58

Some questions are obviously dead. For example, please see the timeline for not accessible in this context because it is 'Private'.

Community bot has bumped it nine times.

It will never (fsvo) have an accepted answer.

It could be that the question has a correct answer and the OP will come back to mark it as accepted after many years, but even if they do, was it worth displacing other questions from the home page so many times?

Could there be a limit, perhaps call it the Norwegian Blue Constant†, to the number of times that the Community Bot attempts to resurrect a question, please?

Monty Python Dead Parrot

46
  • 5
    I agree with the idea here, but it seems that the problem is more specific to the reason for the bump: none of the answers have been voted on. Sometimes, answers are just mediocre, not bad enough to warrant a downvote, but not good enough to deserve an upvote. Maybe we could limit the Norwegian Blue Constant to just this type of bump, rather than all bumps? For instance, if the question was being bumped because it had no answers, it should probably continue to be bumped. Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 18:30
  • 28
    Andrew, you seem to be a bit focused on the accept status - but accepted status doesn't play into this. Votes do - if you really want to stop seeing it, weigh in and vote on the answers if you can judge them. @CharlieArmstrong The question wouldn't get bumped if it has no answers - the point of Community bumping is to get people to vote on the existing zero-score answers.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 18:43
  • 5
    @Catija Hang on, do you mean that just up/downvoting any answer, where a question has only zero-score answers, would stop the Community user from bumping it? Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 18:50
  • 11
    I'm trying to find the exact rules - they're a bit complicated... Community primarily cares about zero-score answers. If at least one answer has a score of 1 or higher Community will not bump. I think if all answers are negatively scored, it won't bump either but I'm not certain. I... need to find the rules and I'm not sure they're perfectly documented.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 18:55
  • 3
    @Catija The question is, would it have that many views if Community stopped bumping it... 🤯 Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:24
  • 7
    @HereticMonkey I don't think stuff is on the active page for long enough for it to matter much, at least on SO. I don't think 10 bumps over 5+ years garnered it 10k views alone.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:25
  • 7
    @Catija There is plenty of poor and mediocre content here. Content that is useful usually finds its way to the users through search engines and sooner or later it will be upvoted. If it is not rated, that means it is just not as useful. We don't have to actively remove such questions, but bumping them is not really productive.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:31
  • 7
    @Catija Question title contains error message that is obviously searched a lot, possibly due its high visit count this question pops first in the Google search. Obviously this is something that is searched a lot, but found question is not giving people good answers. From that perspective I would say that this question is actively harmful.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:35
  • 30
    ... So... the post shouldn't exist then... and the bumping finally caused someone to look at it and decide, yeah, this should be closed? Sounds like the bumping did what it should have done. ;)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:37
  • 6
    @Catija I understand the joke... still there are millions of questions here that deserve to be closed, should we let bot bump all of them just to finally get rid of them. I wouldn't say that is desired feature ;)
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:39
  • 4
    I appreciate you taking it in the lighthearted way it was intended, @DalijaPrasnikar :) SO has a huge problem. A couple years ago, Shog and I were looking at the Roomba because someone asked a question about whether having comments really should prevent a question from being deleted (two comments or more will prevent a question with score of <1 from being deleted)... if we changed that rule just to stop considering comments, we'd delete over 1.5 million (unanswered) questions!
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:42
  • 7
    If we delete 1.8 million questions, we can celebrate reaching 20 million again
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:49
  • 5
    @DalijaPrasnikar I would agree - we actually looked at the percentage that get answered after a year - it's below 7% - so it's not as if those old questions generally attract much attention - and it's easy enough to "rescue" them from deletion by upvoting the question if it is actually a good question but remains unanswered. When Shog and I were discussing this, we wanted to create a sort of 10K tools page that would show "Questions that will be deleted in the next week" or something, so that people who were interested could review the questions and potentially "rescue" them before deletion.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 19:50
  • 4
    @Dharman RIP, Community's diamond :'(
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 21:19
  • 9
    The Monty Python Dead Parrot link alone was sufficient to secure my upvote.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 1:27

8 Answers 8

45

I'll wade in with an opinion.

First off, if you are going to request a change to a system or process, you need evidence. A single data point is better than no data point, but you haven't established a wide-spread issue. Any system will have edge-cases and it's unsurprising that you may have found one, but changing the system in response to a single question will just generate new edge-cases that may very well be just as undesirable. We need evidence of a wide-spread issue to justify the desired changes.

Second, the particular question you've chosen should be closed. The error message is extremely common/vague, which is why the view count might be so high, but there's not enough content in the question to offer a decent answer. Clearly there's a private variable in there and a couple people have taken the time to scour the large code blocks looking for it, but there's simply not enough signal to noise to verify any of the answers without spending a LOT of time. In that sense, the bump has done its job... 10,000 people have wasted time trying to read this question. Let's close it before another 10,000 people waste more time.


To Prove a Point

Let's look at the actual data. I'm writing this as I go, so I don't know where the evidence will lead as of this sentence.

To start, I ran the following query in SEDE which returns all posts that were bumped by the community in January, 2021:

SELECT 
  PostHistory.PostId
FROM
  PostHistory,
  PostHistoryTypes
WHERE
  PostHistory.PostHistoryTypeId = PostHistoryTypes.Id AND
  PostHistoryTypes.Name = 'CommunityBump' AND
  PostHistory.CreationDate > '2021-01-01' AND
  PostHistory.CreationDate < '2021-02-01'
GROUP BY
  PostHistory.PostId

This yielded 2,868 results. This just gives us a starting place to understand how many questions have been bumped.

The issue that's been raised is the number of times some of these posts get bumped, the "Norwegian Blue Constant". So let's check these questions and see how often they were bumped prior to January. As you can see, it's a pretty classic tail:

enter image description here

Of those questions:

  • 498 had more than 10 prior bumps

  • 314 had more than 20 prior bumps

  • 179 had more than 30 prior bumps

Let's zero in on the worst "offenders" next, posts which had been bumped 38 times each. There are 17 of them:

By my count, 13 of those questions have at least one upvote. One of them, the first in the list, has 9 upvotes and has been bumped 41 times. These appear to be some good questions that people want answered.

Whether or not it's worth it to bump 17 to save 13 is a value judgment, but to me personally it looks like the bump system is working for the most part, and I'm not convinced that it needs to be changed.

I would, of course, be open to an argument from the data showing that it's not working. I think there's a potentially interesting case to make that some questions get stuck in this cycle and never get the needed attention (answers, votes, whatever). However, I'd like to see evidence that this is the case, and the current post provides only a single data point.

Should Old Questions Take Precedence Over New?

The real heart of the OP's argument is, in my opinion:

was it worth displacing other questions from the home page so many times?

This is difficult to answer because it's a value judgment.

What deserves to be on the home page? Does a question upvoted 9 times but with no good answer yet belong there? I don't know.

But, the implied concern that the homepage is crammed with these questions seems unfounded to me. Over the course of a whole month, less than 200 questions with more than 30 prior bumps were promoted to the homepage. For a site that gets 5,700 questions per day, 200 questions over the course of a month does not seem outrageous to me.

Even if we were to say "10 bumps is the limit", it's still only 500 questions per month. This might grow into a bigger problem some day but, in my opinion, it's just not that big a deal currently.

10
  • 3
    Evidence: all those questions you click on on the front page that turn out to be from five years ago that have correct answers and an OP who was a one-question-wonder. Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 20:21
  • 2
    @AndrewMorton If the answers have an upvote, they don't get bumped - only questions with no upvoted answers get bumped like that.
    – Joe
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 20:54
  • 10
    It's perhaps worth pointing out that questions can only be bumped every 120 days now (it used to be every 30) so it's less likely that questions will be bumped so many times. :)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 21:36
  • Curious if you handled survivor bias? Why January 2021 and not, say, the month of September 2021 which is more recent and less likely for multi-bumped questions to have been closed/deleted since? Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 17:36
  • 1
    But of over 24000 bumps since the beginning of 2021, only 1325 resulted in an upvoted answer, and a handful in any other activity. The rest had nothing or just another bump. So it still seems like a complete waste of time. See SEDE. Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 5:15
  • 2
    @Charlieface that seems par of course since voting is all time low now. Also, remember that it has to be interesting enough for people to click, since it's competing with the 5.3k questions/day that gets asked. I would say that the bumped questions basically get drowned in activity. This tries to be another shot at it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 18:13
  • Great question @DanielWiddis. I did not do anything special in that regard. Would be interested to see more analysis in that regard. I chose January because I know that there's a delay between live data and SEDE data and I didn't feel like figuring out where the cutoff was, so I just picked a month that I knew would be available.
    – JDB
    Commented Oct 12, 2021 at 15:53
  • @Charlieface - I believe you are counting all bumps, including duplicate bumps for the same question, separately but then you are counting "successes" (where a bump attracted a vote) only once per question. This yields a very misleading ratio of bumps to votes. Maybe my SEDE query is flawed, but I'm seeing a success rate closer to 3:10 (a little north of 20%)
    – JDB
    Commented Oct 12, 2021 at 21:45
  • Never mind... I see the flaw in that SEDE query (in my last comment). I'm counting questions with answers that have a negative score as "attracted attention", but I see now that questions can still be bumped even if they have answers with a negative score so long as they have an answer with a score of "0".
    – JDB
    Commented Oct 12, 2021 at 21:55
  • @JDBstillremembersMonica I'm counting all bumps along with all activity and upvotes, and then I'm ordering all of it by date to see what was the next activity on each post after each bump. And in the vast majority of cases, the next activity is either nothing or another bump. Commented Oct 13, 2021 at 3:20
44

Community bumping is something that I think has been confusing to people for a while. There's questions on MSE about it from 2011 and 2013 and even back in 2016, Shog9 started a discussion to ask How can we make the purpose of Community "bumping" more obvious? - in it he states:

I was discussing this with my esteemed colleague jmac the other day, and it occurred to me that we never actually hint at what we want folks to do when these questions are bumped.

To be clear, the intent here is to resurface questions that someone has attempted to answer, but which haven't yet attracted any votes to either confirm the usefulness or decry the worthlessness of the answer(s) that've been posted. Q&A that, above all, needs feedback.

...But we don't really say this anywhere. And I strongly suspect that an awful lot of folks viewing these questions just shrug and move on.

And... well... I think that's maybe part of the struggle I'm seeing in your question - you're frustrated (understandably) that you keep seeing posts being repeatedly bumped by Community without really understanding why we do this. Now, unfortunately, while there were some proposed solutions, I don't think we ever actually followed through on this.

That leads to the question that some have posed in the comments on this question - even if the goal is to draw attention to the answers on possibly good questions that need someone to judge if the answers have value - is this tool doing what is intended? Would explaining it better help people know what to do when they see posts bumped by Community?

When does Community bump a post?

Before we look into what to do, let's see what triggers cause a bump in the first place - I've looked through the queries we run for this and this is how Community bumps (warning, my explanation comes from me attempting to read SQL, which I'm not perfectly good at, coupled with my general understanding in non-SQL terms of how the bumping works - I'll update it if I've gotten anything wrong):

First it checks the last activity date of open, non-deleted questions to see how recently Community has bumped the question (if ever). The question must be at least 30 days old and can not have been bumped (or otherwise modified) by Community in the last 120 days. This means that a question can only be bumped at most, three times per year.

From that, it selects the top 100 question by views that that meet the following requirements:

  • not recently active
  • not closed
  • not deleted
  • score of >=0
  • no accepted answer
  • is answered and the answer/s:
    • are not deleted
    • have a max score = 0 (meaning at least one answer must have a score of zero but no answers may have a score >0).

... and then it randomly selects the ones it's going to bump from these 100... In addition, there are other rules that are actually configurable per-site that control how many posts can be bumped per hour (currently 4 on SO; default is 1) and prevent additional bumps if a bumped post is still near the top of the front page (not set for SO, since the front page moves so quickly; disabled by default).

What should someone do if Community bumps a post?

What I'm getting out of this all is that Community bumps are... a sort of unofficial, poorly-explained review queue. They're a way we've come up with to get people to look at older content and see if it has value - so, knowing that, what should you do?

The first thing worth considering is whether you have the domain expertise to judge the questions and answers - if not, then it's probably best to leave it for someone else to review. Let's assume you do have that expertise:

  1. Look at the question first - is it a good question and not a duplicate?
    • Yes! (go to 2)
    • No! You have two options, you can do one or both of them:
      • Close - closed questions will not be bumped. (requires more than one person)
      • Downvote - negatively-scoring questions will not be bumped. (most effective if post has a score of 0)
  2. Look at the zero-score answers one at a time and repeat as necessary.
    • If you can confirm the answer is good and correct, upvote - if at least one answer has a score of >= 1, the question will not be bumped.
    • If you can confirm the answer is low quality or incorrect, downvote - if all answers have a score <0, the question will not be bumped.
    • If you are unsure, skip. Best not to vote if you can't adequately judge the answer.

I understand the frustration - I remember as a user on Movies & TV there was a question that got bumped every month for a long time... eventually I just downvoted the answer to get the bumping to stop... while that's not ideal, my hope is that if you (y'all) better understand the way Community bumps and why, it might reduce that frustration or at least give you a way to feel like you can control this situation - you have the power in many cases to make the bumping stop. Yes, the scope of SO is huge, so not everyone is an expert in every question - and that's OK.

Anyway, all of this kind of skims over the question of whether this behavior is correct and I can understand that maybe there's some value in rethinking it - maybe there's a better solution or maybe just knowing why the bumps are happening is enough. I certainly hope you've at least found this information helpful.


For fun, Glorfindel created this query to see the most bumped questions of all time (since we started tracking it).

15
  • 1
    A seasonal (winterbash) question list per site that brings these questions to the front for review
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 21:35
  • 7
    This is a great explanation, thanks Catija. I wonder, would it be possible to have a bumped question get a banner or a comment or something from ♦Community that would give a sentence or two like, "This older question and answer(s) need input to evaluate their value. Please vote on the question and/or answer if they are helpful!" and then make the whole comment a link to this post?
    – Joe
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 22:26
  • Excellent Explanation, Thanks... // A few Points: // 1- I miss a Definition for "not recently active". // 2- How often does the Script run...? (=> Exactly every 24h for example...?) // 3- I didn't "completely" understand the "it randomly selects the ones it's going to bump from these 100...", => for SO with Max=4/h, does it mean that 24x4=96 (<100) get bumped per Day (if How_Often=24h is correct)...?
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 1:15
  • 2
    @chivracq Thanks! 1. I don't have a specific definition but I think it's no activity in 30 days 2. Hourly, I think 3. I think it picks 4 out of the 100 available that hour. This likely doesn't apply to SO but if there's no eligible questions, nothing will be bumped.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 1:42
  • [1/2] Alright, Thanks @Catija, // 1. Would still need to define "Activity"... => Obviously: [Qt edited (by #OP or abd) + New Answer + Vote Change (on Qt or any Answer)], then not sure if [Answer edited (by Owner or abd) + Answer deleted + Comment added (on Qt or any Answer), Comment deleted (by Owner/Bot/Flag), Comment Upvote, new Views (> Threshold, depending on Tag(s) "Popularity" maybe)] still count for "Activity"... // 2. Hourly. OK. Hum, would still need to define "Top" (from "Top 100"), some other Criteria must be used, as from #JDS's Answer with 5,700/d, this probably...
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 3:00
  • [2/2] ... this probably generates way more than 100 Qt's eligible for Bump per day, even if @JDB's "200 per month" is a bit contradictory, as at 96 possible Bumps per day, the 200 would/could be reached in 2 days already... // Next Step will be for #JDB or any other data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1482416 Specialist to "predict" which Qt's will soon be bumped by #Community, ah-ah...! [=> #Challenge...!] :idea: // Mini-Edit for previous Post: "as from #JDS's Answer" = "as from #JDB's Answer"...
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 3:07
  • 1
    @chivracq I'm a bit confused? "Top" is literally the SQL function. It compiles a list with a sort you provide (views descending) and then presents the first 100 results. I think that's a pretty standard function?
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 3:44
  • @Catija, yep "Sort" is what I meant by "other Criteria", but Sort by what...? Oldest Qt (Creation Time)...?, possible, would explain the x38 Bumps, but Qt's from the last 5y would never get a "Chance", or oldest previous Bump...?, possible, but Qt's asked in 2021 will have to wait for 5y for their 1st Bump, etc... => There "must" be some other Criteria (for the Sort). // Interesting to know, if Script run at h_start gives a [1-100] Top, run again 1h later gives the same [5-100] Top (in the same Order) + 4 new Results... // But OK, never mind, your Original Explanation was excellent already...
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 4:50
  • 4
    "eventually I just downvoted the answer to get the bumping to stop..." did the answer deserve the downvote?
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 14:17
  • 1
    Some Sugg: If the "Purpose" of @Community's Bump is for (Advanced) Users in the Tag(s) to "take action", why not also "nag" the Asker with a Notif that their (old(er)) Qt has been bumped, asking them if they could still vote on any Answer(s) and maybe accept one, or even post (and accept) their own Answer...?
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 2:11
  • 1
    @chivracq AFAIK, SO does that on a email. It seems to be under the "Tips & Reminders" category of the emails sent by the site. meta.stackexchange.com/q/298906/213575
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 18:15
  • Oh!, Thanks @Braiam, then alright, good if that Func/Notif is already implemented, even if hum..., the Description for "Tips & Reminders" (=> "Timely advice and reminders to help you make the most of our features") sounds pretty vague to me... And I "hope" that Setting is Activated by Default, as I guess most Users whose Qt's get bumped will have joined SO [5-10] years ago, will still be at [1-10]-Rep and will have asked [1-3] Qt's and never came back to SO anymore since many years, like indeed is the Case for the Asker from #OP's Example...
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 23:35
  • "Close - closed questions will not be bumped. (requires more than one person)" - I think this is one of the problems that could be tackled. As I understand it, a question can be bumped, get 2 close votes, then next time it's bumped the close votes will have aged away. If I've got that right, a question might accumulate dozens of lifetime close votes, but remain on the site. That said, I'm not convinced the distinction between "close vote" and "down vote" is working well anyway.
    – IMSoP
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 8:52
  • 1
    @Braiam Honestly, I don't remember. But I'm generally cautious when making those choices and tend to lean towards up voting rather than downvoting - so I can only hope that I judged the answer fairly - the main difference was that, to that point, I didn't care enough to vote. Also, this was before there was a 120 day cooldown and on M&TV this was (if I remember correctly) practically the only post being bumped, so it'd show up every 30 days like clockwork. :)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Oct 12, 2021 at 14:12
  • @Catija interesting. Another way that the behavior can be tweaked is using roomba, since deleted posts are not bumped by default :D
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 12, 2021 at 17:36
19

The problem is that the Community bot clearly isn't very good at attracting attention. I have a modest proposal for an alternative.

In 8 years, the bot has bumped that question 9 times, each time failing to change the state of affairs.

On the other hand, after being mentioned just once in Meta, the answers have been upvoted and the question has been instantly closed.

The solution obviously is that the Community bot should start posting links to questions in Meta, rather than fruitlessly bumping them on the main site.

3
  • 6
    Don't forget about the Community bot to also add the comment "This question is discussed on meta".
    – Cristik
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 19:31
  • 1
    hm I would rather have it do that in a chat room to be honest, that's more the territory of bot output. But I like your train of thought nonetheless.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 11:30
  • Maybe including a banner for "this question has been bumped as a good candidate for some sort of interaction from the community" would be a good halfway point between silent bumping and bad-question-spam on Meta...
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 15:25
17

It would be nice if there was some mechanism (e.g. as a gold badge holder) to indicate that you've looked at a question and its answer, and decided that the answer isn't really good enough to merit an upvote, but not bad enough to merit a downvote. (e.g. something that's mostly correct but mixed with some misinformation, or a lazy answer.)

I'm more inclined to be generous with an upvote when that will mean there's an upvoted answer so the bot won't consider it for future bumping, but I still have standards.

I look at every Active question in [assembly] and some related lowish traffic tags which makes that possible, and there are definitely old uninteresting questions that I've seen get bumped multiple times, because there wasn't anything worth doing the previous time that would change that. Especially when the question is boring to me but not easy to justify an actual downvote, and not obviously a duplicate.

If I don't want to waste time answering an old useless question that's unlikely to have future value, and an existing answer doesn't deserve a vote either way, I'd still like to be able to indicate that I've checked out the situation and decided that until something changes (e.g. a new answer), the question doesn't need further attention from other users in the tag.

If there's an answer that could be improved, I comment on it. Or sometimes edit to fix it and then upvote. But if not, then just the comment won't directly stop it from getting bumped again later, so my effort in reading some old question and answer ended up being for nought.

Often it's some boring debugging question, but if the question is actually a [mcve] then a downvote on it isn't really warranted. And if the answer just answers that specific case without shedding any light on the bigger issue, that's unlikely to help anyone either, but I still don't want to downvote that.

I'm sometimes more ruthless with question downvotes for old useless debugging questions that clutter up search results when looking for a good duplicate of some common problem, but I don't downvote answers just for having answered such questions.


I don't remember any case where I was glad the bot had bumped a question. It was always just a chore to deal with the question so it wouldn't get bumped again.

If I actually run into a bad question while searching (usually for a duplicate), then I'll deal with it. If old bad questions stay out of the way entirely, so much the better. (I guess the concern is that they'll show up on google for people searching who aren't logged in or don't have the rep to do anything about it?)

3
  • 1
    SO has the statistics. They could basically split the visitors view into how many members with at least bronze/silver/gold badge have visited and seen a question/answer, especially with the new answer beacon. We could maybe use that to determine some kind of smarter bumping algorithm. Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 11:59
  • 2
    "correct but mixed with some misinformation" for the love of root, edit that misinformation out! "or a lazy answer" that's a reason to downvote!
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 9, 2021 at 14:23
  • 1
    Or even a scale of 5 (sort of super upvotes and super downvotes for extreme ends of the scale). Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 14:03
12

Should Community bot stop bumping dead questions?

Yes.

At least here on Stack Overflow, bumping is an exercise in futility.

Catija's answer explains what the purpose of bumping is and what we should do if we encounter such questions.

The problems with that is Stack Overflow has simply outgrown such a workflow. We cannot even successfully moderate new questions that come in on a daily basis, so old ones that are bumped by a bot will just be such a small blip on our radars that most of us will not notice and do anything substantial about.


One can say that if this is such a small blip then it certainly cannot hurt, but it does not do much good either.

In this example we have harmful question, with 10K views. Its title contains an error message that is obviously searched for a lot, and possibly due to its high visit count it pops up first in the Google search. Obviously this is something that is searched a lot, but the question is not giving people good answers, because otherwise from those 10K visitations one would expect at least a single upvote.

So this bad question has taken the spotlight and people coming here from search engines are landing on rather poor content, instead of maybe some other question with a similar problem that might have satisfactory upvoted answers.

If this question's high visibility is due to bot bumping, then such bumping is actively harmful. If its high visibility is due to people landing on it because of searched phrase, then it took really, really long time for someone to notice and handle this question. Also if any of the visitors had cast single upvote on any of the answers, community bot would stop bumping it and it could easily fly under the moderator's radar. Because of that I wouldn't say that bot is doing much good when it comes to bringing such questions to our attention.

We cannot say for sure whether bot is doing anything really harmful, but the evidence it is doing something good is also lacking.


We already have plenty to moderate here, and resurrecting old dead questions is not the best use of our time and resources. Casting a close vote without bringing the question to Meta is a vote wasted. Bringing every such question to the Meta is also not the best use of our time.

If the bot stops bumping them, what are we going to lose? I think not much.

6
  • 2
    "If the bot stops bumping them, what are we going to lose?" I'm not altogether sure that scrapping the one mechanism that exists on the site to resurface old questions which could benefit from attention would be a good change, even if it's not that effective overall. I also don't think you established a link between the Community bump and this particular question "taking the spotlight"; isn't it more likely that this question is popular because it has the right keywords, for instance, rather than that popularity coming from the bump alone?
    – zcoop98
    Commented Oct 10, 2021 at 20:33
  • The quesiton mentioned here basically falls into the low-quality-highly-visisted category. Maybe special solution can be found for these kind of questions like special review queues with the aim of eiter improving these questions or closing them. Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 6:49
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    @IMSoP Let's say that is correct, and that Community bot bumping didn't have negative effect, and that it didn't have anything to do with the question visibility. The question is, did it have positive effect? I would say it hasn't (yes, someone noticed it and it eventually lead to closing the question), but again how many questions will get handled due to bot bumping them? I would say ineligible number. Whether bumping is positive or negative, the sheer number of content here that needs some kind of attention is so huge and anything bot does is just useless.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 8:22
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    @Trilarion We don't need more question queues, we cannot even handle existing ones.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 8:23
  • @DalijaPrasnikar I know, but if we would have more man power available, such a review queue might be a very good idea. Just mentioning it. Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 8:31
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    @IMSoP FWIW, edited the answer and clarified my point. Yes, we cannot say bot is doing any harm, but we cannot say bot is doing any good either.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2021 at 9:11
8

I've thought about this problem for small sites (I have moderated one or another small site for a few years now), and I think on those small sites this is a bit of a different issue, but perhaps it helps here too.

When you have a site with few visitors, it's not uncommon to have a question that is legitimately a good one and doesn't get an answer just because nobody knows the answer to it on the site. On Sports we have some categories like this - questions on sports we just don't have any experts on. We get an answer from someone, but it's zero score because nobody knows enough to vote on the answer.

Those questions should be bumped - it's good that they're bumped, because maybe somebody will see them that is an expert, and vote on it, or answer it with a more useful answer! Without that, they'll never get any votes, or good answers (if the current one isn't a good answer). Yes, sure, probably OP is long gone, but what's the point of StackExchange? It's not just the "now", it's the future, and this helps that.

For something like StackOverflow, I suspect this feature doesn't work as well as it otherwise could, because the front page goes by so quickly. But, it also doesn't really have much impact, does it? If it's actually a "bad question", as odds are it is, then why is it open? That question's now closed, as it perhaps should have been. And moreover, there should be plenty of people to vote on those answers who do know about the topic - unless it's so obscure that you're back in the situation we're in on Sports, in which case bumping it is fine. Yes, even nine times. Why not? It's like once a quarter, and eventually somebody will do something about it - close it, vote on it, whatever.

And in the meanwhile, the question falls off the front page of busy tags in a few minutes, and even of "quiet" tags in a few days, and when it is there, it's a reminder to clean it up - one way or the other - unless it's truly a unicorn and does need a good answer or a rare expert to take a peek at it, in which case hopefully it gets that eventually.

If a particular question bugs you, and you think it's on topic and should be open and just doesn't have a good answer, perhaps consider posting in SO chat - maybe somebody will happen to know something about it, who knows!

5

Should Community bot stop bumping dead questions? Some questions are obviously dead ..

No, it shouldn't. We don't know which questions are obviously dead and which are not with certainty. The only questions that are truly dead are those that are removed from the site, every other question could in principle be answered or re-opened or edited or closed. If we don't remove them they aren't obviously dead.

We could remove more questions though if we think that more of the existing ones are dead (and not useful for anyone).

One guiding principle could be that every question should be treated equally regarding the minimal attention it gets. So if there are questions that somehow got ignored (they typically have a score of zero, no answers and only a low number of views) they really should be bumped until a minimal number of people have seen them. Beyond that I'm not sure how often to bump and how to distribute bumps. Closed questions maybe shouldn't be bumped and questions without positively scoring answers should more often be bumped and maybe a success rate of bumps should be defined and monitored and then bumps should be used in a way as to maximize this success rate. This seems to be beyond the scope of this question though. Simply stopping to bump existing questions beyond a certain threshold may or may not improve things. And it's not as if the question page is overrun by bumped questions.

3

I don't think we should change the way in which Community bot bumps old questions. More often than not, these bumps are actually useful for curators. The bumped questions need some kind of attention, whether it's closure, editing, voting, deleting or providing a new answer. The problem is that these bumps often are noticed by a small number of people. I have seen questions bumped 50 times before I laid my eyes on them.

The way to proceed is to take time and evaluate such questions. Think of it as the bot pleading to you to do something about the question. Getting mad at the bot for asking so many times is not the right solution.

1
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    We have plenty to curate without bot bumping old questions. There is just too many questions and answers deserving some attention. Bot is not doing anything remotely good here. Maybe on smaller sites.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2021 at 21:34

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