-28

There is not a week that goes by that I do not see a question that was closed for "This question needs details or clarity" and yet the question is perfectly clear to me. My hypothesis is that this happens mainly because (perhaps overzealous) reviewers see a question they know little or nothing about, and assume that because they don't understand the topic that the question requires "details or clarity."

For now, I will give just one example:   This question is tagged and . To anyone who has knowledge of those two packages, this question is perfectly clear.

Personally, when reviewing questions, I try to be very careful not to comment or vote on topics about which I do not have some significant expertise.

It seems to me that only people with a strong knowledge of a topic are qualified to say whether or not a question really does require additional details or clarity.

My question here is whether we can come up with a way to discourage those with little knowledge of a topic from voting to close questions on that topic?

  • Perhaps there should be an easy way to start a discussion with those who voted to close. This could be a way to get clarity about which part of the question they don't understand.
  • Alternatively, there should be an easy way (for both the questioner and other reviewers) to send a message to the closers, requesting that the question be re-opened to allow those with the required expertise to decide if the question actually requires details and clarity.
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  • 22
    The question example you linked is just a requirement dump. No research effort, no attempt, just "I need X".
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:21
  • 16
    Also, the assertion that "This question needs details or clarity" is chosen because of ignorance is just plain ignorant.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:27
  • 24
    So what you're saying is because you're experienced and disagree, the close voters are automatically inexperienced and incapable of judging clarity? You're not making a good case here, aside showing that you're more than ready to call the people involved incompetent because they have a different perception of the question Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:36
  • 1
    Also, you can start a chatroom with any of the people involved if you need a clarification, in case the several other people agreeing with the closure here on meta isn't good enough for you. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:39
  • 8
    " I specifically stated that it was merely a hypothesis that the closers are unfamiliar with topic" - So? You're directly dragging in their qualifications with your hypothesis, regardless of what fancy words you wrap it in. Implying it and hiding it by calling it a hypothesis doesn't make it any less of a user argument rather than a factual argument. And again, chat. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:43
  • 13
    It's here - it's Meta. If nothing else, I'm hoping you can see what's unclear to me about this. And yes, I've answered questions using libraries that I don't normally use (being a Java developer, with Swing or AWT) because the OP bothered to include their code as a part of their question. In this case, because I don't see code, and I see requirements, it becomes a pretty typical close-vote pattern, something which I wouldn't disagree with.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:43
  • 2
    As far as I understand "effort" has never been a requirement for posting a Question.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:44
  • 15
    Hi, I’m one of the close voters! I voted to close when the question was posted, hours before any answers were posted. I voted to close because it’s a zero-effort question, with no [mcve]. I could (maybe should) have left a comment, but these close actions are here for a reason. Have you read the guidance that is linked when it’s closed? (In addition, the answer is taken directly from the library examples.)
    – Alex
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:02
  • 6
    I think the answer to what OP could have done is in the guidance you see when asking a question “1. Summarize the problem; 2. Describe what you’ve tried; 3. Show some code”. That’s the minimum. It’s the reason the mcve shortcut exists
    – Alex
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:26
  • 8
    @Alex I think you've misunderstood what an mcve is for. That applies to questions with code that has a bug, or where the code is not doing what the OP wants. This is definitely not the case here; it's a straight up "how to" question. While showing code can help clarify what the OP wants, it's by no means a minimum requirement.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:32
  • 4
    I think it still applies, while it is more frequently in the context of debugging, a mcve that gets to the point where OP is stuck and cannot get past would be appropriate. To call it not an mcve would be needlessly confusing, IMO
    – Alex
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:37
  • 3
    "reviewers see a question they know little or nothing about" - This might be true. However, as a reviewer I don't have to know very much about a topic, to understand what a question is asking. I typically, when I am unfamiliar with a topic, perform some significant research on the subject. If I walk away from that research not understanding what the author is talking about I consider that question not to be clear and vote accordingly. I would argue that a question that was asked, and answered within 49 minutes and that answer accepted, is indeed not actually "unclear". Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 23:13
  • 7
    Of course, I agree that the question was literally nothing more than a requirement dump, and should be closed. At a minimum, I would have wanted to see the author's attempt to solve their problem. If the code to generate the image at a minimum was supplied I would vote to reopen. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 23:15
  • 7
    I still want to see what the asker tried though, because that try gives a baseline I can start an answer around without having to first write the Book of Genesis. "In the beginning was the power cable. Hast thou plugged it in?" Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 0:47
  • 11
    @DanielGoldfarb welcome to MSO! Presumptions about the knowledge level of others on the site usually does not get you too far in winning folks over to your position. If you have a concern about a closure in the future, starting off by assuming that the voters are simply ignorant is going to be a non-starter as much as it was here. I recommend an approach along the lines of "I feel this was closed unfairly based on X, Y, Z site rules [links to meta, links to help center], am I mistaken?"
    – ggorlen
    Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 4:47

3 Answers 3

21

The very example you quote is literally just a picture.

You don't know if the OP:

  • Found this image somewhere on the Internet
  • Got this image from someone, including a professor or classmate
  • Generated this image with code that they aren't in control of (a constraint to not do too much to change the code)
  • Generated this image with code that they are in control of

...and yet in all examples, the common denominator of "We need details" remains the same.

We need to see how this was generated to begin with.

An expert could write this on their own and generate something close to what the OP has, and they might be right with what they put together. But if the OP doesn't actually do the due diligence to bring what it is they've tried to the table, then in general, we're left guessing.

Closing it as "needing details or clarity" is the right choice for questions like this. If you need help getting a specific kind of output, we want to see what the inputs are or what they would be.

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  • 4
    The example question is not just a picture. It asks about a software package that creates such pictures, and sepcifically indicates that the image comes from that software package. They are simply asking how to add a certain element to that image which was generated from the software package, and anyone familiar with the package will know the answer. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:30
  • 18
    Gonna say out loud @DanielGoldfarb that there are far more experts of the Stack Exchange network in general rather than experts in that specific software stack. The only thing we can standardize on is, "If you have a question about something code-related, please provide the code you have on-hand that has the issue you're facing so someone can also run that code locally and give you a solution." If the OP can't do that, then the question gets closed until they can add that in, which is precisely what's happened here.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:39
  • 1
    I agree, definitely if the OP is having a problem with their code, then they should post their code. In the example given, however, the OP is only asking if a feature exists in the package to do what they have shown in the image. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 21:47
  • 2
    This is as worse3,as it is seeking for recomenadation
    – nbk
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:15
  • 1
    As someone who has had my questions closed for needing detail, it's really off-putting when it happens but it's nice to know people are putting this much discussion into the whole thing, because at least it's a semi-informed process. People aren't robots of course they are going to have different perspectives on what to close and why, doesn't mean they're wrong - but it is off-putting because you see everyone else asking the same types of questions answers and it's difficult to see the difference. I've just deleted questions and left in the past which is an option, or just add clarity and see!
    – Dan Chase
    Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 0:40
  • @DanChase - While “deleting your question and going home” is certainly an option you have, it’s not the best solution, and will ultimately result in you being question banned. Commented Jul 12, 2021 at 0:00
  • @SecurityHound I'd imagine that someone who would habitually delete their questions, aren't really getting use of the site anyway. That said, to me, banning sounds pretty natural to prevent the constant cleanup a person like that would need. But sometimes I ask a question, and realize it just wasn't worth it. What's the alternative to deleting the question, at that point?
    – Dan Chase
    Commented Jul 12, 2021 at 22:09
4

The example question has an issue common to GUI/graphical library questions.

It's a screenshot without code or data to reproduce, meaning it doesn't have an MRE. Under normal circumstances I'm strongly inclined to close such questions. It might be clear to an expert, but it also leaves readers without any workable code.

Another issue is that you can't search an image. Are all the keywords in the body of the post enough to provide search hits? Because there isn't any code, meaning someone searching for use of a precise library function is probably not going to find the question.

Lastly, since it's a graphical library tag, I'd trust a gold badge holder or significant contributor if he guarantees in the comments all of the above criteria are met sufficiently. (Because you need to factor in a lot of criteria to judge if an image and brief description are enough to make a good question.)

That's what "needs details or clarity" means in this case.

5
  • "Another issue is that you can't search an image." - The image in the question is just demonstration of the text. It needn't to be searchable. "Are all the keywords in the body of the post enough to provide search hits?" - I am not expert in the question's topic, but "separate line" could be a good keyword to search. Or it could be edited to a "straight line". Anywhere, lacking of the keywords for search is never a reason for closing the question. You could edit the question and add needed "keywords".... assuming they could be deduced from the question post. And this seems to be a problem.
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 8:30
  • @Tsyvarev I don't agree because if a screenshot was posted with the text: "How to do this" and the word "square" or "triangle" that would not be sufficient. It's mainly the OP's job to edit the question so it contains all the necessary info, not the communities job. Besides "separate line" as you call it, will have a named library function xxx so the question should be worded "separate line using library function xxx" or whatever the technical term for a line is in that case that's sufficiently unambiguous to have a meaningful proper name.
    – bad_coder
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 8:37
  • @Tsyvarev otherwise graphic library tags would be full of questions containing 1 screenshot together with 2 words "how to?" (That just wouldn't be functional).
    – bad_coder
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 8:39
  • I don't mean that the image can replace the text. '... a screenshot was posted with the text: "How to do this"' - This is not quite true. The question is "Is there any way to add separate lines to an mplfinance plot, like the image below, to show how a trade went?" Actually, one could interpret it as specifying both the library (mplfinance) and the function (plot). Don't you think that with such interpretation the question is pretty clear without any image? (Or the image just demonstrates that "separate line" is actually a "straight line".)
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 8:53
  • @Tsyvarev I would have left the question open for the reason there are only 63 questions on the tag and this specific line question hasn't been asked before. In that sense it's not an Nth question. My first impression was "Exactly what kind of trend line are we talking about?" and that lack of detail put together with all other elements is on average a strong indication of an incomplete question. In this case, I think the question should be reopened and upvoted.
    – bad_coder
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 9:31
-18

I'm the one who posted the question. To me, it was a simple question I could not figure out after 3 hours of coding and Googling stuff. I think you should consider that not everyone's mother tongue is English, and not everyone can read and understand docs.

The reason why I posted a question like that was to leave something behind for someone else who'd be in my shoes; Not as experienced, they ask for help and unable to find the answer.

Sometimes, the question is really this simple. Adding my failed trials with scatter plots would not have helped at all. Absolutely anyone who understands this topic can infer that I asked a straightforward question.

I'd be happy to discuss how I can make it better, and your thoughts on why it was bad enough to be closed in about two hours. I got lucky someone answered me before that.

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    Why didn't you include any way for any other passer-by to be able to generate the same state locally on their machine so that you could've invited a lot more help? That's literally the only question I have.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:27
  • 1
    @Makoto because it's extremely easy to do so. Anyone who'd be looking this up already knows how to generate random numbers and put them into dicts, into a chart. And there are tons of examples for doing that on SO, but none for this type of line. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:31
  • 19
    If it’s so easy to do, and you’d already done it, why not include it?
    – Alex
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:33
  • 19
    If it was so simple to do, why couldn't you provide it? (Same question as before; the answer I heard was "I thought it was trivial" but that's not a response to avoid including source to a problem you want us to solve.) Not everyone is expert in certain technologies, and someone may have a passing knowledge of Python and the ability to debug problems or do some research as opposed to having to generate this from scratch on their own.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:33
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    If you edit your question on main to just add a couple of lines showing how you generated the plot (without the straight line), and indicate where you want the straight line to be drawn, I think your question will likely get reopened. Use this question as an example of how you can edit your own question. Note how the other question doesn't show the failed attempts at solving the problem, which you're right, would not be helpful to anyone.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 22:47
  • @M.H.Tajaddini - To cigien's point see this comment. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 23:16
  • 1
    @M.H.Tajaddini Thank you for posting here. I totally get where you are coming from, which is why I posted this question on SO Meta. Admittedly I should not have accused others of not having enough knowledge to say that the question needed clarity; sorry if I offended anyone's ego. Imho oftentimes questions are close way too fast, which can be very disconcerting for new posters, but apparently I am in the minority with that opinion. Anyway, thank you very much for posting here. Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 23:50
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    "sorry if I offended anyone's ego" Well that's a backhanded apology if there ever was one.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 0:04
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    Never underestimate the social importance of showing your work/research. Not only does it make for questions that are more useful to the askers who follow you (it will contain keywords that'll show up in web searches and often makes it easier to draw a connection between the question and its answers), if you show no work there's often no way to separate the hours you've sunk into the project from the zero effort of some lazy punk who's outsourcing their homework. Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 0:35
  • 3
    I think @user4581301 has it, if a moderator doesn't like the question based on their interpretations, isn't that the design? If it was really a rules-based-approach, SO could just automatically delete or block the post and not even have moderators, but then there's no "community", which implies a social contract to extract the benefits from. Yes, you need to do/say things and do things to ensure popularity, but nearly every construct in society has this, Lord of the Flies hierarchy.
    – Dan Chase
    Commented Jul 10, 2021 at 0:53
  • Just a thought from a non-expert: The question already contains the words which could denote the library (mplfinance) and the function (plot ): "Is there any way to add separate lines to an mplfinance plot, like the image below, to show how a trade went?" With such interpretation, the question seems to have a lot of sense and perfectly corresponds to its answer. Probably, some tiny edit could transform this "could denote" into "obviously, it is" even for non-experts. @DanielGoldfarb: If the interpretation above correlates with yours one, could you make such edit?
    – Tsyvarev
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 9:08

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