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I have been asked by Stack Overflow to cast my vote in the moderator election.
But, as sadly usual with election systems in the world, there is no “none of the above”, let alone a “I reject the election system itself”, or even a free text option.


Since I recognize anti-social behavior (including the currently popular reverse kind), emerging out of physical and hence emotional distance (So the lack of direct physical human contact required for empathy, which has been shown in research, and emotional resilience.), as one of the key sources of suffering for humanity nowadays, I reject any system of government that fosters:

  • Anonymity (and hence cowardice and deviousness) between directly interacting people
  • Public availability of information about not directly interacting people
    (which enables uninformed judgment and hence irrational hate/love, e.g. “social media”).

In my opinion, flat-hierarchy, de-facto anonymous elections, as mostly practiced in the world today, are such a system.


Additionally, even if elected, I reject an absolutist system of governance, where one monarch or a group of oligarchs have absolute control over defining right and wrong as their own subjective belief of what “the” absolute right and wrong is, as I reject any form of violence or generally restriction of any freedom (except for the freedom to take somebody’s freedom, of course).

In the physical world, this is limited by non-abundance of dimensions of physical spacetime, together with the limitations of a society without networked computers, led to such systems existing in the first place.
But especially in the virtual information space of the Internet, which is for all practical purposes infinitely divisible into fully separated spaces, such a system of governance is at best unnecessary, and at worst a harmful misapplication of concepts out of mere tradition leading to dictatorship.

Yet, “moderation” is an euphemism for exactly that.


So this election feels like everyone being asked something along the same pattern as “Did you stop murdering, yes or no?”… ;)

And I am neither so lazy nor so cowardly, that I would excuse bad things with calling the alternative “too complicated”, nor with shying away from facing above philosophical questions and just letting them run on as if everything was fine and philosophically sane.

I want to cast not my vote, nor my non-vote, but my choice for a better system of governance that solves all of the above problems with zero compromises for anyone:

A “multiverse of hierarchical personal webs of trust”. Where

  1. Any decider is chosen/rejected by those who (mis)trust him, and importantly, is a decider for them and them only.
  2. Deciders of course can choose/reject their own higher-up deciders, leading to a hierarchy of trust and natural social groupings. And, very importantly:
  3. As long as it is the case, disagreements on any thing lead to multiverse splits, aka parallel realities, for that thing and that thing only.

In other words: Nobody ever needs to suffer from being banned or censored or forced by a little dictator. AND nobody ever needs to suffer from being harassed or trolled or vandalized by a little griefer. So the only ones who will reject it, will be those that reject the rights and freedoms of others, whether from above or from below.

All in all,

This is not about expecting Stack Overflow to completely change their ways by tomorrow. Not in this day and age.
This is only me casting my choice, because I was asked to, and want to offer something more, outside of that box. For everyone longing for something “more” too.

And if possible, in a dream, to give me an option to officially do so in the election UI, via a I reject the election system itself or none of the above button.

Can that be done?


Note that in my entire question, “him” and such terms stand for any life form that is also a person and an individual. The widest possible definition applies.

(Also, assume the [philosophy] tag, which I can’t add, to be present here.)

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  • 19
    If you don't like a system and the way it chooses its thought leaders, you can still vote -- with your feet. Nov 15, 2022 at 1:27
  • 9
    And I mean that with the greatest of respect. This system isn't perfect and while many enjoy its benefits, there are others who feel that it could benefit from radical change, but large organizations rarely change internally in such a fashion, and if radical change is what you desire, then your best bet may be to leave and to create your own competing site, one crafted in a way that you feel offers greater benefit to more people. If many agree with you, then who knows how far you can take it? Nov 15, 2022 at 1:33
  • 24
    If you don't want to vote then don't. If there was an option to vote for none-of-the-above then it would be a useless vote. It would be the same as not voting.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:41
  • 26
    The Stack Overflow election doesn't choose a monarch, ruler or any form of governmental position. It chooses a moderator; a person who is expected to keep the site clean and resolve all nasty issues. Think of it like electing a janitor. The only power a janitor has is whether to wipe the floor or not.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:43
  • 28
    If you reject moderation as the idea in itself, then you are severely disillusioned. Without any moderation, Stack Overflow would quickly become a vile cesspool, completely unusable for anything. It's like rejecting the idea of cleaning your room. It's simply not something that can be allowed to happen.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:46
  • 7
    Which universe out of your multiverse of Stack Overflows does a logged-out user see? AIUI, the vast proportion of people who benefit from Stack Overflow do not have user accounts, they find what they're looking for via Google searches. Do you propose making everyone without cookies click a button to say "please don't show me the spam and useless garbage", or does your philosophy allow for moderators to have the power to remove spam and useless garbage in order for the site to be useful for non-logged in users? Beyond that, as a 10k-rep user I can opt into seeing posts deleted by moderators.
    – kaya3
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:48
  • 32
    "nobody ever needs to suffer from being harassed or trolled or vandalized by a little griefer" And that's exactly why we have elected moderators. Trolls, vandalism and harassment are things that moderators deal with so that others don't have to endure it.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:49
  • 12
    Do you not notice the inconsistency between wanting to support all rights if they don't take away another's right while simultaneously lamenting quasi-anonymous elections?
    – forest
    Nov 15, 2022 at 1:49
  • 7
    Would a distribution of cutlery by ladies of aquatic abode be better? Nov 15, 2022 at 3:04
  • 3
    uh, so you can just... not vote? Nov 15, 2022 at 8:38
  • 9
    Anarchy is the word you're looking for. You want no accountability or consequences. You want no rules, you want no repercussions.
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 15, 2022 at 8:52
  • 7
    Also, that "Note" at the end of your answer reads like "Sovereign citizen" drivel: "any life form that is also a person and an individual"...
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 15, 2022 at 8:53
  • 6
    "in the virtual information space of the Internet, which is for all practical purposes infinitely divisible into fully separated spaces, such a system of governance [where one monarch or a group of oligarchs have absolute control over defining right and wrong] is at best unnecessary, and at worst a harmful misapplication of concepts out of mere tradition leading to dictatorship" - oof. So you suggest that people should be allowed to post anything they want, in their own little unmoderated echo chambers? You don't have much experience with the Internet or humanity as a whole, have you?
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 15, 2022 at 11:59
  • 5
    Questions are not designed for ridiculous requests based on twisted misguided assumptions either, so here we are. It is very difficult to take this question seriously. Granted, Machavity managed to write a pretty good answer, so whether it stays open or closed, at this point it's fine either way.
    – E_net4
    Nov 15, 2022 at 15:29
  • 5
    Nothing in the question really seems to explain why not wanting to vote needs it's own button.
    – BSMP
    Nov 15, 2022 at 17:51

2 Answers 2

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This is a muddled mess but here's an easy thing to do

Don't participate

There's a misguided notion (not necessarily just in this context, but in broader democracy in general) that we need to force people to participate and make a choice, but not participating is a vote in of itself. I mean, we used to have lots and lots of candidates for moderator. Now we have 6 (which is up from 5 last year, so a 20% increase...). That is a vote to not participate. It speaks volumes. As of this writing, very few eligible voters have voted

Based on the number of Constituent badges awarded, 9,133 (1.02% of 897,249 eligible) users have voted to date.

And voting in general has gone downhill, (the voted column percents are # voted / total eligible SO visitors who could vote)

Year Candidates Visited SO Visited Election Voted
2021 5 328,410 83,182 28,754 (9%)
2020 6 324,343 84,747 32,225 (10%)
2019 11 236,387 92,007 30,520 (13%)
2018 13 226,336 89,492 30,016 (13%)
2017 10 202,091 89,793 30,584 (15%)

So there's your "none of the above" vote.

Rejecting moderation

This part is muddled quite a bit

Additionally, even if elected, I reject an absolutist system of governance, where one monarch or a group of oligarchs have absolute control over defining right and wrong as their own subjective belief of what “the” absolute right and wrong is, as I reject any form of violence or generally restriction of any freedom (except for the freedom to take somebody’s freedom, of course).

There is no such thing as a true anarchist. No sane person wants to live in pure anarchy, because the resulting chaos is like a wildfire that burns everything it touches (including you). Most anarchists generally are folks who don't like the current government/system, but would prefer a different type of governance, and they don't want to think or talk about it right now. So I take the remainder of your ramblings as "I don't like SO moderation". That's fine, you don't have to like it. Voting or not voting won't change that all that much. All we can do is offer you a chance to change that. Talk to the folks wanting diamonds. Find out what they think moderation is all about. Vote for folks whose views better align with your own. That's democracy. It's a messy process, but that's a feature, not a bug.

The SO system isn't "absolutist". Stack Exchange/Prosus owns the platform you're using. They're paying some talented folks to run the servers, write the software and do other things that make this system possible. In other words, you're using someone else's stuff. They're literally paying for you to have a platform to tell them they suck right now. I think we can all agree that if you own the yard, you can tell people on your lawn to get off when they go too far. But, as SE learned the hard way, when you tell the community to get off your lawn, they will. And they might not come back. Considering that SE doesn't produce the things being consumed (questions and answers) they need us to some extent. So, no, they can't be absolutists because when they played that card it did not go well for anyone.

If you have a problem with the community or SO, post about it. Seriously, that's why Meta is here. At least work the problem. If the network were truly absolutist, they'd just suspend your account without explanation. I don't think that would go well for them.

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  • Perhaps remind us in the answer who is eligible to vote in the Stack Overflow moderator elections? Nov 15, 2022 at 19:07
  • Any community member with 150 reputation may vote in the election
    – Machavity Mod
    Nov 15, 2022 at 19:08
  • Now we have 6 (which is up from 5 last year [...] — if the purpose is to gauge interest, it'd be fairer to say that the trend is constant instead of rising, since last year we did have 6 interested people.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Nov 17, 2022 at 18:07
  • Not voting is apathy, not necessarily a rejection of all options - one might decide any of the above options are perfectly fine and not bother to vote, allowing those who feel more strongly to better express their preferences. I think we mostly hear from the dissatisfied, and so that interpretation gets more amplification. Dec 13, 2022 at 22:25
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Additionally, even if elected, I reject an absolutist system of governance, where one monarch or a group of oligarchs have absolute control over defining right and wrong as their own subjective belief of what “the” absolute right and wrong is, as I reject any form of violence or generally restriction of any freedom (except for the freedom to take somebody’s freedom, of course).

Moderators don't set site policy; in principle at least, that's what Meta is for, and lots of people (including you) are free to participate. They aren't free to operate independently of the broader community consensus about what is and isn't acceptable content/behavior here. In other words, they help enforce rules set by the community; they don't make the rules themselves.

The mere fact that you're posting here indicates that there is no monarch or oligarchy. People who disagree with how things are run here are perfectly free to post on Meta, and other users are free to either agree with or disagree with what you post. The rep threshold for participating in Meta (and therefore site governance) is quite low.

natural social groupings

... except that Stack Overflow isn't a social group, it's a Q&A site. If you're looking primarily for social groupings, that's what social media is for. If you're looking for empathetic in-person interaction, again, that's not what Stack Overflow is for.

Stack Overflow exists for one thing and one thing alone: high-quality Q&A about programming. What you're proposing would completely destroy that: the proposal would, as one of the comments points out, fracture the site into a bunch of semi-private echo chambers. Such a site might be entertaining to at least some participants, but if you're trying to find an answer to a, you know, programming problem, I can't imagine how hard it would be to find it. Would I have to check every echo chamber for the information? Would I have to search through piles of garbage produced by people who don't want to be "ruled" by others and just insist on a private free-for-all? I can't imagine a site like what you're describing being useful to anyone other than the participants. That's certainly not something I'd be interested in participating in.

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