-4535

TL;DR – On March 31, 2022, we will discontinue Stack Overflow Jobs and Developer Story. This includes all job listings, saved searches, applications, messages, recommended job matches, job ads, developer story, saved resumes, and the salary calculator.


Back in April 2021, Prashanth posted an update on the transformation of our company and he provided a high-level overview of the changes planned for our Talent business:

We are realigning the Talent business to focus more on customer employer branding and company awareness needs, and moving away from job slots and direct hiring. This will tie the product closer to what we offer through Stack Overflow Advertising [...]

Some of you wondered what practical changes this shift in strategy would bring about. In the months that followed, we realigned our internal teams and mapped out the plan to transform our Talent & Advertising businesses.

Why?

Before going into specific changes, I want to take a moment to talk about why we decided to transform these businesses and products. As we considered the next stage of growth for us as a company, we went back to product fundamentals and asked ourselves: how can we leverage our unique position to solve real, meaningful problems for our users and customers?

While Talent & Jobs helped us get to where we are over the past decade, the talent acquisition space is not one where we have a strong competitive advantage. Developers, as you all know, don’t have a hard time finding job opportunities. The problem is often finding the right opportunity and job boards and sourcing are ineffective solutions. The effort it would take us to truly differentiate in this space is not one we could justify.

Exiting this space allows us to refocus on products that build on our core strengths: knowledge reuse and building communities at scale.

What changes are we making?

The following features will be discontinued and removed from the site by March 31, 2022:

  • Jobs – including job search, saved searches, applications, messages, recommended job matches, and job ads
  • Developer Story and any saved resumes
  • Salary Calculator
  • All emails, settings, and data associated with these features
  • All employer-facing features related to Jobs and Developer Story

What can you expect in the coming months?

  • Late January 2022 – users will no longer be able to create new Developer Stories
  • February 2022 – users will start to see banners and notices on all deprecated features
  • February 2022 – the Salary calculator will no longer be available
  • Early March 2022 – users will be able to easily export all their data related to Jobs & Developer Story
  • March 31, 2022 – all remaining discontinued features will be removed from the site

What are we continuing to support?

The Advertising components of our Talent offering, specifically focused on Employer Branding.

Developers and technologists often want to learn about companies as they begin to evaluate opportunities in order to understand things like the company culture, the work/life balance, the social and environmental policies, the tech stack, and the learning and development opportunities companies offer. This is collectively referred to as “Employer Branding.”

Academy to Innovate HR (AIHR) provides a more detailed explanation of employer branding and how companies think of it as part of their talent strategy. Companies can continue to use Stack Overflow’s Employer Branding solutions to promote their employer brand through company pages and other types of advertising.


Jobs & Talent have been a part of Stack Overflow in some form for almost 12 years and have played a critical role in getting us to this stage as a company. In fact, it was also the first product I worked on when I joined Stack Overflow 5 years ago as a Product Manager. To those of you who have used Jobs or created a Developer Story, on behalf of everyone who has worked on Jobs & Talent over the years, I’d like to thank you for trusting us to be a part of your job search process.

The decision to sunset these products wasn’t a simple one and we understand that this may have an impact on your job search process. If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know by posting them as answers to this question.

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  • 1324
    I really like the Joel Test and the overall layout of SO Jobs. IMO it'll be sad to see it go. Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 18:15
  • 1083
    I'm sad to see SO Jobs go. It was one of my favorite places to search and apply to jobs. The application experience felt more consistent between jobs than other sites.
    – Stevoisiak
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 18:35
  • 460
    I'm really sad to see the salary calculator go. It was a good way of verifying (along with other sources like glassdoor) that I really was being underpaid in one case, and helped me understand what salary to expect when moving to a new city in another. I suggest it to coworkers all the time. Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 20:15
  • 625
    This outright sucks! I got a job from my SO resume. And it's cool to send a link to my resume that is interactive with SO when applying for a job. Plus with jobs posted to SO, you had less chance of it being recruiter spam.
    – mxmissile
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 21:22
  • 444
    I'm really disappointed in this. I've always found SO much better than other job sites for finding quality positions.
    – TrueWill
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 23:49
  • 208
    It's one thing to remove SO jobs, but why remove the salary calculator?
    – jhpratt
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 2:14
  • 553
    I don't use a resume/CV any more, I send people my SO Dev story! You're not asking, you're telling me you will cut off my left arm... Thats what this feels like anyway. While I understand removing the jobs side of things, Dev story adds value to our SO account by giving us a space to publicly broadcast our endeavours, Dev Story increases long term SO user retention. If users move their personal career profile to another platform they will spend less time on SO and then less time in review and other mod queues. Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 3:50
  • 166
    I have no idea what "employer branding" is about. Can you be more specific please what "company pages and other types of advertising" refers to? Is a "company page" the company description part of jobs, just now without position offerings?
    – Bergi
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 7:31
  • 120
    Feature request: can we now finally get rid of the cringe-worthy site title: "Stack Overflow - Where Developers Learn, Share & Build Careers"? How about "where developers compile, link & build binaries" :)
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 11:14
  • 66
    Does this mean the Pluralsight IQ Skill integration will go as well?
    – user692942
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 12:04
  • 246
    As someone who recently found a job through SO Jobs the SO Jobs was light years ahead of many other places, although I believe it could certainly have used a few improvements it's really sad to see it go. I loved that I could filter and find jobs that are actually relevant to me without having to sift through 35345 other job postings that just happened to contain a keyword or something like many other jobs websites do, I'm really disappointed in this.
    – maxshuty
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 14:16
  • 151
    Agreed, @ChrisSchaller! It's one thing to remove Jobs, but why remove the Developer Story? I like keeping all my developer projects in the Story, and it will definitely be nice later on when I'm applying for jobs. I guess I'll have to export it and put it somewhere else (sigh)... am I the only one, or does it seem like everything changes for the worse these days? Maybe I'm just pessimistic.... Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 22:26
  • 278
    Yet another case of destroying something that works and helped many people, and converting it to a useless feature. Good job! keep it going Commented Jan 16, 2022 at 11:13
  • 134
    I feel a certain prestige by having my developer story on SO. It conveys a sense of accomplishment in a way that a resume or a portfolio on a site that's non-industry specific does not (i.e., "Top 5% in <topic>"). It's also worth noting that I'm here commenting because today I went to SO jobs to browse through jobs.
    – Seth
    Commented Jan 18, 2022 at 22:32
  • 204
    This is a rare miss for stack overflow. One of the reasons that I spend time answering questions is because employers can see that I am in the top x% on a certain technology on my developer profile. Please reconsider this change! Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 0:11

111 Answers 111

1676

I have not been looking forward to this day. I've been on both sides of the SO Jobs thing and really liked both. I think this is a loss to the development community at large.

As a job candidate, I've used it extensively. I've also provided some feedback on it over the years. Not all of it has been positive, but I think it's been constructive and helpful in, at least, showing various use cases. SO Jobs helped me find my current role. It was invaluable during my job search. The signal-to-noise ratio of the board is much higher than others I was using at the time and continues to be today.

Which brings me to the other side of SO Jobs. I've used the board to hire over 20 engineers in the past 3 years. Stack Overflow provides the best candidates compared to other inbound candidate pipelines. I've been looking, unsuccessfully, since the initial announcement that SO Jobs was shutting down for something that provides even close to the quality of candidates and have yet to find one. The noise of other locations is extreme and I am not looking forward to April 1 right now.


Something that I ask you to reconsider: Keep the salary calculator. I thought this was maintained based off the yearly developer survey. I believe this feature is helpful to the developer community. As someone who has searched for jobs, it is helpful to know roughly what I should be expecting. As someone who hires, it has been mentioned during salary discussions enough times that I know other developers utilize it. It helps to keep us honest, in terms of salary expectations when hiring for a role. While my company publishes a salary range for its roles, for those that do not - or for those candidates that wish to see if the ranges are appropriate - the calculator can be very helpful in salary discussions.

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  • 121
    Just a quick note: the salary calculator is based off the developer survey, but specifically the 2019 developer survey. It has not been updated since then. I also liked the salary calculator as a feature, but it becomes increasingly less useful when the data starts getting stale because no one is infusing fresh data.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 21:20
  • 205
    @animuson Out of curiosity... why is no one infusing fresh data? Surely that could be easily automated?
    – Clonkex
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 0:25
  • 51
    @animuson Then can we update the data? Or worst case just open source the salary calculator and release anonymized data? I've no doubt a number of people, myself included, would be willing to help upkeep it.
    – jhpratt
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 2:15
  • 32
    @animuson There were developer surveys in 2020 and in 2021, too. Why there were no one to import the new data? The company is big and until now I knew it so, Job SO is one of its top money maker.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 12:43
  • @Clonkex I think, doing something once in a year, maybe it is cheaper by hand.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 12:45
  • 161
    The irony of the most useful feature not having been updated since '19 is not lost on me...
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 18:00
  • 6
    Given, since the survey data is public and anonymized, couldn't someone recreate the salary calculator based on the same data (both now and in the future)?
    – zcoop98
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 19:34
  • Did they ask about salary in the 2020 and 2021 surveys? I know the survey question sets have been pretty wacky the last couple years, so they may have just not included that info.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jan 17, 2022 at 21:56
  • Yes, the 2020 and 2021 surveys asked for the salary as well. It's just that the data wasn't used to update the salary calculator.
    – moy2010
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:48
  • 15
    I am really Sad that SO Jobs are going away. I have personally used it extensively and frequently recommend to lots of people in my network. Please reconsider. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 5:57
  • 9
    It was also a shame when the ability for companies to reach out to users was removed. One company I'm working for hired much of our development team that way, now we're struggling significantly using other methods. As a candidate, I've gotten two contracting opportunities that way. I've tried several other sites to find contracting work, but none work as well as SO, partly because SO highlights my skills so much better than other sites. I'm really sad to see developer stories go away because it's in all my resumes I send out to companies when applying/bidding to jobs.
    – sytech
    Commented Jan 22, 2022 at 17:34
  • 8
    The mods removing comments of people lashing against this decision is the new SO meta. Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 12:39
  • 9
    @WalterMonecke People being unconstructively antagonistic and nasty towards anyone, including the company, has never, and will never, be allowed anywhere on Stack Exchange. There are plenty of valid critiques that are sticking around just fine– the attacks, however, should not.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 17:36
  • 9
    "Stack Overflow provides the best candidates compared to other inbound candidate pipelines." I found this to be true as well. SO has had a competitive advantage for years. I've recommended StackOverflow as THE place to find qualified developers. For one job I posted, the first SO applicant and subsequent applicants were all better than applicants found by other means. And the support from the SO rep was top notch.
    – Rethunk
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 16:16
  • 6
    I wanted to chime in and say that while I haven't gotten a position through Jobs, I had incredible opportunities through it and made very valuable connections. The signal to noise ratio was the best of any job board I could find. I'm also sad about Developer Story. I really liked having it connected to my account. Finally as someone who hires SO boards was priced out of reach for my company for a bit. We just got big enough to afford it. Not mad - business is business - but I am disappointed.
    – Ryanman
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 17:45
458

Out of my long tenure at Stack Overflow, I spent a year as a product manager. My very first task in that role was leading the technical part of the transition from the old Careers CV to the new Developer Story.

A part of that was figuring out how to handle the "custom name", which allowed you to share your CV (and later Developer Story) without an ID in the URL, just your name -- like /story/hans-olo.

"Custom name" was the official name for this feature (later renamed to "public link"), but internally it was called the "vanity slug", which caused me, in one of the first specs I wrote as a PM, to draw this epically underappreciated visual pun:

Well, Dev Story, you had a good run. I once had high hopes in you, but it looks like you weren't meant to be forever.

Rest in peace, Vanity Slug. ❤️

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  • 3
    This feedback might be a little late :D But I quite like how LinkedIn does it.
    – Rob Grant
    Commented Jan 17, 2022 at 11:58
  • 46
    feels like there should be a /story/hans-yolo, too
    – m0sa
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 8:47
  • 4
    I, for one, will miss the vanity slug. SO Jobs itself? Not so much. Either way, time to update my (PDF) CV and remove the link to my Developer Story. Sigh. Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:05
  • 8
    The vanity slug pic is really good. It had a sort of sadness to it but I'm sure that's just because I'm seeing it given the current news. Thanks for sharing. I remember making a picture of a random dev password we generated to help me remember it. Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 23:47
  • 7
    hi @balpha, been a while! I remember this, it was during my first year at Stack! Sunsetting these features has definitely felt bittersweet. Thanks again for everything you've done for Dev Story, and more generally for Stack, over the years
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 20:08
  • 5
    Love the vanity slug! Love it! :) Commented Jan 27, 2022 at 11:39
  • 7
    Despite the bad news, this "vanity-slug" was epic! Commented Jan 29, 2022 at 20:14
  • 9
    Folks, let's replicate the Developer Story ourselves, somewhere, since Stack does not want it anymore. Who's in? Maybe I will see you guys on Github.
    – eppineda
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 17:04
  • @eppineda Did you post a github link? Commented Mar 1, 2022 at 16:34
  • 1
    @AkinOkegbile It appears someone else has started: github.com/jogboms/developer-story. (You are the first person to respond to my suggestion!)
    – eppineda
    Commented Mar 1, 2022 at 22:54
  • 1
    You can save your vanity slug by visiting filenewjob.com/candidates and importing your story, we'll even automatically allocate the same vanity slug to you! Commented Mar 29, 2022 at 10:26
383

The effort it would take us to truly differentiate in this space is not one we could justify

I disagree. I think the amount of effort Stack Overflow would need to differentiate in this space is zero.

It's not about the tech, it's about the types of people that use it. My experience with the SO job boards has been that of much higher quality, more relevant jobs than LinkedIn or Indeed. I don't know what it's like from the other side, but I get hundreds of irrelevent messages on LinkedIn vs a handful of relevant messages here.

Sad times.

Edit: A couple of other thoughts following comments.

I'll add a quote from the "Why use jobs" page:

We're as committed to putting you in control of your job search as we are to helping you get answers to your programming questions

That page lists a rule against most of the problems I have with a site like LinkedIn. I think this is the thing that separates SO to me, you build a community around solving coding problems, and provide a selection of curated additional tools, while guarding that community against spam recruiter messages. That the site is able to do that sets it apart from my perspective, and shows much more respect for the time of its users than other companies. It's a shame that other job boards don't have something similar.

I also understand that there's a cost to maintaining a job portal that may not see a great amount of use, which is hard to justify for a company that provides a free product but needs to pay wages.

I almost want a site with a job portal that doesn't get used much. It means users are choosing to engage when they're looking to move. I think there could be a pipeline that feeds into this, say using the current salary tool to then highlight other jobs, but understand this takes development time and has a maintenance/operation cost, which may not be easy to justify.

I think SO does a great job supporting its community, although I know that's not always a smooth or easy process.

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  • 22
    I appreciate your feedback and I’m glad to hear you had positive experiences with Jobs. When we look at overall usage & engagement, though, less than 1% of our monthly users engaged with Jobs and, of those, most never received any messages from employers. Most employers found our sourcing system too restrictive or difficult to work with. (1/2)
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:08
  • 20
    We would need to spend a lot more time & effort to address these issues, and we’d likely still be behind competing products where recruitment is their primary focus. We’d rather spend that effort on improving our core platform and products that are more closely aligned with it. (2/2)
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:09
  • 17
    Thank you for the reply and clarification, I understand your concerns. I think the appeal of the platform is that it's not recruitment focused, strange though it sounds I almost feel like the low engagement numbers are a good thing. It means there's a community around a common problem, with extra tools provided when useful, one of those being a job portal that (in my experience) has a smaller selection of higher quality job adverts than other sites. Unfortunately, I also understand that from a business perspective, with cost of development, that's probably not a good business case.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 10:55
  • 20
    LinkedIn by comparison, much of the focus is around personal branding or recruitment. So drive by messages from recruiters that haven't bothered reading my profile seem to be common place. I think because the focus isn't on recruitment here, that practice is much lower.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 11:01
  • 6
    I might just not like the whole process of finding a job.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 11:02
  • 2
    I suppose what's lacking within the industry is more a "specialized job board", I'm a bit of a niche software engineer/data science/HPC person anyway, and a lot of jobs aren't relevant to me.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 11:07
  • 4
    My experience with being contacted by recruiters via SO mimics yours of being contacted by drive-by recruiters on linkedin. Neither has been a good source for organic job prospects, if you want something you have to go get it/make connections. Inflating your rep in the hopes that it'd attract a company via your profile is laughable
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 16:35
  • 4
    @KevinB fair, I've only used stack overflow jobs twice (one of which led to my current job), so my sample size isn't great, but I've never had messages from recruiters unless I've set my profile to looking for jobs. LinkedIn I got those once or twice a week until I disabled my account. I wouldn't bother trying to inflate my profile score here to help my job search, you're right that's silly, and not really the point I was trying to make.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 17:38
  • 94
    @PuneetMulchandani Most employers found our sourcing system too restrictive or difficult to work with. - And that's what would actually be a big plus for devs - it filters out employers who only use automated mailing lists with hundreds of robots-recruiters.
    – extempl
    Commented Feb 5, 2022 at 3:26
  • 7
    I'm curious what other space there is where recruiters aren't allowed to advertise jobs and so it cuts out the meddling middle-person and helps developers hire and be hired? Anyone know of a similar site? I cannot help but assume this is money driven and they want to allow recruiters to advertise instead - lazy, easy money. Man, I hope I'm wrong.
    – noelicus
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 10:33
  • 4
    @PuneetMulchandani That is quantitative, not qualitative argument. I'm sure that over time, you would be the place to go for great developers. Also, why not let the community to build that part of the SO as an open source?
    – Gonzi
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 10:34
  • 2
    @ZPiDER any suggestions? Ironically, I just had a look for some recommendations, the top tend to be either GitHub or StackOverflow, which I kinda like, it's the "there when you need it, don't harass our users" type product.
    – alwaysmpe
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 14:58
  • 3
    Maybe the trouble is that industry recruiters aren't nerdy enough to use the job boards and, instead, prefer to mass-spam us without bothering to actually target their talent?
    – eppineda
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 17:07
  • 9
    I always kind of viewed SO jobs as being for the recruited, and not designed for the recruiter. Thats what make it so appealing to your users. Maybe you were trying to market it to the wrong crowd. I'm always excited when I start a new job hunt, until I unexpectedly apply to a recruiting firm that won't stop calling me with useless job offers i'm neither interested in nor a good fit for. Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 19:32
  • 6
    @extempl The 1% mentioned here occurs because users here don't have unlimited knowledge nor employers have unlimited funds as well. People here are sincere, they openly accept of knowing not enough, while in LinkedIn so many people lie about probably already knowing everything just perfect. 1/2
    – Eve
    Commented Feb 9, 2022 at 1:17
282

Well this is sad. Does SO now have a parent company that understands only revenue and not how useful a jobs board is on a site like SO?

Discontinuing the jobs board is a profoundly bad move, and an insult to your faithful users over the years.

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  • 44
    You do realize that this decision was made and announced before the acquisition, and that the parent company has nothing to do with it? Conspiratorial thinking to blame it on someone else may be the easy out, but the blame for making this decision rests entirely on us and no one else. Please don't bring irrelevant factors into it.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 18, 2022 at 16:05
  • @animuson Thanks, it helped a lot! Sorry I had no intent to do that; I never forgot to mention that the for us available facts are not enough to have a clear answer. Now I am trying to understand the aihr link mentioned in the post. The content is clearly for companies and not for employee, as also the paying customers of the Job SO were companies and not we. :-) If I understand it well, the company is now probably trying to create some employer branding solution, I am very curious for it, altough probably not I will be a paying customer for that as well.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 18, 2022 at 17:23
  • 13
    "an insult to your faithful users" I think you overestimate how valued the "Jobs" section is, to most users. I've heard a lot of "Why is SE invested in jobs?! It's a Q&A site!", over the years. Besides, as the announcement mentioned, there are better platforms out there.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 7:52
  • 24
    @Cerbrus There is room enough for opinions on both sides. I think SO is a logical place for persons with high technical ability to connect with employers seeking certain skillsets. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 12:55
  • 54
    @Cerbrus "Better platforms out there?" I think SO users who have found gainful employment on SO's jobs board would agree SO's board is more than sufficient. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 13:09
  • 5
    Your opinion is clear, Keith; You don't need to repeat that twice. Jobs has never been the primary drive for users to visit this platform, and as I said, there are plenty of regulars that would prefer if the company spent more time on improving the Q&A side, instead. There are other platforms that do "jobs" just as well, if not better. I'm not saying Jobs didn't function, I'm saying that it's not the end of the world that it's being shut down.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 13:21
  • @animuson I read finally this. Well, my opinion about the Job SO closure, as I wrote in my deleted post, did not change. But I wish you to have more luck with it as I can predict.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 21:58
  • When reading rigid opinions as "SO should better focus on what it does better, which is improving Q&A", just wonder what would be Google today if would stubbornly only develop Google Search, so no Gmail, no Maps, no AdSense, no Android, no Chrome, no NodeJS, no anything else would appear, can you imagine such horror story? Or imagine going in a restaurant, asking "I would like a pizza" and being answered "only orange juice here or else go out from here", would you ever visit again that place? Google put it well "do not do evil" to the users. Well said: because users created the Q&A content
    – Eve
    Commented Feb 9, 2022 at 2:33
  • 3
    @animuson 'this decision rests entirely on us and no one else' ... it is always refreshing to hear the truth, so let us know if it's not actually some scenario where once taking a framework and setting a forum online with user created content, in several months / or years? but why years? / after polishing everything on it, the employees there cannot explain to their employer why they are still getting paid. Oups ?? So they start suggesting "let's do this or that instead", "killing" the well living platform after delivering it, just to deserve their salary (any "definition of done", anyone?)
    – Eve
    Commented Feb 9, 2022 at 2:46
  • @Eve My thoughts exactly. As the best QA site, there's not much else to improve apart from keeping it 100% fast & available. So managers gotta manage something, developers gotta code something. Funny thing is I suppose the monetization of Jobs was super healthy, why not just add/remove random bars/buttons/tabs/columns as usual? Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 19:50
  • 2
    SO job board was my first option whenever I started looking for Jobs, so sad to see it go. But nothing I can do as a user, the management has made it choice
    – devMoki
    Commented Mar 28, 2022 at 8:00
240

Although I have known for some time that Talent/Jobs was going away, I didn't realize that Developer Story would be part of that sunset. That's profoundly disappointing; I know traction wasn't super, super great on that feature, but I actually use it when applying for jobs (granted, with modifications). Is there any chance of getting someone to take over this feature in some way? LinkedIn doesn't quite cut it in my opinion.

Edit: On a personal note, even before I worked at Stack, I thought what was then Stack Overflow Careers was the best developer job board available. I applied to Stack through it, and I've used it since, both from the employer side and the candidate side. I still haven't found one I think works as well, and while I certainly have some bias -- and knew this time would come -- it's still sad to see this fine product -- and the work we did on it -- go away. Thank you to everyone who worked on it, and props to my former colleagues for making something that helped developers with their careers in a real, tangible way, at least for a few years.

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  • "Is there any chance of getting someone to take over this feature in some way?" Do you mean someone internal at Stack, or something more like Cassidy's Polywork page? I wonder if a feature like Developer Story can stand alone as a product without Talent/Jobs supporting it? Commented Feb 13, 2022 at 12:04
  • @JessTelford Closer to the latter. I happen to know that the Dev Story codebase has almost nothing to do with the Jobs/Talent codebase (Conway's law at work), but I'm thinking more of "can we have a thing that takes Dev Story data in some form and puts it on a page." It could lend more credibility if Stack did host it -- maybe as an optional feature of the Stack user profile instead of something separate -- but I don't know that there's interest. Heck, even a way to get close via a GitHub profile page would be better than nothing.
    – Andrew
    Commented Feb 14, 2022 at 20:25
  • 7
    Jobs was so much better than anything else out there. Your underestimating it's value to the community and your company.
    – btilford
    Commented Mar 1, 2022 at 17:33
  • 2
    Because dev story doesn't require active work on their part, just data saved by users and stats pulled from the site itself, I am surprised they feel the need to sunset it too. It's a low risk, low cost feature that increases interest and engagement they don't need to remove when they remove something that actually takes effort and they aren't seeing gains from.
    – Andrew
    Commented Mar 3, 2022 at 14:44
  • 2
    it is truly pathetic to see a company that offered something decent, that took it almost zero maintenance on their part decide to discontinue it even though the site is pretended to be governed by it's users.
    – Tim
    Commented Mar 28, 2022 at 18:19
  • Can't believe it I only found out about this today, although I had been noticing the lack of ads for a while now, but thought that was just a change in the reaction to my job preferences. Anyway, just to add to the chorus that this is really sad. StackOverflow was by far the best job listing platform I have ever used. Besides the cool interface and the interesting ads, what stood out for me is that if felt like most of the jobs ads came directly from the companies, instead of recruiters. I hope some other company follows the same approach or that this will return some day...
    – Nagev
    Commented May 18, 2022 at 16:07
172

Please keep the salary calculator around. Yes, the data is out of date, but that can presumably be fixed without a ton of effort.

If you don't want to maintain it, please open source it and release the relevant raw data (anonymized, of course). The community will certainly maintain it.

3
  • 8
    I think the numbers of the salary calculator are surreal for my region, but it is still more than nothing. Glassdoor/Kununu gave for me more exact results (if I compare them to the companies I know).
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 17, 2022 at 0:13
  • 1
    The dataset is available here: insights.stackoverflow.com/survey. Someone needs to reverse-engineer it. I have some thoughts on how to do it but not the time right now. Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 16:57
  • 1
    @Harshvardhan That's why it should just be open-sourced. If they're not going to use it, there's no reason they shouldn't do that.
    – jhpratt
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 23:25
105

and job ads

Sad day. I spent four years of my life building and maintaining those things. At least the company ads still have a bit of life left...

But all things change. Hopefully this decision frees up Stack to do many more successful things!

10
  • Yes, this is sad. Most software has a limited lifespan (for whatever reason). Hopefully some general software components and/or gained knowledge can live on. Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 13:27
  • 4
    "Job ads" may cease to exist but there are future problems to solve that may require the structure and capabilities implemented previously
    – user11765486
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 13:27
  • 9
    "Greed" is different from "we need to keep the servers running, the lights on, and make sure employees get paid". If an endeavor costs more money than it makes, it is unsustainable, regardless of how many people are attached to it. The bottom line is that these business ventures did not pan out, and did not even make "break even" revenue. Continuing to throw money down the drain would be insanity and would eventually lead to collapse.
    – rossipedia
    Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 17:30
  • 9
    @rossipedia And would you please tell me how you know this is unprofitable? Maybe it's just not profitable "enough"? Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 13:14
  • Whether it's not profitable "at all" or just not profitable "enough" the outcome/conclusion is still the same.
    – rossipedia
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 15:46
  • 4
    "Hiring software engineers is quite a profitable business" For the 5 years I worked for SO, that was definitely not true at all.
    – rossipedia
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 5:21
  • 2
    @rossipedia "Smart boss, simple worker: wage decrease, worktime increase; smart worker, simple boss: wage increase, worktime decrease or both; smart boss, smart worker: wage increase, worktime decrease, profit increase"
    – Eve
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 16:52
  • 4
    The fees for recruiting devs were really high. Can't see how this wasn't profitable. The high fees were justified, since you had a unique position in the market. Still can't believe that storing this data would cost more than you make with selling it 😕
    – SwissCoder
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 9:25
  • Terrible decision. One that SO leadership will regret later on.
    – Hahnemann
    Commented Mar 28, 2022 at 16:03
  • 1
    They could have made job boards a paid feature. I would way rather use SO jobs than LinkedIn Premium at $40/mo.
    – www139
    Commented Feb 16, 2023 at 17:22
102

While I understand the decision, it's sad to see the Developer Story going away, and so soon. It was always a good place to showcase one's achievements both on Stack Overflow and worldwide. I hope that some of its features could creep back into the plain Stack Overflow user profile in the future.

8
  • 30
    Prosus (the company who bought SO) is just pushing greed. This is a result of that. Why keep something we devs like but makes little money when you can put those engineers and resources to "better" use? Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 12:43
  • 8
    @WalterMonecke I hadn't paid enough attention to that, but now a lot of things make sense - they're tearing down what made SE great, wrecking the user interface, chopping off used parts of it and trying to 'streamline' into something that will probably end up seeing their usership drop then wonder why everyone left...
    – Andrew
    Commented Jan 27, 2022 at 13:36
  • 15
    I don't understand the decision. I expected Jobs charges companies for each post. Isn't that a way to make money. Why drop a feature that makes money. I'd understand if they drop maintenance, but why drop the feature?
    – Pablo H
    Commented Jan 27, 2022 at 15:17
  • 3
    @PabloH because in their minds it's probably not profitable enough or the current generated revenue doesn't justify the purchase price Prosus paid. They will try tome come up with new "features". Commented Jan 27, 2022 at 18:10
  • @PabloH Jobs was likely a commercial failure because it was improperly priced in its entirety, focusing on mega-corp budget acquisition (I was a potential customer). I agree that Prosus is doing this out of what they think is greedy, however, as a developer entrepreneur myself I have to criticize the decision. IMO, at best this is business incompetence given the economic attention to human capital acquisition during the middle of the pandemic. At worst, it's some internal corporate demagogue's pet project. Regardless, it entirely ignores the inflationary + supply pressures everywhere. Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 21:07
  • 2
    @JasonRStevensCFA this was in process before Prosus, FYI
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 21:12
  • @KevinB Thank you for the heads up! I find the entire decision tree incredibly fascinating from a business perspective. Commented Feb 8, 2022 at 15:44
  • 2
    @SztupY I have created a feature request meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/416017/…
    – DionStav
    Commented Feb 18, 2022 at 21:47
93

They were the only job listings I enjoyed reading, and I saw them several times a week (when I wasn't at work, where I usually use an extension to hide them. Seems wrong to read them at work).

We are realigning the Talent business to focus more on customer employer branding and company awareness needs, and moving away from job slots and direct hiring.

Don't get me wrong; I'm going to be very happy never to be told to update my developer story again.

But I've never understood this shift. It would be interesting if you could share what that really means beyond -- idk, more general ads?

I mean, you said this...

Developers and technologists often want to learn about companies as they begin to evaluate opportunities in order to understand things like the company culture, the work/life balance, the social and environmental policies, the tech stack, and the learning and development opportunities companies offer. This is collectively referred to as “Employer Branding.”

If jobs aren't a part of that "branding and needs", why is your user base going to view that content? Why do I care about a company's work/life balance if I don't want to apply? I can tell you the only reason I ever access that content now is to see if I want to work at that company.

Is this going to be like the IBM commercials I see during football games? I've always wondered who those influence. They're so generic, and just say "cloud" over and over without any data, it's gotta be for non-technical managers. They sure don't appeal to me, someone who can spell "zeroes and ones".

In other words, how does a focus on 3rd party branding mesh with devs who are by definition of being here focusing on the nuts and bolts of software development, not making brands? Other sites, maybe (??), but SO? :confused: If the goal is to entice devs to work at companies and remove the conduit to apply and see open jobs, how do you show companies it's working? Because you provide earmarked links to their own careers page? Is that what we're doing -- dropping the overhead of running and matching listings?

Or are your new clients like Linode and Azure and AWS? Mongo vs. Cosmos? Are the adverts supposed to have us try out techs and sell their providers to our managers? That makes more sense to me, but doesn't really fit with the lifestyle stuff in your "Employer Branding" description, though.

Idk. Recruiters around here take home 20% of a new hire's first year's pay from the company using them to hire. And oh man they're worth it right now. Maybe you're not charging enough? Or allowing enough companies to use your services?

What you've got are interested, motivated devs reading your site every day. Seems you'd do better to pivot to selling cellular subscriptions, training sites, VR, and, idk, home mortgages than descriptions of tech companies' work/life balance.

Or, you know, have you thought of running job openings? ;^D

3
  • 2
    I think the meaning of these sentences is that they remove the Job SO and no more. They suggest existing customers to use other, already existing SO services (teams, ads), but none of these are meant to step into the place of the Job SO. I can only hope that it will be more gain for them than harm.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 17, 2022 at 0:09
  • 3
    As far as I understand, they just use this practically meaningless marketing jargon to say that they are going to monetize the job offerings. If someone wants to publish a job, they must pay and the transactions between potential employees and employers will go through SO and not directly. Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 8:50
  • 4
    This feels like part of the same trend as Google no longer showing good search results. If you give people easy access to the thing that they're actually looking for, it's harder to sell advertising as it's no longer needed. Commented Mar 2, 2022 at 0:31
88

I think that Developer Story is extremely useful part of the SO.

The section that displays that you are in x% of all time answerers for some technologies is really useful. You can add that info in your resume and use it when applying to positions relevant to these technologies.

Maybe you can reconsider to leave the Developer Story section?

5
  • Is it though? I've seen resumes come across my desk for people who claim to be in the upper percentile for technology that I'm hiring for (like Spring), and yet they've never seen "Failed to load ApplicationContext" during the normal course of their tenure at wherever it was they worked. Also, the Developer Story is strictly not opt-out and it's kinda stuck there once you fill it out. That's probably an issue with some newer laws now.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 16:54
  • 3
    @Makoto, Precisely, with SO it is possible to easily check this information. Similarly, you can analyze the answers to estimate the level of the candidate.
    – vernou
    Commented Jan 23, 2022 at 13:21
  • 10
    @NeNad, At a minimum, I hope the section with x% will be retained.
    – vernou
    Commented Jan 23, 2022 at 13:25
  • I totally agree! @vernou
    – NeNaD
    Commented Jan 23, 2022 at 13:30
  • 7
    I would even be willing to pay a small annual subscription fee for the convenience of not having to maintain some HTML/CSS or Word document and hosting it somewhere publicly available. Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 19:32
83

The removal of the Developer Story is quite unfortunate. The links to my Developer Story, along with my GitHub, were large factors in me getting my first development job. It's a nice overview that links to my profile if they want more depth.

I suppose I can just link directly to my profile, but that's not the same. Being able to combine my SO accomplishments with my life accomplishments in one page was really nice.

3
  • Isn't there an export button? Use that as basis for an CV. That said, I've only had to use an CV with my internship. All jobs after that were basically employers that found me through LinkedIn, or word of mouth.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 7:48
  • 2
    @Cerbrus You can export the Traditional View, ya. I liked having it hosted so I can link to it though. I had it so my resume was less developer-focused, and then links to my GitHub/SO profile highlighted my developer traits. Maybe I just to focus my resume? Regardless, I found it to be nice supplemental material to provide with my resume. Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:00
  • @Cerbrus you can export, but there's some issues with that. First it's static data, I'm curently top 10% for SQL, I could answer more questions and end up top 5% or top 1% but there's nowhere to get that update once it's sunset, second having the page under SE's control put higher trust value in the data from those % and pluralsight badges. It gave an independent place to verify that top 10% SQL on the site and 277/300 pluralsight IQ in TSQL. That's what's lost with static, exported data.
    – Andrew
    Commented Mar 2, 2022 at 17:03
78

Couldn't differentiate yourself? but you were already the only good place to look for a job, by a wide margin!

4
  • 2
    I'm glad to hear that you found the quality of listings higher on SO Jobs, this was one of the key principles we followed when making product decisions. Unfortunately, traffic alone wasn't enough of a differentiator in the recruitment tech space and we were lagging behind other competing products when it came to candidate engagement. If you're interested, check out the related comment I made on this post.
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:19
  • 17
    "You" have a self-sustainable community right now. Keep removing features and switch the focus from the users/helpful content, to more commercial stuff. But, good luck in the chosen direction, it will be fun to watch how bad decisions destroy good stuff. In this way, you will see a different kind of sunset.
    – n1kkou
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 17:22
  • 2
    @PuneetMulchandani if possible post a link to a relevant chat about this topic (if there is such 1), as probably comments here don't allow for extended discussions on it. Users perceive Jobs not as a "product" as you call it but instead as a service, if possible even with "continuous delivery" / and improvement / at their end, not something done once, therefore ready, delivered, then dead. I wonder if you couldn't just use the platform to ask users about how to improve this "product" (many could recognize the best Jobs offers service aspects when they see it) or marketing experts here, too
    – Eve
    Commented Feb 9, 2022 at 3:26
  • 1
    @PuneetMulchandani SO jobs is way better than other platforms(and it has the most related jobs unlike other job board websites), removing it definitely will hurt most of ours future job search. Removing useful features will only hurt engagement further. Great advice from Eve that you can basically ask your users here about how to improve these features instead of killing it. No business knows better than their users. My $0.02
    – CanCode
    Commented Feb 10, 2022 at 18:46
74

I wish this post would include some bold warning, like "Hey, go to your https://stackoverflow.com/users/story/current and export it, because you know, we're killing CVs".

It's just sad that people at SO care so little about users data. There is no indication in Profile tab as well.

Edit: I see there is timeline where indicators for users will appear somewhere undecided date in February, BUT, why this is not first step after publishing this post?

Why wait if everything is decided? Users should see notices in their profiles right after this post appeared, optionally linking to this post.

13
  • 2
    "February 2022 – users will start to see banners and notices on all deprecated features" this will occur in the very near future.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 16:43
  • 2
    "> Late January 2022 – users will no longer be able to create new Developer Stories" well, this will bang them as well without notice, but I see what yo mean
    – user555121
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 16:50
  • Being unable to create new ones, doesn't prevent exporting
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 16:51
  • 2
    Still this timeline makes little sense, edited my answer.
    – user555121
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 16:56
  • 10
    The banner explaining that developer story will be going away will go live at the same time we stop allowing new stories to be created, sometime in January. The February timeline is for adding notices to other Jobs features. There also isn't any export feature for developer story yet, unless you want it as a static PDF. That feature isn't coming until March.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 17:20
  • 3
    Instead of ranting right away, you should have taken the time to actually read the post. In addition to the banners others have already mentioned it also says "Early March 2022 – users will be able to easily export all their data related to Jobs & Developer Story"
    – idmean
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 17:49
  • 2
    @idmean isntead of poor communication, you should notify users in a more practical way instead of writing poorly written post somewhere in meta, and also I lost you at "Why?" section, so
    – user555121
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 17:52
  • 5
    @Kos I did not write that post but I was indeed able to understand it just fine.
    – idmean
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 17:55
  • 3
    @animuson I think many users have been trained to ignore those banners. I hope I'm wrong though.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Jan 15, 2022 at 1:49
  • 2
    @41686d6564 Not using those banners, at least not for the dev story notices.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 15, 2022 at 4:15
  • 1
    Additional warnings and notices will appear closer to the date, these are currently in development. Most of the export features already exist but they’re in a few different places and typically scoped to exporting all your data, not just what’s associated with Jobs and Developer Story. We’re in the process of creating a simpler flow that would allow users to export this data in one shot. We opted to share this post here earlier so that people had a heads-up that these changes were underway.
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:07
  • 7
    For those who don't want to wait till March for a JSON exporter, check out developerstory.dev - I built it to get my own data and figured others might get use from it too! Commented Feb 12, 2022 at 4:34
  • Buckminster Fuller is alleged to have said, "To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.". I think the are more than enough developers upset about these changes to build a better model of SO jobs. Let SO do their thing, band together and build a new one 😀 Commented Mar 28, 2022 at 17:35
59

The majority of the DMs I get on LinkedIn mention my SO developer story (specifically the Python top x%). I have freshers/juniors asking me how to get a good ranking on SO, motivated to start asking and answering questions on the platform!

I will not comment on the JOBS feature as I read both sides of it in the other answers and I honestly agree to both.

However, why remove the developer story?

  • Wouldn't you want your users to "show off" their ranks, reputation, and profiles?

  • Doesn't that help with attracting actual contributors to the platform and not just passerby's who need to Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V some code snippets (Guilty of this personally)?

  • Isn't the point of all this gamification on the platform, including the reputation league, just to augment a coder's CV?


There are 3 links that I consider as my core market value in this coding community -

  1. My Linkedin
  2. My Github
  3. My SO developer story

I would hate for it to go away without any plans of integrating the good elements of this tab into the user profile page! Please do consider those who have used the developer tab as a core part of their profile for so long!

18
  • 26
    +1000. Sunsetting Jobs is Stack Overflow business, and they can do as they see fit. But Developer SO story is our business.
    – VonC
    Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 22:30
  • 3
    Fresher - 2. (India) A fresh graduate looking for one's first job. Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 23:19
  • You have "Top 0.1% Stack Overflow" in your LinkedIn profile... I'm not sure that's entirely honest, as even your developer story only lists you as top 1% in python?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 8:00
  • It's an old update on my profile. I was 0.04% last year by December. Also, I am not sure why that is important. I read your comments on other answers (yes went through the majority of those), and I was wondering what your constructive thoughts on the issue above, rather than checking the validity of my linkedin profile :) Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 8:06
  • Also, the reason I linked the url was to have another portal for showing support to the issue but it seems I it would be better to not bias my answer with that. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 8:07
  • I find it unfortunate that so many misguided companies have began relying on tag scores on a QA site as a measure of skill. Removing developer story will hopefully reduce that trend.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 16:01
  • 2
    @KevinB - beg to differ! by your logic companies should ignore GitHub, because anyone could "fork" a repo and show it as their projects. By your logic, CV's should not even be a thing because you cant measure skill looking at a CV. You misunderstand; tag scores are not a measure of skill but a highlight on a CV. The true measure of technical skill can only be assessed (if at all) after someone has spent significant time working in an organization/team. Let's not mix up the 2 aspects here. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:37
  • 1
    @AkshaySehgal github is difficult to fake. SO score is ridiculously easy to obtain. It's literally a game of quantity over quality. Post 10 answers a day, regardless of quality, and your rep will go up enough to be top 1% in a month. it's entirely meaningless.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:39
  • 6
    Disagree again. It takes time and patience to get a reputation on SO. Its that time / effort that is valued here. Not one is saying one should judge how proficient someone is in a language by looking at SO reputation. But one CAN assess the passion, effort, time someone has put into the coding community as a measure of their reputation. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:42
  • 1
    I agree on the quality of questions. But why would you gauge the quality of a skill from a Q&A site? That's not the point here though. Why not have someone show off their contribution to the community? When I show the answers I am proud of on my profile page, I want technical recruiters to see how I can summarize, explain, solve & articulate an answer to a question, regardless of the technical "quality" of the question. Some of the best-voted answers on SO are the most well-articulated answers to the simplest of problems that any coding toddler could solve. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:45
  • Let me put this another way: What value, if any, does knowing that a potential future employee felt required to have a score on a Q&A site because they thought it'd help them get a job and therefore begrudgingly participated there to earn said rep?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:48
  • What value did that person add to the Q&A community, by answering easy duplicated hundreds of times questions?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:49
  • 3
    @KevinB - I mentioned a case in my above comment. It seems you are not only questioning the developer profile but the reputation system as a whole! I agree it's not perfect, but it is better than any other platform out there. The duplicate questions is definitely something SO needs to solve with better question matching. Right now their search is so bad that I have to use google to search SO questions to mark them as duplicate, rather than their own search! But thats a separate issue! Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:50
  • 2
    Also, anyone who is smart enough to consider SO as a hiring criteria should understand how the platform works in the first place (including its limitations). An example is my future employer (spoilers!) actually interviewed me on this answer that I wrote on SO as a dedicated 45 minute round. Thats an example of using the candidates SO profile the right way for hiring! Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 17:57
  • 1
    Yeah agreed. There's a new platform I found a few weeks back which looks promising on the dev story and jobs front (its only for devs from what I can see not sure about Testers etc) thefullstack.network
    – MetaCoder
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 13:59
56

A Eulogy to Careers 2.0

When I joined Stack Exchange, I got a bunch of Careers 2.0 swag. I used the cardboard Careers 2.0 coasters until they were completely stained with coffee rings and were thrown out. I just checked and my Careers 2.0 pen no longer writes. I didn't get the T-shirt, but something tells me it would be in threads by now. Such is life in a universe governed by the second law of thermodynamics.

The original announcement has not aged well either:

One day, you’ll be telling your grandchildren about getting a programming job, version 1.0. You would send a “resume” to a “recruiter.” It included all kinds of silly information required by the esoteric resume ritual (foreign languages spoken, whether or not you play ultimate Frisbee, Microsoft-veteran status). This so-called “information” was utterly useless at determining whether you could program or not, but if you spelled everything right and used suitable fonts, you could come in for a day of interviews at which you would be asked to perform mundane programming tasks on a whiteboard.

Every time I've applied for a job (including at Stack Exchange), I've provided my resume. Joel was correct that it's "utterly useless at determining whether you could program or not", but resumes are still part of the hiring ritual and Stack Overflow failed at iconoclasm.

Why it failed is not a question I'm best suited to answer, but that won't stop me from trying. Shortly after I was hired at Stack Exchange I found out a good friend was interviewing programmers for his startup. So I asked him if he'd tried Stack Overflow's job listings. His answer was something like, "Sure, but it's really expensive. And we didn't get any good candidates, so we didn't renew." That was, more or less, the diagnosis I heard internally a few years later. Even in the new era of Careers 2.0, recruiters required resumes and Stack Overflow's service didn't provide enough of them.

It sure doesn't help that the job search market has been saturated with competitors lately. As an aside, have you seen the Indeed commercials featuring Major League pitchers Mariano Rivera and Max Scherzer coaching job applicants? It's all about humor and hope. There's barely any indication of what features Indeed brings to the table. Turns out most people are more interested in the idea that the right job is out there and that they can get it.

I will miss having my CV on Stack Overflow. It's been helpful to have a place where I can keep a sort of career diary. Probably better if I keep it on my blog or GitHub README or (shudder) LinkedIn, but there's something nice about seeing I'm in the top 5% of answerers in Oracle. (Well, maybe I should highlight SQL instead.) No idea if it will help me get my next job, but it's fun to see.

When I was a programmer at Raytheon, a huge defense contractor, I used to dream of getting a job at some tiny upstart (say, Google). The idea that someone would see my Stack Overflow profile and offer me an exciting new adventure (as we are programmed to call our new jobs) was thrilling. The reality of getting offers out of the blue (including one from Google) doesn't feel so glamorous. Great opportunities don't get filled by recruiters cold calling (or rather, messaging) potential candidates. Desirable jobs, in my experience, get filled by qualified candidates without a lot of beating the bushes to flush them out.

I'm glad Stack Overflow eventually landed on Teams as the core revenue-generating product. While I have a few misgivings about Collectives, it's easier to see how the new products fit into the strengths of Stack Overflow. Careers 2.0/Talent/Jobs was a noble endeavor that never got pointed in just the right direction to succeed. There's nothing easy about scaling a business without compromising core values. That so many people worked so hard and for so long on what turned out to be a lost cause is, of course, discouraging. But there is honor in the struggle regardless of the results.

7
  • 1
    "There's barely any indication of what features Indeed brings to the table." But do they make you want to use Indeed? I mean, there's no better warrior-god playing than Max, the organ was hilarious, & I know which one is the freaking pitching eye, but have you seen the applicants Indeed churns out? Many are not top-shelf, self-screened, intrinsically motivated devs. I mean, maybe Apple, Google, and MS can convince us to apply by bombarding us, but didn't we already know if we wanted to work there?
    – ruffin
    Commented Jan 14, 2022 at 23:29
  • 3
    @ruffin: I didn't use Indeed when I was laid off, but in fairness I don't think they'd yet hit on the idea of using pitchers as pitchmen. My point wasn't that Indeed was better at providing candidates or even any good. Instead I was hoping to communicate that 1) they're trying to get more people to use the service as applicants and 2) there are tons of job search companies these days. I also think it's hilarious that Max Scherzer was between jobs, had 30 employers knocking on his door and he picked the Mets. Maybe not the best career coach. Commented Jan 15, 2022 at 0:10
  • 2
    "Desirable jobs, in my experience, get filled by qualified candidates without a lot of beating the bushes to flush them out." How do these qualified candidates find the jobs in your experience? Commented Jan 23, 2022 at 16:55
  • I mean, I have gotten great opportunities by recruiter cold calls. I like boring companies, you all can fight over who gets the one exciting position at Google making the next thing they'll kill off in 2 years. I'm quite happy making a decent living doing interesting, practical things at companies people underestimate or forgot about.
    – jrh
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 0:14
  • 1
    @WestCoastProjects: Personal contacts mostly. Though thinking about it a bit more, I'm probably overstating it a bit because of my unique experiences. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 15:52
  • 2
    @jrh Your work does not sound boring. It appears you actually mean lesser known . That makes more sense: one can often do more interesting work at lesser known since you have a wider impact within the company. A tiny piece of work at a huge company may affect more people but it's hard to "feel" that day to day. Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 16:26
  • 1
    Instead of wasting development efforts on the stupid filter feature which adds no value to end-users, you could’ve continued with the jobs and developer story. At least they were not useless. Commented Apr 1, 2022 at 10:25
49

Congratulations on posting the most downvoted question on meta — ever!

It is a great opportunity to remember the second most upvoted question ever: I'm resigning as a Stack Overflow community elected moderator

The departure of Stack Overflow's management's views and priorities from the needs and opinions of its very own community cannot be better demonstrated than by chopping off jobs and the developer story.

Truly ground-breaking!

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  • 7
    +1 Extremely funny in an absurdly sad and enlightening sort of way. This answer deserves more votes. Commented Feb 18, 2022 at 22:06
  • 3
    As of right now (4/4/2022), I'm pretty sure this is the most downvoted question Stack Exchange has ever seen, on a meta site or otherwise.
    – Ollie
    Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 15:35
48

So, now that the only adequate and SPAM free job resource goes away, what are the alternatives? Surely, not LinkedIn, Glassdoor and all those other sites filled with fake positions leading to 3rd party, 3rd rate HR agencies.

What will you use from now on?

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  • 2
    Probably connections in industry, if I were to be honest. Or I may finally bite on one of those Amazon recruiter emails that I'm always getting. More seriously, I want to assure you that just because Jobs is going way this doesn't mean that there isn't a way to find a job in tech anymore. Jobs was definitely not the end-all be-all of technology or finding a tech gig.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 16:53
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    @Makoto Yes, but it was a kinda of lighthouse, a ray of hope in the sea of irrelevance.
    – Svyatoslav
    Commented Jan 23, 2022 at 15:56
  • 4
    I think SO is the best place for REMOTE jobs. Even you can find alternatives they are more suitable for finding local jobs but not for remote ones. If you know any good resources for remote jobs please advise.
    – Eddie Deng
    Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 13:59
  • 1
    As a front-end web developer: build a portfolio website to showcase your work. As a back-end or any other software developer: showcase your work on GitHub and pick a decent template to build a portfolio website using a low-code tool like Webflow? Start technical writing on DEV.to. Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 16:07
  • More than half my professional career, now, has been at jobs I got -- easily -- through SO Jobs. I guess next time I'll just spend weeks wading through spam instead. Really sad :/ Commented Jun 6, 2023 at 2:45
  • It's been only a couple of days, but Otta has been ok for me so far. We'll see if it holds up. Commented Nov 16, 2023 at 5:05
43

While Talent & Jobs helped us get to where we are over the past decade, the talent acquisition space is not one where we have a strong competitive advantage. Developers, as you all know, don’t have a hard time finding job opportunities. The problem is often finding the right opportunity and job boards and sourcing are ineffective solutions. The effort it would take us to truly differentiate in this space is not one we could justify.

The way I see it, your competitive advantage is:

  • You have one of the best-known online resources for developers. This makes it a natural destination for those who are looking for good developers.
  • A lot of developers are already using the site to build a portfolio of sorts by posting answers that demonstrate their knowledge and their desire and ability to effectively share their knowledge. Letting them incorporate that into an online resume, and use that to find jobs, seems like a natural extension.
  • You have an extensive tagging system to tell you what a question is about, and to allow you to effectively search for questions about any complex combination (involving union, intersection, exclusion, etc.) of topics. Even though you can't compete with search engines in terms of plain text searches, especially given that you haven't invested much into building up your search functionality, more complex searches can still sometimes be better on Stack Overflow (if you make good use of tags). The same system should, in theory, also allow for meaningful tagging and effective searching of both developers and jobs (and effective matching between them).
  • You also have the Developer Survey, that allows you to get a good idea of what developers want (and those are the exact same developers who are using your platform). You can use this to improve Stack Overflow Jobs by adding or removing features in a way most useful to developers.
  • You may have one of the most useful user feedback systems (in the form of Meta) that many companies would dream of having. SO staff isn't currently too active here, but if it's used well, it could help immensely with anything you build.

As for problems, I could probably summarise that as: the Developer Story. It groups all your experience and achievements into 1 sequential list. This goes against every recommendation for resume writing I've ever seen. It gives an answer I spent 10 minutes writing (if I deem it useful enough to list there) about the same prominence as a job I spent a few years doing (and the PluralSight tests are given higher prominence than everything else). I suppose it's supposed to be a story, but it makes it hard to easily see the different jobs someone has held, and for how long, and what education they have. But that's just one opinion, and I suppose there should be quite a few others who like the Developer Story.

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    The points you’ve described here are exactly how the Jobs platform functioned and why it was a major part of our strategy over the past decade. Unfortunately, traffic alone doesn’t cut it in the recruitment tech space; we lacked enough candidate engagement especially when compared to other competing products. Less than 1% of our monthly traffic engaged with Jobs and only ~0.03% have a Developer Story that’s visible to employers. (1/2)
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:39
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    These are solvable problems - for example, the suggestions you made about improving Developer Story are all valid. What we can’t justify is spending the time & effort needed to excel in this space compared to all the other things we could be doing. Our core isn’t tech recruitment and we would always lag behind others in the space that are solely focused on these problems. Making these changes allow us to spend more time improving our core knowledge sharing platform and the products that are closely aligned with it. (2/2)
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:39
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    @PuneetMulchandani So what changes can we expect from SO over the next few years as you free up resources and redirect them towards your core tech? Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 19:42
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Every job I've had in the last several years was due to a connection made on Stack Overflow.

Not from the Jobs product... but from directly interacting with like-minded folks when I answer their questions.

I probably would have used Jobs to find people myself, but the product was extremely expensive for smaller companies or for short term engagements. I probably would have used Jobs to find a job, but the companies posting weren't often the type of companies I wanted to work for.

If you create a product along the lines of jobs/careers in the future, I hope that you do so in a way that can be used by more people, and for more types of gigs. Stack Overflow needs better ways for humans to network together.

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    "but from directly interacting with like-minded folks when I answer their questions." I mean, elephant in the room, you also, um, have a SO rep of 150k. If I had a job in (checks profile) Node.js, php, or vanilla front-end work (not a put-down. We need so much more vanillaJS), you'd have to literally curse me to hell in an interview for me not to want to hire you, and I'd still likely try to do it even from hell, depending on what circle you put me in.
    – ruffin
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 16:52
  • @ruffin Ha! Well, amazingly the number of fake internet points don't actually mean much usually. :-) The people that contact me usually do so over a specific question or two. The same goes for when I contact them. I see your point though.
    – Brad
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 20:44
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    We considered & experimented with a self-serve option for Jobs aimed at smaller companies. However, this resulted in two major problems: 1) we had no way to monitor & manage the quality of listings being posted; 2) smaller companies typically posted 1-2 listings for a short duration (eg 30 days) which did not result in enough candidates for them to justify using the platform. In reality, most developers don’t actively seek out opportunities via job boards; they rely increasingly more on their network and connections, similar to your experience of interacting with like-minded folks.
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:26
  • 1
    @Punnet Thank you for the reply
    – Brad
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 21:18
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This is ridiculously short-sighted.

Financial decisions being made at this company are atrocious as they consistently miss the forest for the trees.

While Jobs may not have been as lucrative as other revenue sources at Stack Overflow, it served as a unique way to engage users, leading to user retention and content creation.

The only reason this place works is because of user engagement, and removing any aspect that will drop the group of actual experts interacting here should be seen as red hot don't touch.

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  • "Financial decisions being made at this company are atrocious as they consistently miss the forest for the trees." What do you know about the financials involved in this decision? You're calling this shortsighted based on... What? Your perception of use of Jobs?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 8:33
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    @Cerbrus A whole heck of a lot, and if you are curious about this conversation you may want to do some research before just wading in full force. Start here: youtube.com/watch?v=zMfxd9y0cMY, and since you interested let's just cliff notes some highlights. $70M revenue: $44M Jobs, $16M Ads, $10M Teams. This was from April 2019 so it is a little dated, but still, it hasn't been all that long; clearly teams has grown since then. That said, it is clear that Jobs was a strong source of revenue, regardless of how necessarily profitable it was, it was a large source of user engagement.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 17:12
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    The problem was that it didn't have the growth potential that other features had, and as a result they are shuttering it, even though it was so widely used that for a long time it was the primary source of revenue. I have had extensive conversations about this with Shog, Jon, Blufeet, and Jaydles about this over several years, and about revenue in general at Stack Overflow since 2017 or so. Unfortunately most of the people who actually know how this place works are gone, and there is a growing group of people now getting used to a new normal where a "community run environment" is a pipe dream.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 17:12
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    Travis, that is a lot of background information that's pretty crucial to this answer, which isn't exactly public/common knowledge. I've never ever heard of that YouTube channel, nor are we privy to whatever you discussed with those people. That's what my comment was about. This answer makes some claims... Correct or not, there's no information in it to back it up. TL;DR: Please cite your sources :D
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 17:31
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    That's fair, but I don't always have time to rehash half a decades worth of history in a post unfortunately, and perhaps I just assume too much common knowledge about some of the topics here.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 18:04
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    One could call the Developer Story a 'loss leader', @Cerbrus A loss leader doesn't make much money for a company and it might even run at a small steady loss. It is worth keeping though, due to synergistic effects without which profitable parts of the company would be subject to much less growth, revenue, profit, whatever.
    – Ellie K
    Commented Feb 5, 2022 at 10:27
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To save the story before it's removed, we've made https://www.getmanfred.com/stackoverflowgeddon, where you can export it as a JSON with an open source CV schema.

It's not the first "SO dev story exporter", but it tries to solve the problem where our CVs are tied to a specific service.

To avoid it, we currently allow users to synchronize their CV with GitHub, but there are plans in the near future to synchronize it with other platforms as well.

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This is a huge disappointment. SO Jobs has been a reliable, clear and easily parsable resource for job postings. Unlike many other sites, the structure, readability and general vibe of the postings was particularly suited to my expectations (and those of my other technical friends). Perhaps I have a naive view of how demanding the maintenance of Jobs is, but my feelings right now are along the lines of "shut up and just leave it alone". You mention finding it hard to be competitive against other sites. Well, is it a competition? Are a couple of abstracted metrics all you're interested in? In other words, do you prioritize quantity over quality? When I'm viewing job postings, I don't give a damn about "employer branding" or "company awareness". What I care about is:

  • a no-bullshit description of what the job in question entails
  • what the company does, so I can make an ethical choice
  • a reasonably standardized posting format so I have a rough idea of what I can find there

I understand that SO is, in a very real sense, a business. But I've also (perhaps naively) thought that it was as much (or almost as much) about community. For a community the local perception of value of something like Jobs might be much more important than some global comparison with some external services. I must also say I'm rather put off by your attempts to euphemistically beat about the bush with expressions such as "sunset" or "competitive advantage". Perhaps I'm wrong in suspecting that deciding one way or another would make a difference to your finances, but my feeling is that at some point, somewhere in SO a bunch of managerial-type guys got together and started mumbling the usual biz-talk BS about "blah blah growth" and "blah blah next generation" without stopping for once to consider what the actual "blah blah community" finds good, useful and valuable. Sorry for being blunt, but I've seen that kind of sugar-coated talk too many times.

To summarize my rant, I have a couple of points TL;DR-style:

  • You don't have to compete against the big players to be good. Jobs has certainly been good enough for thousands, maybe millions of people. Why take it away?
  • If something is good (or good enough) it doesn't always mean you need to keep tweaking it. You don't have the resources to keep pushing it forward? Fine, maybe just leave it as is.
  • If you have to make an unpopular decision, try not to sugar-coat it and sell it as a "benefit to the community". This might insult the intelligence of your users.
  • A few honest words go a long way, as opposed to the same old generic template of how "we're so sorry, but...".
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Early in the morning waking up to hear this news is very heartbreaking and very sad news to me. I was online almost every day and trying to answer the questions just to increase points bit by bit. Which is very satisfying to me. As the more questions I answered I go to the TOP X%.

SO job listing had the jobs where any other big portals don't have those wonderful jobs. In fact, I got couple of job offers from SO from the countries where I couldn't imagine.

After this removal, where will the employers post their jobs? I know there are several many other portals. But to me, SO had the best job portal and had the perfect filters.

It's my wish that the SO should rethink this decision.

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  • "After this removal where will the employers" One of the hundreds of other sites out there? Or just LinkedIn...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 8:15
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    I have used several portal for jobs including LinkedIn. But none of them have the filters and labels with this much of clear information on the jobs posted. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 5:56
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This is deeply disappointing. Stack Overflow was hands-down one of the best litmus tests I had for employers. When I was contacted by a recruiter, or I decided to reach out to them, I would send along my SO Developer Story. If they countered with "we also need a resume" then I knew they didn't pay enough attention to "where developers spend time, get questions answered, and build community." That was enough to tell me they wouldn't value me as a developer in the ways I needed, and I moved on.

Losing this basic litmus is painful. I'm sure glad the new owners have decided that their bottom line and "inability to differentiate themselves in some ill-defined marketing category" is more important than the value the actual community has found in the tools we've been given.

My honest hope is that someone builds an opt-in SO Dev Story alternative. Poll the APIs, build out the stats, and recompile the most relevant points, plus-or-minus some functionality to customize. Seems like a great opportunity, one I wish I had spare cycles for.

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    can we have alternatives ? so far I found flowcv.io and jsonresume.org, SO was the best place for having fresh CV, sad. Commented Feb 2, 2022 at 18:17
  • @ozkanpakdil I created devstory.fyi with an import feature that will allow you to migrate and continue managing your story. Let me know what you think! Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 4:00
  • looks like a nice service, but must say I decided to not use any of cv services anymore. safer to keep private. Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 10:16
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Please don't remove the Job listing. There are many who is really trusting SO Job and developer story which would be hard once the deprecations.

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Removing Jobs from the portal would reduce the gamification of the site, resulting in fewer people answering questions, which would in turn reduce the value of the Q&A aspect of the site too.

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    [Citation needed]. Plenty of users are grinding out rep just fine, whilst ignoring the fact Jobs exists.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 8:09
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    Can confirm - my gamification of the site in the mid-2010s didn't slow down a tick because of the existence of Jobs. It's slowed down for more obvious reasons in later years, though.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 16:52
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    jobs didn't exist when i was most driven by the gamification. Jobs being added only annoyed me.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 16:53
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    None of the Jobs features affect rep & privileges on the site. It was intentionally designed to be separate from Q&A
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:05
  • 3
    @PuneetMulchandani The loss of the "top %" section on Developer Story is most likely the reduction in gamification that Zesty is referring to here, and it's something I agree on - part of my SE engagement was driven by the desire to narrow that percentage and put forward that developer story as part of my applications for developer roles, showing those numbers off. Without Dev story my attention while on SE may move off to more hobby related sites.
    – Andrew
    Commented Mar 2, 2022 at 17:21
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It's simply sad to read so many comments like "I got my first job thanks to this", "I got my current role with SO", knowing what a loss it will be for the people to come and won't have that opportunity. I'm not one of them, but I've searched the job listing occasionally because of things like transparent salary, Joel test and current employers integration with their own SO accounts.

While it looks demanding from "our" side, this site is what it is thanks to the people who use it and answer all the questions. 99,9% of them are simply non-affiliated people that use their time moderating and answering issues of other developers.

The explanation, at least for me, made no sense either. It does not explain, with words a regular user can understand, what are the next steps. Other than SO as a company does not want to maintain the job postings anymore.

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    Next steps? There are no next steps other than shutting down jobs, as you can read under "What can you expect in the coming months?"
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 8:14
  • I agree I got my first gig off here a few years back...sad....although a new platform I found a few weeks back which looks promising on the dev story and jobs front (its only for devs from what I can see not sure about Testers etc) thefullstack.network
    – MetaCoder
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 14:01
  • Probably the management has looked at profit margins over at LinkedIn etc. and decided that it will be more profitable to take a slice of that cake, for instance by selling them ads. Hence the next announcement was meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/416964/… .
    – Nemo
    Commented Apr 2, 2022 at 17:54
22

Well, now more of a feature suggestion, but can you all take the good bits of the CV, Developer story and move them into the profile? Letting people tell other people who they are is core part of community building.

I ask this as someone who was using their SO Jobs profile as the canonical source of resume information, and now I guess I have to go back to USAJobs or notepad or something.

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  • What is "notepad"? Do you mean Notepad? Or some online notepad? If yes, which one? Something else? Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 8:34
  • I mean Notepad. Commented Jan 24, 2022 at 13:54
  • 2
    I second this request. I have used my developer story as my resume for the last decade or so, to great success. Its great to be able to tell a recruiter "my resume is hosted on SO, here is a link:" Losing the dev story is a big personal loss for me.
    – Nick
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 16:46
  • Third. 87654321 Commented Feb 8, 2022 at 9:38
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SO Jobs got a lot of my face time since I spend a lot of time on the site. I'm a bit surprised the company could not make it work financially given the opportunity to gain the attention of so many serious developers. Also I did not find the postings annoying: it did not turn me off from the site.

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    I'm glad to hear that you didn't find the posts intrusive, we spent a lot of time trying to strike a good balance between promoting relevant content and not being disruptive. Check out the comments I posted here, it's related to this topic.
    – Puneet Mulchandani StaffMod
    Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 19:23
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It's sad to see Developer Story disappearing. I've used the PDF version of my developer story in all of my applications. Also I used to check my rank in top tags from Developer Story but I guess that's available from other parts of SO.

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    Also I used to check my rank in top tags from Developer Story but I guess that's available from other parts of SO It is not available from other official part of SO Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 12:40
  • 2
    :( @PanagiotisBougioukos
    – Amir_P
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 16:46
  • 1
    I agree although I haven't really used it (didn't feel confident just yet) although I did find a new platform I found a few weeks back which looks promising on the dev story and jobs front (its only for devs from what I can see not sure about Testers etc) thefullstack.network
    – MetaCoder
    Commented Jan 26, 2022 at 14:01

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