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Given the number of bad reviews in the Suggested Edits review queue (the problem that has been plaguing the queue since its inception, worsened these days by the queue being close to the threshold of 500 items every day) and the implications of the state of affairs (review suspensions and subsequent complaints), it is overdue that we did something about properly onboarding the new reviewers.

Understanding that an interactive onboarding process (e.g., with test review items with known outcomes) is unlikely to be implemented in a timely fashion (or, honestly, ever, for that matter), the following proposal requests an update that would require only minimal (if any) developer time from the company.

After the recent onboarding overhaul, new reviewers started to get a popup upon entering the queue for the first time (which can also be opened any time by clicking the "Learn more" button under the short queue description). Here is what the current guidance looks like:

The "Learn more" popup content: "How to use the Suggested edits queue. Awarded at 2k reputation. Evaluate proposed edits by users without enough reputation to make direct changes to other users' posts. You can Approve, Improve, or Reject edits. How to work through this queue: 2 users must approve an edit for the post to publish. Edits should maintain the post author’s original intent. Reject edits that are spam, attempt to reply to the post author, or clearly worsen the post. Even small changes can be good edits! Choose Improve edit if a post could use more changes. Skip the task if you aren't sure which action to take. Read more about this queue in our help center."

However, the guidance is either blatantly incorrect, incomplete, or contrary to established community guidelines for editing. Specifically:

  • the first bullet point is actively misleading: upon choosing either the "reject and edit" or "improve" option, a single reviewer is enough to handle the review item. Additionally, if there is a disagreement among reviewers, it can take more than 2 to handle a given item;
  • the second bullet point lacks either an explicit explanation of what preserving the author's intent means (the wording from the Help Center article can be used verbatim: "changes a post to say the opposite, or something very different from what the original post read");
  • the third bullet point needs to at least link to the FAQ on how to make a good edit, which details common reasons why suggested edits can be rejected. Also, it omits to mention the "no improvement whatsoever" common rejection reason (present in the Help Center), opting to focus on the "clearly worsen the post" part, which leads to a lot of confused approvals — good edits have to improve the post in the first place, not just make it "not worse". What's worse, it also glances over another important rejection reason — adding irrelevant tags (or removing the relevant ones). If the intention was that the list is not exhaustive, it should be explicitly indicated as such;
  • the fourth bullet point contains an unnecessary emphasis on the happy path: "Even small changes can be good edits". This focus often leads to a misguided belief amongst reviewers that any small change (even if it misses critical problems with the post) is a good one, but this is contrary to the editing guidelines. Ideally, the prefix should be removed, leaving only the pragmatic advice reviewers should be looking for: "Choose Improve edit if a post could use more changes".

Another part of the problem is that the onboarding popup lacks any guidance for reviewers who were granted the privilege to review tag wiki and excerpt suggested edits, leading to the two most common reasons for bad reviews there: paying no attention to tag excerpts requiring usage guidance (instead of just reiterating what the tech is) and not being on the lookout for copied content.

Both of the abovementioned guidelines are tucked away in the rejection modal and, given there is no indication that the "reject" button opens a modal with a list of reasons instead of submitting the review, is detrimental to onboarding new reviewers to the workflow of the queue.

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    If we get to choose, then I opt to throw some reviewers overboard. Where do I submit my list...
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 14:41
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    @TylerH feel free to submit the list in the bad reviews room :) Yeah, a lot of reviews, unfortunately, are horribly misguided (the primary reason of me requesting at least this small change to be made)...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 15:02
  • "Additionally, if there is a disagreement among reviewers, it can take more than 2 to handle a given item" - It might take more than 2 persons to handle the review, but still only 2 must approve it. Commented Sep 22, 2022 at 15:49
  • Not necessarily, @jmarkmurphy - moderator votes are binding, and any reviewer who picks "Improve edit" or "Reject and edit" is granted a binding vote regardless of disagreement. So the statement that 2 must approve *for the post to publish" (a fuzzy wording in itself) is blatantly misleading.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 22, 2022 at 15:58
  • @OlegValteriswithUkraine I did not address the less that 2 piece. just the part that implies it might take more than 2. In fact, if there is a disagreement, then next approval, regardless of who it is, will allow the review to succeed. Commented Sep 22, 2022 at 16:05
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    Personally, I'm getting far more annoyed by the fact that the edit queue in general is always full. It's actually incredibly rare for me to ever get an edit posted because the threshold is too low. But I feel like this is something discussed verbatim here. Commented Sep 25, 2022 at 0:47
  • My startup streamlines employee overboarding. :-) Commented Oct 3, 2022 at 14:51

4 Answers 4

92

Preface: here are some links to existing Q&A on meta.SE that at least partially support my view. Credit @starball for most of these; there's now also one to new (Mar 2024) discussion, and another link I re-discovered from there.

Should tiny edits be accepted or rejected in review?

Remove trivial edit restriction

Instant approval of revisions for users with edit privileges

Should I approve spelling-and-grammar–only suggested edits?

Not everyone who makes minor edits is looking for reputation

What should be used in place of "Too Minor?"

Does it make sense to be able to unilaterally edit Qs and As but not be able to unilaterally approve edits?

I've also found some existing meta.SO questions where at least the OP agrees with me and the question is well received:

Why can I make, but not approve, edits?

Why can't I approve suggested edits single-handedly?

Proposal: let experienced users approve edits when they view the question first


Respectfully, I don't think it's possible to fix the problem by rewriting the onboarding guidance. I have three general points to make about why the queue is full all the time and why people seem so unhappy with the system overall.

Please accept (and improve) small edits

This focus often leads to a misguided belief amongst reviewers that any small change (even if it misses critical problems with the post) is a good one, but this is contrary to the editing guidelines.

(Emphasis mine) People keep saying this sort of thing, but I can find no evidence for it. The only official "editing guidelines" I can find in the actual staff-provided material are https://stackoverflow.com/help/editing, and the only apparent relevant except is:

Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it.

The word "substantial" is highly vague and subjective. "Leave the post better than you found it", however, is clear: a small improvement is an improvement, and should be accepted. This is corroborated by:

  • The decision to write "Even small edits can be good edits!" in the existing guidance, exclamation mark and all;

  • The intuition that all programmers who use version control should have about edits. Smaller edits give you more control and better organization. Especially if you're being prompted to give a "summary" for each edit.

The idea that an edit should "fix every problem you can find" seems to be a complete invention of the Meta community - if not a single user who was agreed with at the time. Citing revision 3 of the top answer at How do I make a good edit?:

According to the editing guidelines in the help center:

Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it.

Please refrain from making multiple small edits to the same post, especially for suggested edits. Instead, fix everything you can all at once. Additionally, try to improve every aspect of the post that you can. Please try to improve all of the following in a single, comprehensive edit:

I submit that this is a very strained reading at best. And why would we do this? Surely not to cut down on the number of edits that fill the database. So, perhaps to cut down on the number of edits that fill the queue?

Well, see, rejecting a small edit that makes an improvement only very indirectly helps cut down on the number of edits submitted. It only does something about the behaviour of that one editor, and only once that editor gets suspended from making edits. But once the edit is made, it's in the queue. Rejecting it doesn't dequeue it any faster than accepting it; and accepting it has the added advantage of moving the post in the right direction.

Requiring two votes is absurd

Access to the suggested-edit review queue requires the same reputation (2000) as the ability to edit posts unilaterally. IOW: every single person who is permitted to cast these votes, is also permitted to "improve" the edit, make a trivial alteration, and have it immediately accepted.

Incidentally: they're also permitted to "reject" the edit, then make an identical change themselves - thus plagiarizing the change in a way that will be difficult, if not impossible, to detect.

I have said many times before, and I will say it again: there is no good reason why we should have to cast two votes in order to dequeue something in the "standard" way. People are directly incentivized to cheat this system, and there are constant complaints about the queue being full. Why not streamline things?

"But we want to be able to overrule bad accept votes!" Nonsense. That's what rollback is for. Again: the person who made the bad accept vote was equally capable of just submitting that edit directly, without review. We do have oversight, though: it's called rollback. Rollback wars are rare in practice, and Meta (and/or chat) exists to hash these things out when they do come up. We know this. Come on.

The queue can't get emptied if people don't actually use it

You may have noticed there's a common theme here: people respond to incentives, and the current system of incentives is broken.

That extends to use of the queue itself. No amount of guidance on proper use of the queue can make people want to use it. Notice how the guidelines say "How to work through this queue"? People expect to get something in exchange for "work". Instead, they only face discipline for getting it wrong - they don't gain reputation for either approving or rejecting edits.

OTOH, people do gain reputation for submitting an edit and having it approved (which seems to feed into a desire to disincentivize people from spamming suggested edits. by coming up with reasons to reject them). The potential reputation gain there is fairly small (and capped), but it does mean there's an imbalance. Of course people are going to be more interested in submitting edits than reviewing them.

Yet you want a system where at least twice as many review actions as editing actions are required? Assuming people even find the queue in the first place (no, the menu in the top right is not discoverable, for all the same reasons that the checkmark outline isn't, and more)? And where the reviewers are drawn from a pool about zero point seven percent the size of the submitter pool?

Little wonder that things end up as they do.

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    This reminds me of this feature request to be able to review from outside of the queues. It highlights that the review queues are somewhat of a separate section one has to explicitly go to. If reviews were naturally part of the posts we would have much more reviews. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:30
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat Yes, that would be one good way to go about improving discoverability. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:31
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    "Requiring two votes is absurd" I agree, it should at least be three.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 14:41
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    The reason why small edits that don't fix other problems gets push back is that the review queues were being flooded by people trying to score lots of Fake Internet Points (tm) by searching for a common typo and spamming the review queue clogging it up (and if the edits were approved the recently updated question views) with edits that corrected only the typo. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 15:19
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    So don't give them points? If I don't get any points for completely overhauling an important canonical.... Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 15:20
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    Pretty much full agree on headings 1 and 3; I do think encouraging editors to fix as much of a post as they can makes a lot of sense, but I think rejecting edits for "not being substantial enough" is hopelessly subjective and should be relatively rare, it's a silly line to draw.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 16:00
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    That aside, I don't agree with heading #2; one of your main reasonings relies on rollbacks being "good oversight"– rollbacks aren't oversight, they don't allow supervision in any fashion. Instead, they're a mitigation tool for dealing with bad edits; two reviewers required for suggested edit reviews is oversight. I agree that the dissymmetry of this with unilateral 2k edits is weird, but my understanding it that the two reviewer system helps curb abuse that would be more difficult to detect otherwise.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 16:01
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    It could be graded (more than a binary choice). A new option: "Approve as a useful, but not very comprehensive edit." (reputation points not awarded). After 50 of these, the badge "Minor edit gnome" (no, this is more or less official), "WikiGardener", "Intrinsic" (intrinsic motivation), "Fairy", "Elf" or similar would be awarded. This would also be in the spirit of most of the original badge names being puns. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 16:29
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    Funny you mentioned version control. The analogy is not you yourself hacking away at your own project. The analogy is contributors sending you patches with a single typo in comments, and you are now reviewing them. Smaller is not better.
    – Passer By
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 5:49
  • 2
    100% agree with the small edits bit. Wikipedia doesn't impose arbitrary restrictions on contributions because they understand that a first small helpful contribution is generally the preface to future helpful ones. Rolling back an incorrectly-approved edit (reverting a bad commit, to continue with the version control analogy) should be considered standard practice, not seen as a train wreck.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 16, 2022 at 12:08
  • 14
    The company has neglected reviews far too long, it's a completely broken system. Instead of fixing things like broken audits they add even more queues. What are the incentives for doing boring busy-work for a private company that doesn't care the slightest about you or this site? Whom has been pushing for quantity over quality for some 8 years so that the reviewer/user ratio is completely haywire? It's not imaginary internet points and badges at this point. It might have been back in the days, when you could chat directly with the CEO on meta. Fork up real money and I'll do reviews.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 16, 2022 at 14:14
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    Re: "Requiring two votes is absurd". I'm blown away that anyone thought that was a good idea in the first place, because as you said users could just post their own edit without requiring a second vote. However, it's made worse outside the context of review queues: sure when reviewing it's annoying, but if I'm reading a question from a user with no code formatting, and some well-intentioned low-rep user decides to edit in the formatting and I approve their edit, I still have to stare at the mangled post until someone else approves the edit...
    – Kraigolas
    Commented Sep 17, 2022 at 15:31
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    Choosing 'improve' isn't undermining the contribution in any way I can think of - it isn't 'reject and edit'. By applying your own change on top, you get the contribution in place immediately. That sounds more respectful to me, not less. Commented Sep 17, 2022 at 15:38
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    "No amount of guidance on proper use of the queue can make people want to use it" — This
    – sehe
    Commented Sep 18, 2022 at 11:18
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    +100 "People expect to get something in exchange for "work". Instead, they only face discipline for getting it wrong - they don't gain reputation for either approving or rejecting edits." This is more so when the people in question are volunteers ....
    – deep64blue
    Commented Sep 20, 2022 at 9:01
35

An honest review guidance for the Suggested Edit review queue:

How to work through this queue:

  • For the suggested edit to be published, it either needs two approving votes or for a reviewer to improve an already great suggested edit with further editing.

  • Suggested edits must not change the author's intent, including edits to code that change the intended functionality — such edits should be rejected.

  • Reject (or Reject and edit) bad edits that make the post worse, including but not limited to:

    • Spam
    • Vandalism
    • Commentary
    • Plagiarism
    • Irrelevant Tags
    • Edits to code / snippets that change functionality
  • Even small changes can be bad edits! You should not select "Approve" or "Improve edit" if it does not fix the majority of issues in the post (choose Reject and edit if the edit fails to address the critical issues with the post and you want to fix it yourself).

  • Skip the task if you aren't sure which action to take. There is no penalty for skipping a review. On the other hand, approving bad edits hurts the quality of the site, and may lead to a review suspension!

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    Feel free to edit to improve this.
    – Samuel Liew Mod
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 3:46
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    "You must not Approve or Improve Edit if it does not fix other issues in the post." As written, this is bad advice. Fixing one substantive issue is a perfectly acceptable edit. Contrast with, say, this edit which fails to make any substantive improvement (adding a question mark to the end of a title is not an improvement) while also failing to fix other issues.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 4:14
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    Additionally, edits to code should not always be rejected. Obviously correct fixes to answers (e.g., adding a missing semicolon, parenthesis, or fixing a misspelled method name) are totally fair game.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 4:15
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    "You must not Approve or Improve Edit" this sentence is quite difficult to parse as a non-native English speaker. Does it mean "You must not (Approve or Improve Edit)" or "You must (not Approve) or Improve Edit"? If it is the former I don't really see the point of having "Improve Edit" as an option since we will be rejecting unless the edit fixes everything. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 4:54
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    How about something more along the lines of "Small edits can be helpful, if they improve readability or resolve important typographical errors. If, however, the edit fails to significantly improve the post, or does not address the vast majority of problems, consider rejecting the suggestion or rejecting and editting it yourself." This some what wordy though. :/
    – Thom A
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 8:59
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    "adding a question mark to the end of a title is not an improvement" What? It absolutely is (assuming the title was actually phrased as a question, which it certainly appears to have been in that case). I don't understand how so many people can feel otherwise. Do we not agree that correct punctuation is better than incorrect punctuation? Do we not agree that the purpose of the question mark in English is to denote a question; that correct punctuation entails using it; and that its place is at the end of the question? Wouldn't this comment be worse if I omitted the question marks? Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:25
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    @KarlKnechtel "How to X" is not a question. It's a title in the form of a sentence fragment. Adding a question mark makes it less correct, not more, and certainly doesn't make the post even a little bit easier to understand.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:28
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    @KarlKnechtel If anything, adding a question mark without fixing several other issues with the question is problematic enough to warrant rejection, which was the case in the example linked. The issue with the title was not substantive enough in comparison with the other problems not fixed in the edit.
    – E_net4
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:35
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    Edits that change the meaning should be rejected. Changing code is ok as long as it still does what it's supposed to do in a way the original author intended it to.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 14:18
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    @RyanM re: your first comment, that's technically incorrect in the context of the workflow for Suggested Edits passed down from on high years ago. While any edit that improves the post even a little is a good edit, edit suggestions are not edits; they are edit suggestions, and the rules for edit suggestions are different: because they take the effort of two 2k+ users on top of the editor and potentially block other edit suggestions, the threshold for that effort was intentionally made high: edit suggestions must fix all problems with the post that are non-OP-fixable.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 14:35
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    @KarlKnechtel if you want the question title to end in a question mark, you need to make sure it is in the form of a question. E.g. "How do I do X?". Both "How to do X" and "How do I do X" are fine forms, but are not intermingle-able.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 14:40
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    @TylerH " the threshold for that effort was intentionally made high: edit suggestions must fix all problems with the post that are non-OP-fixable." Please cite this claim. I have already shown that stackoverflow.com/help/editing does not say anything of the sort. The site infrastructure, AFAICT, does not refer to "edit suggestions", but to "suggested edits"; and I can find no separate document governing them, beyond what someone decided to write on Meta this one time with no sign of any surrounding discussion. Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 15:01
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    I really don't like the "You should not select 'Approve' or 'Improve edit' if it does not fix all issues in the post." We should not be throwing out otherwise good and substantial edits that happened to miss a single issue in the post, as this line conveys. Edits that are great but imperfect should be improved, not rejected outright. I'm sure these types of edits are less common than the bad ones that correct a single typo and don't touch other glaring errors, but there's gotta be a way to convey guidance that distinguishes "good but imperfect" edits from bad ones.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 15:27
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    Skip would better be the first bullet, not the last one
    – gnat
    Commented Sep 16, 2022 at 12:14
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    @mousetail It should be clear that there is a veritable canyon between rejecting an edit because it touches a code block and rejecting an edit because it wholly or largely rewrites the code solution that was originally given.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 19, 2022 at 13:53
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Since the requirement is that an edit should at least fix one substantial problem with the post, it might be helpful to list what exactly counts as substantial edits and what would be examples of too minor edits. Minor edits could be fine but they need to be accompanied with at least one substantial edit.

Substantial edits:

  • Changes to spelling and/or grammar that clearly improves readability. Including inserting empty lines in a wall of text.

  • Correction of wording to make an unclear post much clearer. Including replacing slang, curses or unclear abbreviations.

  • Removing rude or unfriendly language (also see https://stackoverflow.com/conduct).

  • Removing personal information of the OP such as their e-mail.

  • Pasting in comments from OP into their post. Should be accompanied with an edit comment explaining where the inserted text is coming from. Reviewers should double-check that the OP did indeed leave such a comment.

  • Changes of the wording in the title, making it much clearer what a question is about.

    Note that unlike making major changes to the contents of the post body, it is fine to completely change the wording of a title, in case the present one is unhelpful. Titles like for example "Java problem please help" need to be rewritten from scratch. It's also fine to shorten down very long titles.

  • Significant changes to tags, such as adding missing major tags or removing irrelevant ones.

    Note that adding the programming language tag corresponding to any code in the question is always a correct and significant edit, since this is needed for the site's code formatting.

    "Tag burnination" could be a substantial edit, though users without full privileges shouldn't partake in that simply because it creates too much extra review work. Approve if there's a corresponding meta post about it going, but leave a @username comment below the post to explain that they are creating a lot of extra work for reviewers and should stop. Also, such edits should always attempt to fix other problems in the post.

  • Adding/fixing the code formatting. Including code formatting of any reserved keywords, functions etc in the text body of the post. (Note however that adding code formatting for emphasis is an incorrect edit.)

  • Updating broken links.

    The reviewer need to verify that it isn't an attempt to insert spam - if so, flag the edited post for moderator attention (custom flag), link to the review URL and explain that an editor is trying to insert spam.

  • Removing significant amounts of "fluff" - distracting things that are not relevant to the question. Including "story of my life" anecdotes or other irrelevant background info, post signatures including links not relevant to the question (watch out for spam), inserted rants or opinions etc. Also rude requests like "I need this urgently for school" should be removed.

  • Removing code line numbers preventing the code from compiling. (Consider adding a comment like "line x" in case the OP refers to a specific line number.)

  • Attempts to manually repair a question that has previously been vandalised or otherwise incorrectly edited. Check if rollback is an option.

Too minor edits:

  • A few slight changes to punctuation, capitalisation or minor typos that doesn't really improve readability.
  • Swapping a few words here and there for synonyms because it sounds better.
  • Changing formatting to add/remove emphasis with italics or bold etc.
  • Slight changing of wording in the title of body that doesn't really improve the chances of finding the post.
  • Just removing minor "fluff" like salutations or "Thanks in advance". (There's not really a clear community consensus here, therefore avoid such edits if that's the only thing changed.)
  • Adding one or many minor tags that don't really help with finding the post or defined what the post is about (not what it contains).
  • Minor changes to code formatting like removing too much indention.
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    @NickstandswithUkraine I guess "major" isn't helpful here. It's a fair bit subjective to draw the limit of what's fine and too minor somewhere.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 11:19
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    Is it enough if they fix one substantial problem? I always thought that they should fix all (or at least most) of the substantial problems. I usually reject and edit if someone fixes the code formatting but doesn't fix major text problems like capitalization (i -> I, first letter of sentence). About too minor edits: I think they are fine as long as there are no other major problems with the post.
    – BDL
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 12:02
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    I don't agree with most of the "minor edits" concept. It causes many good edits that in fact improve the posts to be rejected. The way you're showing the criteria is also not accurate, there is community consensus about removing fluff, adjusting indentation, minor tags can be excellent, capitalization+punctuation+typos all in one make for a good edit, etc...
    – bad_coder
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 12:04
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    @BDL That is indeed the running consensus for reviewing suggested edits and it is a very reasonable requirement given how full the queue tends to be. But the help center leaves it ambiguous as per usual, only stating "Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it". That allows quite a bit of freedom.
    – Gimby
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 12:28
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    @BDL Yes they only need to fix one substantial problem, though as many as possible is of course ideal. People do not always have the time/will to go through a whole post. I think I've used reject + edit too in the past for such scenarios, but that's wrong, it should be approve + edit. However if they only did a very minor change while ignoring bigger problems, I would reject (and maybe edit).
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 13:01
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    While the example "I need this urgently for school" request is certainly not suitable for this site, I don't see how it could possibly be construed as 'rude' unless the rest of the question is also worded in a way that's demanding or dismissive of the community's time and effort in answering. Assuming bad intent there relies on assuming the poster already knows that SO is meant to be a knowledge repository and not a time-sensitive tech support service. You could argue that anyone who posts a question here ought to inform themselves about the nature of the site before doing so, Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 22:39
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    but then again it's a well-known fact that people often simply click past and skip stuff like 'about', 'terms and conditions', etc. Someone who has been using SO as a resource for years in a non-interactive way (by Googling their programming problems, then reading the SO q/a's that usually end up as the first result) very likely doesn't realize that it's different from any other forum. (I know this from personal experience!) Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 22:43
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    What tipped me off, as a new user, was actually the auto-fluff-remover algorithm messing with one of my early answer posts. I had started the post with something like "Hi, [username]!", but when I submitted it, the "Hi" got automatically removed. I wasn't sure why this was happening, so went over to the Help page to see if anything about that was mentioned there (of course, you know it is :D). I have to wonder if I ever would have thought to visit that page if not for that surprise disappearing greeting on my first-ever answer... Commented Sep 13, 2022 at 22:50
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    @QuackE.Duck Demanding that unpaid volunteers urgently do your homework/live exam while you sit back and do nothing is incredibly rude in pretty much every known culture around the world.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 6:23
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    I recently submitted an edit that both fixed indentation of code and allowed it to be color-formatted, but it was rejected for "not improving the quality of the post". I'm still not clear how such edits (or ones that only improve code formatting) are bad, other than perhaps helping to flood the queue. I'd think any edit that aids in clarity would be acceptable, but perhaps I'm missing something.
    – jordanz
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 16:50
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    If you are wondering about this edit, @jordanz, then it misses critical issues with the post: doesn't remove noise ("thanks in advance"), fails to add a snippet (posts with code that can be run in the browser should use snippets instead of blocks), haven't added code formatting (right_section), haven't removed excessive bold formatting. Given that indentation would've been autofixed and would've added highlighting should you've chosen to make a runnable snippet, it makes the edit also unnecessary. Hence, the rejection is justified.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 17:31
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    @Oleg Thanks for the information, Oleg. I'll incorporate those points into future edits.
    – jordanz
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 18:19
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    @jordanz no worries - glad to have editors being receptive to general guidelines :) It would be much easier if we had interactive tutorials for both reviewers and editors that just show what is expected of either, but oh well. P.S. Errata to the comment above: "hasn't added", "hasn't removed".
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 14, 2022 at 19:03
  • 2
    @Lundin I am not sure why would you defend taglines and gratitudes in posts. We are not a help forum, we are a repository of questions and answers, there is no place for "politely thanking someone". It is an official policy to remove those. First, see the FAQ. Then, see the consensus here. Then, expected behavior. The list is far from being exhaustive - this is a critical issue with a post. Also, please, note that this is not the sole reason for rejecting [1/...]
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 15, 2022 at 14:14
  • 4
    "Removing personal information of the OP such as their e-mail." I agree this should be edited out, but shouldn't this also be flagged for moderator intervention so it can be removed from the revision history entirely? If so, that should probably be mentioned.
    – Kraigolas
    Commented Sep 17, 2022 at 18:55
8

So, I’ve been mulling this one over for a few weeks…

I’ll start by saying this much: You’re right, to a certain degree. The guidance written there is not very solid, and doesn’t do much to educate new reviewers about the various complexities that can emerge when performing suggested edit reviews. Granted, it’s not supposed to be an in-depth FAQ, given that it’s sidebar guidance, but there are definitely ways it could be improved. While we could go back and forth about what the exact problem(s) are, it suffices, for now, that we agree there is a problem.

But, I’m doubtful that the underlying problems people see in the Suggested Edits queue would be solved by fixing the guidance written on the sidebar. The fact is, most of the problematic behaviors we see folks do in the Suggested Edits queue are behaviors that arise because of the system of incentives set out in the queue, not because the guidance is insufficient.

For example…

  • Reviewers may feel discouraged from accepting good-but-minor edits, because such edits can be perceived as a waste of their (rightfully) valuable time.
  • Users may accept incomplete edits without revision because correcting such an edit is even more time-consuming than just accepting it outright.
  • Users familiar with the queue are incentivized to handle as many edits as possible in order to burn down the queue size.
  • Or, reviewers are also rewarded for hitting review caps, not for careful evaluation. (In fact, they’re penalized slightly for careful evaluation, if they want one of the shiny badges.)

In other words, reviewers may be following incentives that guide them towards incorrect outcomes. I’d be hard-pressed to blame them for doing so when they’re incentivized to do it, even if the outcome is undesirable.

If we really want to fix this problem, we almost definitely need to revisit the incentive structure for suggested edits and their reviews. Changes that would be necessary to remit the actual underlying problem exceed the scope of a copy change (even though the copy absolutely needs updating), so we’ll need to find time for a proper rework on the dev roadmap. When that will be, I simply do not know at this time. For that reason, I’m putting this into .

1
  • Rather than having queues that then hold up everyone else, why not make it possible to search for pending edits that are of interest to a potential reviewer? To my understanding, the purpose of the queues isn't really to impress any sense of urgency upon the review process, but to draw attention to what's been proposed. Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 14:22

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