41

Frequently, candidates for a moderator election who do not win are called up later to meet demand.

New election or calling up candidates from a previous election asks the question "when" this happens. However it doesn't address the question of "how" this happens.

Moderators in the chat room for the 2022 election have implied that calling up additional candidates later is a definite possibility, and the number of positions was lower anticipating that.

The STV system includes some situations where the runner up may not have been the next candidate selected with more positions available.

In what order are additional candidates called up later, if/when that happens?

3
  • 1
    I'd imagine the requests would go in order. So, whomever comes in 2nd would be the first person called up if an additional mod is needed. Whomever comes in 3rd would be the next person called if 2 additional Mods are needed or if the person who came in 2nd declines the opportunity if an additional Mod is needed. Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 22:21
  • 2
    @JohnnyBones "comes in second" is a bit more complex with STV (click on "migration of preferences" for example of how it doesn't always work that way) Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 22:34
  • Whether or not they re-apportion the votes, there ultimately is a winner, a runner-up and so on. My memory is hazy on the process here, but I'm pretty sure that as people drop out or get eliminated, their votes are given to other candidates. However it works, in the end there is a score, and the one with the highest score wins. The one with the next highest score is the runner-up, and so on. Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 22:43

2 Answers 2

39

Our system currently runs the election numbers directly with OpaVote - we push a button and it spits out the OpaVote link we share with y'all after running the election based on our pre-defined requirements. It pulls in things like the vote type (STV - Meeks), positions to fill, and the candidate information... all of that is in addition to the votes themselves.

If the mods here ask us to bring in another moderator within six months of the prior election, we actually re-run the election on OpaVote to get the new outcome. While this often leads to the same outcome as picking the second-highest vote recipient, it allows excess votes to be transferred to the second choice candidates of people who selected the winner as their first choice... which can change the outcome.

Also, when there are more seats, the threshold for winning is lower, so the number of votes that are considered "surplus" changes, which can make a huge difference in cases where there was one clear winner.

For example, take a case where we have the following candidates and 1000 votes between them.:

Candidate first second third
Whale 700 200 100
Petunias 100 700 200
Planet 200 100 700

With only a single slot, Whale is the obvious choice and Planet comes in second. If we didn't re-run the election, Planet would get called up. But actually, Petunias is nearly everyone's second choice! So, to avoid this situation, we run the election again. There's a couple of ways we can do this but they generally end up with the same result.

  • we re-run the election without the winners of the original election.
  • we re-run the election with more slots.

Either way, Petunias gets called up instead of Planet... even if the planet always wins in the end.

All silliness aside, please - be sure to select more than your top candidate! We may use that info eventually!

3
  • 11
    Silly Transferable Votes?
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 23:34
  • If you're interested, you can download the ballot file after the election, and then rerun the election with various settings to see who would be the second and third elected moderator for both possible approaches if they choose to call up additional moderators.
    – Erik A
    Commented Nov 15, 2022 at 9:03
  • 1
    The ballot files for all (probably, I haven't actually checked. all recent elections do) previous elections are also still available for public science:tm: Commented Nov 15, 2022 at 10:10
4

This answer specifically complements this remark from Catija:

If the mods here ask us to bring in another moderator within six months of the prior election, we actually re-run the election on OpaVote to get the new outcome.

Unfortunately, the OpaVote GUI doesn't allow unregistered users to re-run an election with a different number of seats. While it is surely not a problem that this be a prerogative of the Community Management team, in general I would like to have the ability to recount ballots with different key parameters.

After searching for a while, I couldn't find any readily available solution. The software available from the download link in the election page also doesn't run on my machine. so I ended up implementing MeekSTV by myself.

You can find a mostly accurate Go implementation* in my github, with a README that explains all you need to know to run the program. To recount ballots with a different number of seats available:

  1. download the ballot .txt file from OpaVote summary page:

enter image description here

  1. add this file to the program's workdir (see README for details)
  2. change the very first line of the ballot file as follows:

Change six candidates, two available seats:

6 2

into six candidates, one available seat:

6 1
  1. recount ballots (see README for details)

To recount ballots with the same number of seats available but the winning candidate(s) removed (keep factor = 0, votes transferred to second choices), change the second line of the file by adding the index of that candidate, negated.

E.g. 6 candidates, 2 seats, remove candidate 5:

6 2
-5

If the second line in the ballot file doesn't already have a negated index (it is instead the first ballot), add it. If it exists, append the negated index next to the others.

The project is rather unrefined at this stage, but it should be enough to satisfy your curiosity — at the very least it satisfies mine.

Disclaimer:

Just to reiterate on-site what the README already says:

This software is in no way a replacement for Stack Overflow's own election process. It is simply meant to make it easier to recount votes with different parameters. The results of any recount done with this program aren't binding and don't prove or disprove anything. This program is exclusively meant to satisfy my — and hopefully your — curiosity.

In other words, whatever responses this software gives to a query, it is not official, and never will be. Refer to the Community Management team for official vote tallies.


*: see the README for known limitations

1
  • 1
    I understand you put considerable effort into this, which is appreciated. However, each election results page (example for election 13) has links to download OpenSTV software for Windows or Mac. Those links claim they are only displayed if you've voted. Experimentally, the actual criteria for display of those links appears to be that the logged-in account has ever voted in any election on that SO/SE site. If those links are not shown, then "all others may use this source distribution" is displayed.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Nov 22, 2022 at 14:21

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .