74

What happened?

Yesterday, my question got undeleted. And obviously, undeleting a question requires reopening votes, that this question would surely have received. This means the voters should have agreed that the question is NOT opinion-based or too broad.

While this all happened, my question had a downvote and yesterday the question got a month old. (It took an entire month to clear the queues and got reopened). Now "community" bot's everyday deletion criteria is

Question gets deleted, If the question is more than 30 days old, and ...

  1. has −1 or lower score
  2. has no answers
  3. is not locked

The question that was just reopened was redeleted because of this automated algorithm that runs every day on above-stated criteria. My reopened question might not even have got enough visibility after getting reopened altogether.

Therefore, I appeal to reopen my question back AND add another condition in the automated algorithm to not delete a reopened question at least for a certain time. There is no point in reopening a (deleted) question that would get deleted back in just one day without giving it enough visibility or waiting period (I had thought to add bounty after waiting for a day or two).

About my question

I had asked this question that was misunderstood as an inappropriate question and got deleted. I had appealed for reopening of my question by making an edit in question and clarifying the fact that my question is NOT opinion-based or too broad because my question describes the solutions that I am aware of/tried with pros and cons of each and I am looking for any other solution(s) that can be applied to the given (specific) problem.

Then just at around that same time, a meta thread discussed exactly the same topic about whether asking for solutions to a problem that has more than one possible solution too broad for SO. This thread response's accepted answer says, "No, it isn't". I made another edit to my question and included this thread's link as well.

Yesterday, it got undeleted and today bot redeleted it.

I am also open to discussion and clearing my understanding about what else can be improved in my question if it still is considered a misfit.

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  • 20
    Screenshot for <10k users
    – VLAZ
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:54
  • 22
    "And obviously, undeleting a question requires reopening votes..." No, it doesn't. Where did you get this impression? Closure and deletion are two separate actions.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:55
  • 5
    @CodyGray This says that it requires 5 votes to reopen a question. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:58
  • 11
    It says it requires 5 votes to undelete the post. It says nothing about reopening (which only requires 3 votes, just as closing requires 3 votes).
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:59
  • 3
    Is undeleting and reopening different? Wouldn't undeleting reopen the question? Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:00
  • 5
    That question is a design problem, not a programming problem. Did you consider checking if it would fit on SoftwareEngineering.se?
    – rene
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:00
  • 10
    No, a question can be either open or closed, deleted or undeleted. Those are different states. There are open+deleted questions, and and closed+non-deleted questions. Neither can receive answers, logically. But the deleted questions cannot receive comments and are generally hidden from view.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:01
  • 1
    Ohh!! Thanks for clarifying this. I didn't know that these all are different states. My bad. @rene sure I'll try asking once on SoftwareEngineering.se Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:04
  • 2
    @VLAZ This is off-topic but how are the comment replies indented like that? Is that a userscript?
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:05
  • 7
    You're unlucky with the timing. IIRC RemoveDeadQuestions runs once a week. You should have waited another day so it would had a window of 7 days to gather an upvote. But if no viewers find that question useful it will roomba again next week. Or it must get an answer in that period.
    – rene
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:05
  • 2
    The confusion arose when I received this notification yesterday that said my question is reopened and when I checked back, it was actually undeleted ! So I am still confused was my question never closed but deleted , and when it got undelete , the notification said it reopened ? :D Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:19
  • 54
    It was undeleted by you and two other users, then it was reopened by one of the undelete voters and a moderator, and then it was deleted by Community. So, yeah, I think there might be a reasonable feature request in here to consider recent activity (such as reopening) when running the Roomba. Otherwise, this makes for a pretty confusing user experience. (And a very pointless reopen.)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:22
  • 3
    @Karan You may check the Revisions of the post (or the Timeline for more details). Over the past two months, your question was closed, then deleted, then undeleted, then reopened, and then deleted again the next day by the Roomba.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:25
  • 1
    Thanks @CodyGray, yes if possible please consider that. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 9:29
  • 2
    Related MSE suggestion about the same problem: If a Roomba-deleted question gets undeleted, please make it exempt from its next runs
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 16, 2021 at 23:41

2 Answers 2

4

In order to avoid cases similar to this in the future, I suggest making the following changes to the roomba process and to the Community user's actions in general:

  • Reopening questions should reset the roomba timer. Questions that get reopened have often been improved, so the community needs to have time to reevaluate the question. I won't expand on this too much, I think the question has done a good job explaining why this is needed.

  • Questions should only roomba once. Only moderators and >20k users can undelete questions that have roobmad (the OP can cast one undelete vote, but the question still needs more undelete votes to be undeleted). If a question that has roombad has been undeleted, it's clear that either a moderator or two trusted users (three if the OP hasn't voted to undelete) don't think the question should be deleted. I think that it's in general a bad idea to have a robot undo the actions of humans who are trusted to know what they're doing.

  • The Community user should only protect a given question once. This isn't about roomba, but it's related to my point above so I thought I would put it here anyway. As I said above, I don't think robots should undo the actions of humans who are trusted to know what they're doing. This applies to deletion, but also to protection (and to any other action, but deletion and protection are the only ones I could think of that apply to the Community user). This isn't as important as for deletion since protected questions are often popular and will often eventually get unprotected manually anyway, but I still think it's counter-productive to have the Community user undo the actions of a trusted human.

3
  • I agree with all of this except the part about only protecting a question once: the situation that resulted in a question being auto-protected could reoccur, and protection isn't nearly as problematic as incorrect deletion.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Nov 24, 2020 at 12:11
  • 1
    @RyanM I agree that protection isn't very problematic, but if a moderator or high-reputation user manually unprotected it there is usually a reason. In most cases the question will never get unprotected, but in the rare cases where a trusted human decides that a question shouldn't be protected I don't think a robot should be able to undo that. Commented Nov 24, 2020 at 13:10
  • 1
    @RyanM I'd say automatic re-protection causes more problems than it's worth. On the global meta, the past contest posts have caused protracted protect/unprotect wars between Community and users.
    – gparyani
    Commented Apr 9, 2023 at 11:51
-31

In my opinion this issue can easily be solved by the developers if they add a new rule to the roomba script, namely:

Any activity on a question or its answers should reset the roomba timer

This includes answers, comments, edits, upvotes, downvotes, close-reopen, delete-undelete votes, etc.

The original purpose was to remove "dead-end" questions, if it's still active, it should not be deleted.

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  • 16
    Downvotes, delete and close votes reset the roomba timer? That doesn't seem effective. Neither comments resetting the timer, but that I could at least understand.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:12
  • 41
    Any reason to include any activity? It seems like only actions indicating positive reactions – e.g. reopen, upvote – should make content eligible for preservation. Having negative actions count seems counterproductive. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:16
  • 28
    At least we can agree that users casting undelete votes should reset roomba's timer. Totally. /s
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:18
  • @MisterMiyagi: That could make sense, but it's not like there is a real hurry to delete the question either. The vast majority of questions on SO quickly end up in a "dead" state, with few if any interactions after the first hours.
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:47
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    @yivi: Why the /s? This is exactly the scenario that happened to OP, his question got undeleted, but then roomda deleted it again within the day.
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:50
  • 5
    Yeah, I guess you are right if you see it that way. But with the exception of the vote that actually undeletes a question, all the other undelete votes happen to be in a question where roomba is irrelevant, since the question is already deleted. Using the undelete vote as a reference to reset the timer doesn't seem practical. Simply: if a question was recently undeleted, it could have its "timer" reset, as it is. Not sure I find it entirely practical either. Any question that was recently undeleted should get some action soonish to or go back to torpor.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:56
  • @yivi: Yes that seems simpler
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:57
  • 13
    undelete and reopen. These 2 activities should be enough
    – Sagar V
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 7:08
  • The criteria already includes "has no answers", so answers wouldn't factor into this (unless it was posted and deleted, but that should be rare enough to ignore). "It received no positive interaction for 30 days and someone downvoted it" seems like a good enough reason to delete it, regardless of when the downvote came. I might add a week (but probably not reset it entirely) after a comment or closure / edit to give OP or others a chance to edit / give others a chance to upvote or answer. Partial closure or deletion votes is unlikely to lead to any action that could save the question. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 9:36
  • @user000001 I interpret "casting undelete votes" to mean the question is not yet undeleted. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 9:39
  • 1
    @BernhardBarker: True, only the final undelete vote matters. My idea was that as long as anybody is still interested in the question, it should not be auto-deleted yet. It doesn't escape the roomba, just borrows some time, which could potentially save it. Regarding the exception for downvotes, I am not against it, just not convinced that it is strictly necessary. Now that people have already voted though, it wouldn't be fair for me to alter the message of this post.
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 10:26
  • 1
    @yivi: It's a first approximation. Feel free to write a more refined answer. As is, it still would be a better change than not changing it.
    – Joshua
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 18:45
  • 2
    No @Joshua, it would be worse. To cover for a an edge case we would be making roomba much less effective. Better not change it than change it like this. I’m not particularly convinced about the need for a change. It’s an edge case, and can be managed by the user (flagging, reposting, etc).
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 19:10
  • 1
    @yivi: Flagging will not help, unless the moderator upvotes the post above zero, or locks it. Reposting counts against the user's question limit.
    – user000001
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 22:40
  • 2
    And since you are worried about that edge case, you need to consider that your proposal of making close-delete-down votes extend the question shelf life will probably expose the question to more downvotes, which might impact users that are close to the question ban threshold.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 6:39

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