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An OSS maintainer sometimes posts an answer to a question of their OSS. And they sometimes prefer GitHub to Stack Overflow.

In this situation, is it OK to suggest, in the answer, to create GitHub issues or discussions for new problems?

For example, I found this answer https://stackoverflow.com/a/77161052/5989200. This is posted by the author of an OSS and suggests to "create an issue on GitHub if you face other similar issues", but the sentence was deleted by one of moderators.

In this particular example, we encountered some moderation issues:

  • Deletion of a sentence without any explanation, by a moderator.
  • Rollback of the deletion by the author of the answer without discussion, causing post lock by the moderator due to "content dispute".

I personally think the fact that the OSS prefers GitHub to Stack Overflow is useful to users of the OSS.

So my question is: Is it forbidden to suggest to create a post on GitHub for further problems of an OSS, especially by maintainers of the OSS? If not, how should we express maintainers' preferences on Stack Overflow?

Disclaimer: I've personally talked with the author of https://stackoverflow.com/a/77161052/5989200, and searched for a reason of the deletion, but couldn't find any related Meta posts.

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    But I do know that asking to discuss issues brought about on this site, on another off-SO site goes against what I think is the main reason for this site: to create a high quality question and answer repository, one that helps future visitors with similar problems, one where all the pertinent information about the problem and answers are to be found on the site. This isn't a personal help site per se, although help is often obtained, nor is it a discussion site or forum. Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 1:30
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    It should be ok, and I assume it is. Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 1:35
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    The post lock is a bit of a power abuse here I think, at least without any context given by the mod
    – Tofandel
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 15:54
  • TBH, I think it was done because it was considered fluff. Hard to argue, since it's fluff, basically. OTOH, that shouldn't be a reason for a dispute between a mod and a user in such case. We're humans (or are we?), and if a mod thinks that edit-warring over greetings/salutation with an author of a lib that the question was asked about and gladly fixed (providing that as an update info here) is something worth his time, then it's IMVHO a much bigger problem than the fluff itself. I leave defining the exact problem's name and scope to the inquisitive reader.
    – user213769
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 18:19

3 Answers 3

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Personal take, and not a hill I'm willing to die on: I don't think suggesting raising issue tickets is a bad thing.

(buckle your seatbelts because I take a long tangent on how and when I think bug questions can be "good for" SO, and how I deal with them)

From what I have seen on SO, there are plenty of fish in the sea who don't know they can raise issue tickets, and I think those people will continue being newly minted (granted, my current main tags are relatively high-use software, and the rate of minting is proportional to popularity, so take what I say with a grain of salt). Educating them about raising issue tickets is a useful thing, because:

On average, a maintainer of a project is much more likely to see a raised bug on the dedicated issue tracker for their project than on Stack Overflow. Maintainers and prolific contributors to the project are typically well equipped (and I will wager better equipped on average than the average SME in that tag on SO- no offense) to work out causes and solutions to bugs. Because of that, usually, if you want to get the bug fixed, it's a wise thing to do raise the bug in the dedicated issue tracker for the project. *takes off captain-obvious hat and does a curtsey.

I am not saying that I think bugs should never be raised on Stack Overflow- far from it (though when I was new to SO, it boggled my mind why people would use SO almost like an issue tracker). I have answered many a question about high-visibility bugs in developer tooling, which many others have found useful. The Stack Exchange Q&A model can be very valuable for presenting info that can be equivalently gleaned from reading issue tickets: the value of writing concise questions that give exactly enough info to pin down the specific problem (which helps with searchability), and the value of summarizing the cause of the issue, known workarounds, and longer-term solutions in answer posts. This is- to my understanding- part of the goal of the Stack Overflow platform- so that you can get straight from problem to solution without having to scroll through and skim / read all the back-and-forth info-gathering, problem isolating, and solution-implementing discussion that happens in issue tickets. I'm also not worried that teaching people that they can raise issue tickets will lead to fewer such useful questions being posted to SO. As I said, I think people who don't know they can raise issue tickets will keep being newly minted.

That's another thing: The design and intent of issue tracker platforms is... well- designed for the kind of discussion that often happens in the dealings with software bugs. SO... mmmm, not so much. The golden path for me as an answerer is something like this: see question about bug, bug has enough detail for me to search up and find an existing issue ticket, read through it, and then summarize all the important and actionable information in an answer to the SO question.


Related to suggesting issue tickets- but not about raising them for other problems, and instead for the problem in a question post:

I often suggest people to raise issue tickets in comments when I'm convinced that the behaviour they're observing is a bug, and I tried to search for an existing issue ticket and couldn't find one. But when I do this, I don't suggest that the asker delete their question (as I have seen others do). Instead, I suggest that they comment with a link to their issue ticket. Then I subscribe to the issue ticket, let it "do its thing", and then when it's nice and golden brown, I write up an answer post (cause, workarounds, "proper" solutions, etc.) and edit the question post to constrain it to the identified cause to help future searchers find it, and also know if it's likely not the problem they're facing. Ex. Adding a known version range that the bug affects to the title.

If I find my self being confident based on concrete evidence that something is a bug, and believing that explaining that evidence and where it can be found to be of value to the problem in the question post, or I don't have the ability to raise the issue ticket properly myself, but would need to give non-trivial instructions and explanation as to how to raise the issue ticket, then sometimes I post that as an answer. And then as the issue ticket progresses, keep the Q&A up to date (I subscribe to notifications). Helping people deeper understand a bug and its history can help them raise a better (more-well-informed) issue ticket.

I only comment suggesting that askers raise issue tickets when there's enough info for me to get a good idea of where the issue ticket should be filed (usually involves posting some comments giving instructions on how to further isolate the source of the problem) (filing issue tickets in the wrong place is kind of an annoyance / waste of time to everyone involved). If I can reproduce the issue myself, I sometimes just raise the issue ticket myself. If I can't reproduce the issue, but there's still some well-known troubleshooting info that I know maintainers typically ask for when faced with such bug tickets (and that I don't yet see in the question post), then I comment asking for that info. That's useful for two possible reasons: either it turns new info that I can use to find an existing issue ticket, or it saves maintainers time in triage. Yeah, yeah, I know I said that SO isn't good for issue ticket things. I push my lines a little.

The last consideration I can think of right now in terms of the "goodness" of bug-related questions on SO is how likely a Q&A pair about the bug is to have long-term value, which is mostly related to the likelihood that someone will encounter that bug again in the future. I once did some investigation for a why-am-I-getting-weird-behaviour™ question and found out that it was a bug in a beta-release channel of that software- a channel where bugs get patched and released relatively quickly in, and one where the point is for users to actively update. The bug had not yet made it into the stable release channel. I'll wager it to be very unlikely for anyone else to hit that bug again in the future, because it's very unlikely that anyone will use the affected "beta" release again in the future. I don't think I'm a good person to speak about what to do with that Q&A pair since I have a conflict of interest in it. What ended up happening is that I backlinked to the Q&A pair in the issue ticket (I usually do that unless the issue tracker has guidance that discourages such comments), and a maintainer (who has made considerable contributions to SO) voted for it to be closed (it didn't end up closing due to insufficient close-votes).

... I think I rambled a bit there. Sorry. Brain dump.

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    I agree with the answer with one condition that questions about bugs should actually be seeking workarounds (or not even know that their problem is due to a bug) and not be a straight up bug report. I've seen a question where OP had a previous question which had received an answer describing a workaround and yet they created a question to "report a bug"... Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 7:08
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat I think "why am I getting X unexpected behaviour" questions are just fine (where the asker is not sure/aware that it is a bug). Actually, I enjoy answering "why" questions the most.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 7:14
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    Yup, agreed on those since they read as a debugging question. What I meant there were questions that literally read as a bug report. Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 7:22
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat I'm still not sure I agree. depends on the quality of said "bug report". if it measures up to the guidelines for asking questions on SO- Ex. [mre]s, I don't see the problem. I even think people would write better bug reports on actual issue tracker platforms if they knew how to write good SO questions.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 9:39
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    I think the first step should always be to follow the guidelines of the project, most of the time there is dedicated discussion board or issue board, which is a better place to find help than SO, SO should be used after if warranted, so if for example after discussion and more research it turns out not to be a bug but a problem with your code and the discussion cannot fully resolve the issue
    – Tofandel
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 15:57
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat: The other way in which bug-report questions can be on topic is stuff like "Is this a C++ compiler bug, or am I doing something wrong?". For people with only an intermediate level of expertise with a language, especially a language as surprising as C++ often is, Stack Overflow is the correct first stop, not a compiler bug report, if they can't find duplicates and consulting cppreference or the standard itself doesn't clear it up. The phrasing doesn't have to be explicitly wondering about a compiler bug either, it can stuff like "why does GCC do X and Clang do Y?" Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 21:54
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    Thank you for your kind words, @starball. I appreciate your opinion. The most problematic part of the bug is that it happens on specific environments, i.e., Azure notebook and Databricks notebook. As a limited sole OSS maintainer, I can't spend money to fix the bug for those paid environments. Instead, I'd wanted to ask for their collaboration. This is good learning for me that SO's mod has strong power and I should expect this type of conversation to be required.
    – chezou
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:30
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    Supplement: I added "I'm happy to help you!" because I didn't understand the reason for deletion. As an ESL speaker, I assumed due to my impoliteness.
    – chezou
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 0:09
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    @chezou thank you for clarifying, and I apologize for having treated you so summarily. My suggestion is to use comments for anything that is related to the question but does not directly answer it.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 9:16
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It's not forbidden, in the sense it's not a Code of Conduct violation and it's unlikely someone would get in trouble for adding "Please create an issue on GitHub" to their post.

However, it's fluff. It can, and should be, edited out.

With that said, I handled this one too summarily. After the author's first rollback I didn't want to engage in an edit war and locked the post, but that was too much of a power move, when a simple comment would've been enough. I will unlock the post shortly.

Now, about your general question:

Is it forbidden to suggest to create a post on GitHub for further problems of an OSS, especially by maintainers of the OSS?

I don't know if there is unanimous consensus in the mod team so I won't speak for all of the mods. I'll just state what my personal opinion is.

My opinion is that fluff is fluff, and we can't treat OSS maintainers differently than any other user — except when we don't require them to disclose affiliation when they answer questions about their project.

So if the question is "I've got some error in Tabula-Py" and the answer is "It's a bug, please upgrade to vX.Y.Z to solve it", adding also "Please create an issue on GitHub if you face other similar issues. I'm happy to help you!" is unnecessary and functionally the same as adding just "I'm happy to help you!", which is exactly the kind of fluff that we encourage everyone to remove from posts.

If the remark is sufficiently related to the question — beside pleasantries like "happy to help" — it may fit in a comment. The comment doesn't clutter answers and can be eventually deleted as "No Longer Needed" after it has served its purpose of educating the OP about how to contribute to OSS.

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    Would you have a different opinion in a case where the bug isn't already fixed upstream, and the answer is confirming that it is indeed a bug (not something the OP's doing wrong) and encouraging them to report it upstream (because the answer-writer hasn't done that themselves)? That's not at all just "I'm happy to help you", it's action required for this issue. I often say this about in answers or comments on questions that turn out to be missed-optimization bugs in GCC or Clang, where the hypothetical optimization would indeed be legal but compilers don't do it. Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 21:59
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    (I know I could create GCC and LLVM bug reports myself based on such SO questions, and sometimes do, but it takes significant time to polish up a MCVE, and there's the teach-a-man-to-fish aspect. Some SO users do actually post bug reports after I encourage them to do so, although the quality is often not great, more than half the time just dumping their over-complicated code from their SO question even though people have commented with smaller test cases that narrow it down more. And not explaining the issue as clearly as SO commenters did, at worst just repeating their SO question :/) Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 22:04
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    I do not think it should be considered fluff. I'd compare it to "If you face a similar issue, compile with warnings. They usually give a good hint on what's wrong, and they are very good to google."
    – klutt
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 22:18
  • I can agree with "I'm happy to help you!" being noise. I have been pretty active (and in the past, hyper-overzealous about it in a way that got me a mod warning) about removing noise from posts, though from the perspective of someone who often liases with software maintainers, and who really likes the idea of having those software maintainers active on SO, I think I'd feel a little bit sad deleting that from a post.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:44
  • So in summary, you encourage everyone to remove a sentence like "Please create an issue on GitHub"? Then, that's the same as forbidding....
    – nekketsuuu
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:51
  • As for "Please create an issue on GitHub if you face other similar issues.", I'm not 100% onboard with the idea that this is noise for the reasons I've listed in my answer post (suitability of platform for dealing with software issues, and how raising an issue to a maintainer is on average, probably the most efficient way to get any movement on resolution).
    – starball
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:54
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    I'm not convinced that removing education about efficient and suitable channels to resolve software issues is in line with the overarching mission to make the internet a better place. If the statement was "raise issue tickets for this and never raise SO questions for bugs", then I'd edit it for the reasons in my answer post (personal takes. open to being convinced to other positions).
    – starball
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:54
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    IMO a suggestion "Please create an issue on GitHub" by maintainers/authors/owners is not fluff, as it's important information to users who want to quickly resolve their problems.
    – nekketsuuu
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 23:58
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    @PeterCordes what you are describing seems better fitted as a comment, not an answer, nor a remark within an answer. As a comment, it seems perfectly legitimate. Note that this has been discussed already: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/417523/…
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 9:03
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    @nekketsuuu it's not forbidden because it's not a violation of the ToS or Code of Conduct
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 9:10
  • What I was thinking of was a whole answer that analyzed the situation (e.g. why it's a performance problem) so the suggestion to open an upstream bug report is only one small part of the answer, such as Bubble sort slower with -O3 than -O2 with GCC . Or GCC seemingly misses simple optimization Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 13:12
  • Even for a simpler "yes this is a bug, go report it" Q&A, there can be more to say that doesn't fit in a comment, like comparing different compilers or other architectures. Possible GCC bug when returning struct from a function Also, if I'd posted a minimal version of that as a comment instead of an answer, that would leave the question unanswered. Stack Exchange guidelines discourage answering in comments, unless you're suggesting to post a short answer and then separate comment about the fact that it should be reported upstream? Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 13:13
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    Anyway, in all of those cases, the meat of the answer is the explanation why it's a bug (although in that last case, the OP had already done a pretty good job of identifying the crux of the matter, and correctness bugs don't have as much to explain as performance bugs). The suggestion for what to do next (report upstream) seems like an obvious and natural part of such an answer, for the same reason I'd link to my own upstream bug report if I opened one myself. My downvote on this meta answer is based on it implying that such answers shouldn't suggest reporting upstream. Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 13:17
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    I think we should distinguish between the fluff case ("happy to help", "you can always create GitHub issues") and the specific case ("this was identified in [bug tracker link]", "cases where the unit tests fail in this way are bugs and would be welcomed as GitHub issues"). The problem isn't whether there's a GitHub link, it's whether the recommendation is specific, relevant, and helpful. Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 16:00
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It's not forbidden, nor should it be. One of the tenets of Stack Overflow is to teach, and suggesting to askers who have obviously found a bug to report that bug to the relevant location, so that said bug can be most appropriately addressed and hopefully fixed, is teaching them about a part of software development that they probably don't know about. It's also teaching them how to be good citizens in terms of giving back to the software development community at large. So I wholly disagree that such remarks should generally be considered "fluff", especially when it's the author of the relevant component writing said remarks!

I can however see the viewpoint of the comment being fluff. The question is "how do i fix this problem" and the answer explains that there's a bug, it's fixed in a specific version, and which version. That's all that's needed to answer said question, anything over and above that is unnecessary... but then, you could also argue that the "tabula-py author is here" bit is fluff, too.

Personally I would've been somewhat more direct, for example:

This is a known bug in version 2.8.1 of tabula-py, that is fixed by updating to version 2.8.2.

Should you encounter any future bugs using tabula-py, please report them via a GitHub issue so that I, as the author, can fix it as soon as possible.

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