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The answer post I am referring to is this: https://stackoverflow.com/posts/76688242/revisions

Thank you. I spent an hour looking for a solution until i came across this

There was only ever one revision, with no content that I consider rude or abusive.

And then it got converted to a comment here... under the question- not even under the answer post it was meant to thank (there is (at the time of this writing) only one other / non-deleted answer post).

Why?

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    Doesn't look rude or abusive to me, but is it worth the effort? In the optimal outcome, the question stays deleted, but without the r/a banner.
    – BDL
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:21
  • 4
    @BDL why would the question be deleted? It's the answer that was deleted as R/A. Worth what effort? Effort to raise this on meta? Effort to get it deleted without the wrong reason? That user now has a (as far as I can tell from what I can see) wrongful +1 toward a suspension. Funny to me that the mods are getting accused by the company of chasing new users away from the platform, and now staff are using their mod powers to do stuff like this.
    – starball
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:26
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    Probably because the staff have no idea what they are doing in the flag queues, but they are (probably) being made to work them because the mods aren't.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:30
  • @starball: you are right, I meant answer instead of question.
    – BDL
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:31
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    I mean, there is a camp that posting things that aren't answers in the answer box is technically an abuse of the site/system. I am certainly sympathetic to that view. That being said, this is most likely unfamiliarity with the commands, as staff is filling in for elected/trained moderators due to the ongoing moderation strike.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:34
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    "That user now has a (as far as I can tell from what I can see) wrongful +1 toward a suspension" - No? Suspensions aren't just sourced in spam flag counts. There's always people involved in a suspension. It doesn't count towards anything aside potentially spamram Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:36
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    @ThomA Correct; and they do so with an uncomfortably high error rate. One sweep I did around a month ago found a 30-40% error rate. There's several staff members that struggle with the tools, rules, UI, etc. - some examples include deleting spam rather than flagging it to cause spam deletion (or just marking it helpful and not doing anything), excessive comment editing, and declining NLN flags on blatant noise. From what I've been able to tell, their main focus is spam and R/A flags. There's a couple staff members that go outside that, or at least was. Haven't been paying much attention lately Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:40
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    @TylerH "I mean, there is a camp that posting things that aren't answers in the answer box is technically an abuse of the site/system" - might be the case for the flagger, but not the staff member. It is indeed a lack of familiarity with the tools and processes involved on the mod side of things, which is mostly the recurring theme for the incorrectly handled flags. There's only a couple staff members (particularly CMs that work closely with mods) that match mods in error rate (but not in throughput, because this isn't their job, so they lack the volume practice) Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:42
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    @Zoeisonstrike I had wrongly assumed that R/A/spam contribute to automatic suspension / that automatic suspension is a thing. I just found Are there specific guidelines for suspensions for rude and/or offensive content? (MSE). My bad.
    – starball
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 20:42

2 Answers 2

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I can address this, as the person that converted that answer to a comment. It was an error on my part. I apologize for the mistake, and any disruption or confusion it may have caused. I am relatively new here (the most recent addition to the Community Management team), and still getting a handle on all the different tools and norms across the network, including the appropriate ways to handle different categories of flagged content. The comment in question has now been deleted, and I am taking this as a learning opportunity to better understand moderation on SO.

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    The humility is very much appreciated, especially from someone apparently caught in the crossfire. The goal of the strike is very much to show upper management the extent to which they are dependent on community elected moderators, and what will happen to the site if they continue to pursue their AI-fueled pipe dreams while paying no respect to the source of the content they are sitting on. Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:09
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    Thank you for taking the time to post an answer here, Sasha. I can appreciate that it is likely a difficult time for the CMs, especially new ones, so it's (in my opinion) nice to see such a prompt and honest answer from the staff.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:09
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    Welcome to the chaos :-)
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:33
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    Thank you. It is totally understandable. Mistakes happen, even by experienced mods: I don't understand why a flag concerning "spam" was declined. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 3:37
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    @starball considering that Sasha converted the answer to a comment (which we know was not the right decision either), I don't think the problem is not knowing what is considered spam (I suspect not being familiar with the UI was the cause). But in any case, reading those links won't hurt (it does actually help). Cheers. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 3:46
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    @M--ßţřịƙïñĝ is correct; the conversion to a comment marked the spam flag helpful (note the "S" indicating that the actions were simultaneous), which is...arguably not a particularly useful system behavior (if it really were spam, we wouldn't convert it to a comment). It could be fixed after the fact by selecting "Clear 1 rude or abusive/spam flags" from the mod menu to change the flag to "disputed".
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 3:52
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    @M--ßţřịƙïñĝ I linked to the comment privilege page because it explains the purpose of comments, and when and when not to comment. I linked to the MSE page for the section on rude/abusive flags- not about spam flags. I assumed that the flag that was raised on that post which Sasha didn't know to decline was rude/abusive. Now I know it was a spam flag.
    – starball
    Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 4:10
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Because of the strike

Currently, the already very strained 27 moderators of this site are on strike, and an even smaller group of staff are filling in for them. Available evidence suggests that these staff are not up to the job; they lack training, experience, and the general familiarity with community consensus that elected moderators have - due to having been expected to participate in elections on Meta, participate in Meta generally, and acquire the necessary qualifying badges the hard way.

If the answer discussed here was flagged as "rude or abusive", that was incorrect on the part of the flagger; it should have been flagged "not an answer" instead. As much as some people might consider it an "abuse of the system" to post answers that treat the site as a discussion forum, it is currently the consensus that we do not want to penalize individual instances of this in the same way that we penalize people for, say, expressing bigoted views or belittling the OP in an answer. The rationale for this should be clear.

A moderator who acts on such a flag is, to my understanding from previous discussions with elected moderators, supposed to decline the flag, and then may also independently delete the answer post as "not an answer".

Separate from all of that, however, converting this answer to a comment was clearly wrong no matter what. Messages that just serve to thank someone are not wanted anywhere on the page, as they are noise - as established by the overall SE community all the way back in 2009. I flagged the resulting converted comment as "no longer needed", and the system automatically removed it - as it meets one of the regex rules specifically implemented to keep the site clean of comments just like that one. This is all fundamental stuff that any qualified moderator should intuitively know.

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    "because of the strike" makes no sense to me. I clearly ask why staff did this- not why somebody with mod powers did this / why it happened. Are you saying you think a staff intentionally marked the answer as Rude/Abusive and converted to a comment (which they shouldn't have done) as a direct result of the elected mods being on strike and would not have done this otherwise?
    – starball
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:00
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    No; I'm saying that if the strike weren't going on, staff would not be in the flag queue in the first place, because elected moderators would be doing so instead. Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:02
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    It's cause and effect, @starball . The cause is the strike, the effect is staff members that don't know what they are doing are actioning flags, and they are doing it wrong. Human error or lack of training, I don't know, but they wouldn't be handling flags if the strike wasn't on.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 21:03
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    Are all the SO mods on strike? That's the impression I get from the 1st sentence but I thought some of the SO mods hadn't joined the strike.
    – bad_coder
    Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 9:24
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    @bad_coder-onstrike Last I checked, at least one prominent and active moderator declined to join the strike, though agreed with it, but refused to sign the strike letter. They’re still active doing moderation of different sorts, but I think they’ve cut down on certain tasks. Commented Jul 17, 2023 at 2:18

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