intend for participation in the Documentation parts of Stack Overflow to be about as rewarding, in terms of reputation, as asking and answering is in the Q&A parts.

Before last Thursday, we didn't have a good way to test the reputation system we'd designed against that criteria. For one thing, the reputation for citations simply could not exist. We also can't really evaluate how things play out until we start getting normal levels of activity on Documentation; you might have noticed it's a gold rush right now. Even so, we made our very first change to the reputation system on day one. There are a lot of potential levers to pull (such as the definition of significant contributions), so you can expect reputation from Documentation to fluctuate.

But I think there's a bigger concern that people might be earning reputation unfairly by editing other people's work as opposed to being the author/owner of a post. We are used to certain types of programmers getting Stack Overflow reputation and mixing in Documentation threatens to disrupt our self-understanding.

enter image description here

I think it's about time we acknowledged that Stack Overflow has always been a little bit unfair. For instance, the very best answerer in Fortran is at a distint disadvantage to people who answer in C, which has two orders of magnitude more questions. But beyond that, the fastest gun problem is only a problem because some people can't answer as quickly as others for reasons entirely beyond their control. And there are other people who are just better at demonstrating by example than at debugging with insufficient information.

Documentation addresses a sliver of that problem by offering a new way to earn reputation: collaborative editing. Instead of forcing everyone to climb trees, we now offer people a chance to, I don't know, run in a herd. Some people will be better at that than asking or answering questions and so we'll get reputation that's slightly more representative of the elements of programming skill.

The other thing to remember is that there are a lot of moving parts in the beginning. We saw a lot of questions asked in 2008-9 that just would not be asked now. I earned reputation for What exactly is programming?, which is not exactly a useful Stack Overflow question. There are going to be Documentation contributions that shock your sensibilities. It's just the cost of allowing people to work together to make something new. The lesson of the Stack Overflow public beta was that great things can happen if you trust the community. And so that's part of our plan with Documentation: we're doing our best to create the foundation for you, the Stack Overflow community, to build something truly useful.

19
  • Have there been discussions on limiting how much rep can be earned by editing documentation versus creating documentation? I'm thinking of the 1000 rep limit users can earn via suggested edits. It's still early, but I am seeing a lot of nit picky edits on some of the highest voted documentation topics. If that continues so that users can hit "significant contribution" and it is just changing grammar, I'd like to know if it would eventually end.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 16:44
  • @Andy: There's no Documentation is a collaborative effort; there's no distinction between the person who wrote the first edit and the person who created the Nth edit. Other than that, I can only reiterate that we still have many options when it comes to adjusting the Documentation reputation system.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 16:53
  • 15
    This is all well and good; I like the idea of expanding how people can (and want to) contribute. But right now if I climb a tree, I get a banana. If anyone in my herd finds a banana, we all get one banana each. That's not even remotely balanced.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 18:48
  • @JoshCaswell: That's a fine point. (And thank you for extending the analogy.) I get that people are freaking out about reputation right now. It's the biggest thing to actually change since launch and the first time many SO regulars had been confronted with it. We intend to make reputation balanced (see the quote from Kevin again). But the whole point of this beta is to gather the information we need to make reasonable adjustments.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 19:45
  • 2
    It's just hard to see how the rep-dispensing genie can be put back into the bottle once the cork has been pulled.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 19:58
  • @JoshCaswell: It's easy enough to recalculate reputation retroactively. (Say that ten times fast.) Of course, that will produce tons of whining on meta, which is annoying but not unmanageable. Certainly better to tamp down irrational exuberance than figure out how to drum up support for a feature nobody cares about.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 20:05
  • "Certainly better to tamp down irrational exuberance than figure out how to drum up support for a feature nobody cares about" Fair enough. It's exactly the whining -- really, tantrums -- that I'm worried about. Because it wasn't pretty last time. (I know that wasn't entirely about rep, but similar issues seem likely to apply here too.) But if you say it's "not unmanageable", that's reassuring; thanks.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 25, 2016 at 20:11
  • 7
    "...we're doing our best to create the foundation for you, the Stack Overflow community, to build something truly useful." It seems that the Stack Overflow community doesn't like the rep system in connection with Documentation much. For example separation of the rep between the Q&A and the Documentation part seems to be requested quite univocally. So if SO only creates the foundation, why not displaying the rep separated in categories right away? Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 9:16
  • 9
    We were appropriately reminded by one of the answers that another SO undertaking, Careers, is aiming to move rep from purely self-gratification territory to something that can impact one's chances in getting employment/consulting offers. Taking this into consideration, devaluing reputation is not a good idea.
    – PM 77-1
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 17:59
  • 1
    "the fastest gun problem is only a problem because some people can't answer as quickly as others for reasons entirely beyond their control" - huh? No, it's a problem because writing a detailed answer that thoroughly explains the problem inevitably takes longer than writing "Try this: <foo>", and so long answers get a rep penalty and are less likely to be accepted and pinned to the top of the page. I've never read any discussion of the problem that suggested the ability of answerers to provide a quick and crap answer was something that varied, or that such variance was the unfair thing.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 31, 2016 at 9:01
  • That does not really make any sense. We intend for participation in the Documentation parts of Stack Overflow to be about as rewarding, in terms of reputation, as asking and answering is in the Q&A parts.. Why should it be as rewarding if it is not the same associated effort? Why don't you then reward reviewing posts too? Don't you see that Q&A has nothing to do with Examples (because documentation is a wrong name)? Reward people the way that you want, but keep it in a separate category. Stack Overflow has always been a little bit unfair. Why make it more so? Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 22:05
  • If people are good at climbing tree, then give them a score at tree climbing. If they are good at herd running, give them a herd running gold medal. Some people will be better at that than asking or answering questions and so we'll get reputation that's slightly more representative of the elements of programming skill. -> NO. The opposite. Collaborative editing is not an element of programming skill. Authoring example might be, maybe (supposing the example actually comes from you) but editing somebody else's example is not. Same as reviewing posts is not an element of programming skill. Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 22:13
  • So, TRUST THE COMMUNITY. Make SO Example rep a separate category Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 22:14
  • 2
    @user3743222: You are assuming that Examples are fundamentally less useful than answers. That . . . is true at the moment. If Documentation never catches up to the usefulness of Q&A, we'll need to kill it off. But we are still in the first few months of beta. I think if you looked at the first few months of WIkipedia, you'd not think it very valuable either. Like Wikipedia we think SO Docs will make a huge positive difference in the world. If we're wrong, well, we'll have to separate the reputation earned from Examples by taking it away.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Aug 18, 2016 at 22:23
  • 1
    No, I do not think that examples are less useful. Cookbooks are VERY useful. But they are not Q&A. The problems here are 1. this is somehow confused with actual DOCUMENTATION, That's a FONDAMENTAL DESIGN problem, 2. Whatever was the intended meaning of SO reputation, it evolved to be a tool, however imperfect, to discriminate skills, and that together with tag categorization worked beautifully and adds value to the careers part of the site. The current system dilutes that, 3. Individual reward does not go well with collaborative editing. Wikipedia rewards nobody, has no VC, yet did great. Commented Aug 19, 2016 at 0:21
5

One simple (feature-request) solution:

  1. Add a checkbox to the editor interface with label "I do not want reputation for this edit". If the editor checks this box he will never receive reputation for this edit.
  2. During the review process, reviewers can see if the author has chosen this option or not. In doing so, reviewers (so the community) will be able to estimate if the edit is significant enough or not to get reputation.
  3. Maybe add a Documentation Altruist badge ?

PS : I think it can also increase the number of correct edit because, sometimes you don't want that people think you are mining reputation , because you don't, and then you don't correct minor errors for this reason.

3
  • 2
    Maybe you should post it as a feature request?
    – TerraPass
    Commented Jul 29, 2016 at 9:21
  • @TerraPass Done: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/330067/3205529
    – Malick
    Commented Jul 29, 2016 at 10:09
  • Great and original idea! People can choose to be altruistic. And a nice badge to round it of. +1! Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 20:19
1

I think this is a kind of Beta effect: everybody sees everything new now, all want to find the first hello world tutorial of their fav tech and if you happened to participate on those few most popular tags, the reputation is what you get.

Think of this question (note the id number):

Calculate age in C#

It has more than thousand votes just for being the nineth question on the site, not about any other major advantage in question formation.

Life is.

3
  • 3
    I agree this effect is definitely inflating the numbers somewhat, but this is still a problem. Imagine if you could get 100% of the rep from new votes on that question you linked just by making a modest edit to it.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 16:02
  • 3
    Actually I am also on side of lesser points per vote. I came up with this natural phenomenom and just wanted to point out this, too.
    – mico
    Commented Jul 22, 2016 at 16:05
  • 1
    I have to grudgingly upvote this answer. While I'd really like to see something done now, voting and editing on Documentation should settle down in a few weeks. And then edits on (currently) popular Docs pages will start slowing down how much reputation they award.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Jul 23, 2016 at 15:39
-12

The upvotes/downvotes should apply to individual edits, not to the Documentation slot as a whole.

That way, readers could reward significant contributions with a +1, ignore trivial/uninteresting changes, and downvote edits or initial text that were accepted but with which they disagree.

This would also solve the Self upvoting documentation posts (examples) problem, because you could upvote others improving your example, but not your own contribution/edits, just like in Q/As you can upvote other people's work, but not your own.

The score of the documentation slot would be the sum of all upvotes/downvotes of all edits for this slot.

This would be ideal from the point of view of fairness. From an UI/usability point of view, there's a difficulty in that we couldn't just click on the arrows around the score, it should happen through a different page showing the history of edits.

On the other hand, if we want to keep the ability to upvote/downvote a doc slot independantly of the authors (for example if we think that users won't vote if it's not a one-click thing), then these votes should not affect any reputation point of anyone involved, because it's impossible/hopeless to do it fairly.

7
  • 3
    So you expect people to search through a topic's version history just to decide who's edits deserve rep? Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:00
  • I expect that it would be presented/sorted in such a way that you have to "look", not "search". Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:29
  • 3
    This would be fair, certainly, but it sounds unworkably complicated for the voters.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:29
  • @DanielVérité: "I expect that it would be presented/sorted in such a way that you have to "look", not "search"." How? That would require each example to show its entire edit history, rather than just the current state of the example. Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 20:39
  • Quite similarly to what Q/As have: stackoverflow.com/posts/id-of-answer/revisions Commented Jul 24, 2016 at 21:16
  • 4
    What horrible UX that would be. Nobody wants to spend 5-10 minutes calculating and diff tooling their way through an upvote
    – charlietfl
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 2:38
  • Use your imagination people! There are definitely ways to achieve this. I don't really get the minus 13 I think it's an interesting idea. Commented Oct 12, 2016 at 20:22

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .