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As the article is quite small, I'm going to quote the entire article, and add numbering to specific wording:

How to reference material written by others

Plagiarism - posting the work of others with no indication that it is not your own1 - is frowned on by our community, and may result in your answer being down-voted or deleted.

When you find a useful resource that can help answer a question (from another site or in an answer2 on Stack Overflow) make sure you do all of the following:

  • Provide a link to the original page or answer
  • Quote only the relevant portion
  • Provide the name of the original author

Example:

According to Ernest Hemingway - Biographical on Nobelprize.org, Hemingway saw combat when he was a teenager. It says:

After the United States entered the First World War, he joined a volunteer ambulance unit in the Italian army. Serving at the front, he was wounded, was decorated by the Italian Government, and spent considerable time in hospitals ....

[other sources, quotes, explanations, etc. necessary to complete the answer]

Do not copy the complete text of external3 sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own. And always give proper credit to the author and site where you found the text, including a direct link to it.

Firstly we have the opening statement (point 1), that denotes that this is in regards to any work that isn't your own. That is very clear. It'll include off site resources, as well as anything that is on any of the sites within the Stack Overflow Community that you, personally, do not own.

Next we have point 2, where it states the word "answer", which is a specific keyword within Stack Overflow. This could be open to interpretation that for things like comments, you don't need to do what the article says. If the section in parenthesis said "for example from another site or in an answer" then the sentence couldn't be read as exhaustive. This is my interpretation here.

Finally we have the point 3, where it uses the word "external". This is somewhat confusing in my opinion here; what counts as "external"? Is it anything that isn't within the post (Question, comments and answers on the same page)? Anything not on Stack Overflow? Anything not within the Stack Overflow Communities?

To me, this feels like a misnomer, and that external is the incorrect word to use if the intent includes content within Stack Overflow (Communities) as such content could be interpreted as "internal". Example comment from cigien, who stated their opinion on copying comments was:

[Do not copy the complete text of external sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own] doesn't apply here since it's not an external source.

It seems that there could be multiple interpretations here, and that different degrees of the article should be applied depending on original content: If it's an answer and if it's "external".

This is further muddied by the moderator flag response that was given for a declined flag on an answer that was an uncited, unquoted copy of a comment on the same question:

comments are fair game

This very much suggests that the moderator in question is on the side of comments not being included within the boundaries of the help centre's article, which I completely agree is a possible interpretation, though I disagree with that interpretation.

So what is the true intention here? If content on Stack Overflow itself, or content that is "internal" (to the question?) has different guidelines I feel that the article should be more specific. All the content on Stack Overflow is licenced under CC BY-SA and that includes comments. The fact that a comment could be deleted at any point, in my opinion, means that citation is very important, as the original source can be easily lost. That should apply regardless of if the comment is on the same question, or not.

It would be great to hear what the community's interpretation is here as well; I feel that for something like this, it's very important that we all work from the same page.

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    I've always considered the "external" as an example. I've both flagged and handled flags with that in mind, largely resulting in the deletion of whatever content. I never considered the loophole that particular word implies. Sounds like we need an update Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 11:50
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    Yes, this is my interpretation as well, @ZoestandswithUkraine, but it seems that others don't, and I can completely can understand that interpretation too. If a different interpretation to what I (and it appears yourself) have is intended, that's "fine" (though I don't necessarily agree with it) but it should be made clear what that interpretation should be.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 11:52
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine That's very interesting, I've always assumed that comments don't count as external sources, and hence don't require any additional, original content. e.g. Here's a comment as recent as a day ago indicating no such requirement. As a concrete example, since you're a mod, would you delete this answer I posted? It has no original content whatsoever, but I'd assumed that's fine, since it was copied from a comment.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:34
  • That answer is well cited though, @cigien , so I wouldn't suggest it should be deleted; quite the opposite. It's where citation is not that the intent is unclear.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:37
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    Maybe this is just me but... Plagiarism is plagiarism, regardless of the source of the content. If you're directly reposting something that already exists, it's not yours and needs to be cited - answer, comment or decorative pillow! While I'd be OK with updating the article, I feel like saying comments are fair game to directly quote without attribution merely because we tend to assume that people will only be citing other answers in the help center (because comments shouldn't include content like this)... then it feels like they're looking for an excuse to escape sourcing their answer.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:41
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    @Larnu Then I'm a bit confused about point 3 in your question. What does that have to do with attribution exactly? Also, you've quoted a section of my comment from another post, which refers to there being no requirement that comments reposted as answers need to have original content. What does that have to do with attribution either? If this meta post is strictly about attribution (i.e. points 1 and 2), I see no ambiguity in the help center, and this is definitely a duplicate; attribution being mandatory is not disputed as far as I'm aware, and has been covered on Meta before.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:44
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    The whole thing is about attribution, @cigien , and that was what we were discussing in the linked question as well; it was specifically about an answer that was posted as an exact copy of a comment (that was made on another answer on the same question) with no attribution; no details of who made the comment, no link to the original source, and not put into a quote block.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:46
  • @Larnu I'd recommend clarifying the question/title that this meta question is specifically about attribution. I almost commented about the "Do not copy the complete text of external sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own" instead since "If content on Stack Overflow itself, or content that is "internal" (to the question?) has different guidelines I feel that the article should be more specific" is true: copying comment as-is is acceptable since sometimes it's just impossible to add anything without reading the OP's mind (but still, with attribution) [1/2]
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:51
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    @Larnu But nowhere in that linked question was anyone disputing that attribution is required (unless I missed that). The whole discussion in that question was whether moderator intervention is necessary to handle it, and whether the user's flag should have been declined. It sounds like people are reading into the "comments are fair game" message from the mod as indicating that attribution is not required. I'm sure that's not what the mod meant, but if they did, I would really appreciate it if the mod, or the mod team, clarified that. A lot of ink is being spilled on meta over those 4 words.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:51
  • [2/2] while I have personally observed & deleted answers containing a long quoted text only, even with proper attribution.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:55
  • I've removed from the title about comments @AndrewT. ; the question "evolved" as I wrote it, and I agree, that that's a bit misleading now.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 14:58
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    I am, personally, not sure how else you could read those words, @cigien . If I flag a answer as plagiarism of a comment (due to no attribution) and the flag is declined as "Comments are fair game", then that says to me "The answer is ok in it's current form". If that was not the moderators intent, then that statement is wrong. I would more expect the moderator to state something like "Comments are fair game to be copy in full, but still need attribution. This can be added with an edit, and does not require moderator attention." and then decline the flag (or mark it as disputed).
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:00
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    @Larnu As I mentioned in my answer, I read the flag message as being in respones to the request for deletion, but yes, agreed that the message is unclear. Hopefully, the handling mod will answer the linked question, or at least leave a comment, to clarify what they meant.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:14
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    Yes, I personally would really like them to comment too, as I think it would remove a lot of confusion, @cigien . Though Catija's amendment to the page is a good improvement, and I'm happy that at least that article is being updated to better respect what people expect the correct behaviour to be.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:16

1 Answer 1

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I've updated the Help center article in a few ways:

  1. I've made it clear that this list is an example and not exhaustive by adding "e.g." at the start of the parenthetical.
  2. I've removed the "answer" specificity since one could quote pieces of questions, answers, comments... other parts of the UI or help pages or meta or... whatever.
  3. Removed "external" from "external sources" - you shouldn't be quoting huge chunks of SO posts, either.
  4. I specified that answers comprised entirely of a quote will likely be deleted due to lacking original content.
  5. I made a bunch of other changes because it had lots of rules-lawyer-able phrasing.

It now reads:

If you copy (or closely rephrase/reword) content that you did not create into something you post on Stack Overflow (e.g. from another site or elsewhere on Stack Overflow) make sure you do all of the following:

And also:

Do not copy the complete text of sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own. In particular, answers comprised entirely of a quote (sourced or not) will often be deleted since they do not contain any original content.

Always give proper credit to the author and site where you found the text, including a direct link to it. For non-web-based citations, include the source to the best of your ability (title, author, page number, etc).

To reiterate what I wrote in my comment:

I don't believe there's really a concept of "too insignificant for plagiarism". If it's a comment, a question, answer, chat message... if you're duplicating it exactly - reusing someone else's work - toss in a citation. Even if the content could get deleted eventually, that's OK.

As a moderator, I'd often encourage people to flesh out comments from others in answers with the eventual goal of deleting the comment. So if you're quoting it directly and then the comment is going away, you've essentially stolen their work and only mods have access to see the deleted comments.

It's really important in this case to say that you're utilizing the information in the comment directly since they likely put you on the track to answering the question.

That said, it's perfectly possible to know the answer to the question that has a comment that explains the solution - many of us have done that, so this isn't saying that you must always attribute the comment - it's only if you quote it directly or (in my personal preference) if the comment led to you finding the right answer that you might not have otherwise known... even if I'm not quoting directly, I tend to say something like:

The comment by [username] on the question led me to recognizing that the solution to this question is.... [explanation].

I guess you could say that I may over-credit others for their work but I'd far rather give credit and thanks to the people who participated in the work I do than try to pretend I'm an island who did it all herself (when I didn't).

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    I'd suggest changing "When you find a useful resource that can help answer a question" to "When you find a useful resource" People can and do try to rules lawyer such statements to mean that they only need to "do the following" when it's a resource "that can help answer a question". Yes, it was written with the intent to be a general resource and to be read by people who are not nitpicking or rules lawyering. Unfortunately, people do both.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:10
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    I'm a bit conflicted, @Makyen - If I find a useful resource but I'm not using it for anything, I don't need to do anything to cite it. I need some sort of "that is being used to post here" bit. :)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:21
  • Perhaps "content" rather than resource?
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:22
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    How about "If you quote something…", or "When you find a useful resource that you quote (or closely rephrase/reword)…", or "When you find a useful resource from which you copy content that you use on Stack Exchange…", or "If you copy (or closely rephrase/reword) content which you did not create into something you post on Stack Exchange…".
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:29
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    @Makyen Updated the entire page. I may have gone too far but there was a lot of room for improvement.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:46
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    Thanks for updating that page. It looks a lot better now.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 15:55
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    The wording is much clearer now, but removing "external" here "Do not copy the complete text of sources;" means that answers like this are now subject to deletion. Is this intentional? Promoting comments to answers is established practice, and I'm not aware of a requirement that it contain original content. I have no strong feelings either way, but making this a requirement is a deviation from established practice, and should probably only be done after a meta discussion.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 16:07
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    @cigien No, I wouldn't say that it is but I'm somewhat at a loss - this is a general help center page. It can't cover every edge case. It needs to be a relatively quick-to-read explanation. If we make it external only, then someone could just duplicate an answer elsewhere on the site when there's nothing to add - which isn't great, either. It's also network-wide, so there's plenty of room to create more SO-specific policy about this and converting comments to an answer is generally accepted policy. That's also technically not a "source"?
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 16:14
  • Perhaps adding an exception for comments would make sense? It's the only exception to the requirement of original content that I'm aware of. I agree that the help-center should be easy to read, but the entire exercise of editing that page just now spouted from the text being open to misunderstanding. I could easily see a flag being raised on a comment-promoted-to-answer based on the latest wording, and having that flag declined leading to another meta discussion. (Also, I would personally certainly count a comment as a "source")
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 16:20
  • Actually, another exception to the original content requirement is when an OP posts an answer as an edit to their question. Promoting that edit to an actual answer also doesn't require any additional original content as far as I'm aware. I guess we can leave the help-center page in the version it is now (which is certainly an improvement over the previous version), and treat the potential issues with the exceptions as "cross the bridge when we get to it" kind of thing.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 16:35
  • The breadcrumbs put that page in the "answering" category. Is it possible to move this but make sure the old links still work?
    – Laurel
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 2:49
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    @Laurel The page url doesn't actually care which section of the help center the page is in but I do have to pick one and it's not clear what the appropriate alternative would be. The only non-specific one is "our model"... which I guess could work. That said, I don't know whether I can move the section or not so I'll try to investigate on Monday. And, no, it can't be in multiple sections.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 5:39
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    Wow, so now we have something that is immune to rules-lawyering? Catija is truly awesome! (Except she forgot a couple of commas, like after "e.g." and before "make sure". The rogue hyphen in "downvote" also should be stamped out here, too.)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 6:23
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    @CodyGray Fixed those. :D
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Mar 21, 2022 at 13:26
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    @khelwood Yes, that's plagiarism too. Questions containing unattributed copy pasted from textbooks or other Websites occur quite often, but that sort of thing is probably more frequent on other sites like Physics & Math than on SO. Sometimes, it can be quite difficult to get the OP to understand that they need to give attribution...
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Mar 21, 2022 at 22:37

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