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There is a dispute on whether or not this regex question should be closed as a duplicate.

My position is that the question is a duplicate. Both of the techniques posted as answers are found in the single answer posted by Wiktor at Regex match numbers not followed by a hyphen which I used when I voted to close. The OP didn't need the whole pattern to be supplied, only a fix for the end portion of the pattern.

The page has been: (Timeline)

  1. Answered by @thefourthbird

  2. Hammered by @WiktorStribiżew

  3. UnHammered by @thefourthbird

  4. Answered by @anubhava

  5. Then two close votes are invalidated (I don't know how to read that part of the timeline)

  6. Then I voted to close and requested a in SOCVR saying:

    exact duplicate stackoverflow.com/q/66063316/2943403 (...okay, replace the hyphen with an opening parenthesis, otherwise identical.

  7. Hammered by @tripleee

  8. Unhammered by @anubhava

  9. Then there is another review item listed (which I don't know how to read)

  10. Closed as a duplicate by @Dharman, @TylerH, @Makyen♦

  11. @Makyen♦ edited the dupe list and said:

    IMO, this is a duplicate. The issue here is the same as the issue and solutions in the duplicates which have been used: backtracking permitting the match to backtrack a single character in order to not match a negative look-ahead. If we permit having individual questions for every single possible different character, character class, or group which might encounter the identical issue, then there are an infinite number of possible questions which are all about the same issue and which all share the same solutions. Doing that would seriously fragment where good answers can be found.

  12. Then there was a split decision from the Reopen Review Queue (if I read that correctly) resulting in the page being re-opened.

  13. Then @Makyen♦ re-hammered, adjusted the dupe list, and locked the page.

So where do we go from here? It seems to me that some camps want to ensure that only snowflake to snowflake identical questions are closed as duplicates. Whereas other volunteers want to see new pages closed where pre-existing advice can be applied to a new similar scenario.

I am in the latter camp. Highly skilled regex veterans are answering the same kinds of questions using the same techniques over and over. Stack Overflow is not meant to be a point farm that ignores old posts -- we should be endeavoring to honor past contributions by pointing new researchers to old questions when appropriate. We also need answerers to search the site just like we expect askers to search the site. With Stack Overflow already housing millions of pages, it is more likely than not that a new question is a duplicate -- certainly questions asking for narrow/basic techniques.

Should regex get special treatment because there are a lot of users who 1. Are new to regex, 2. Find regex impossibly mystifying 3. Don't want to spend the time to learn regex? I say: no special treatment. We should all want developers to be on a growth trajectory. We want researchers to immerse themselves in the supremely generous pool of knowledge that has been curated for over a decade by some very, very smart folks.

So where do we go from here? Are we going to try to condense and funnel the wisdom here by closing duplicates or are we going to answer every question that is even slightly different by a character or two and see a lot less cohesion in the content?

Should we be encouraging people to answer duplicates and then hammer the page closed so that we have more diverse "sign posts" to help direct pages? I can do that, but it doesn't feel "right". I find myself extremely irritated by the lack of official guidance on where Stack Overflow is meant to be headed. I am not sure that I am doing the "right thing".

And before you downvote this page and close it for asking too many questions, assume that I am only asking what should happen on this one specific page and why you think so.

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    Not sure a diamond moderator should be involved in the closing (Steps #9, and #12); especially since we need them to be impartial for the resulting fallout; but here we are. There's a difference in whether the beginners will see the "duplicate" as having their answer. That's just as bad if they can't "see their answer" in the canonical duplicate target. My criteria would be: Can a user who is not an expert in regex get their answer from the canonical dupe? If not, leave this one open. Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 23:34
  • 17
    @GeorgeStocker A diamond moderator who is an expert on regex cannot have an opinion on a regex question?
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 23:36
  • 14
    @10Rep Moderators should stay out of the fray when it's a contested close and re-open; they should step in to mediate; but not to take a side. I say this as a (former) elected community moderator who has both not taken a side and taken a side in these situations. Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 23:36
  • 39
    @GeorgeStocker The system is explicitly designed such that moderators are supposed to be involved in contested duplicate closures. A "Contested closed as duplicate (auto)" flag was raised by the Community user prior to my involvement in the question. I'd note that I handled this one because I am ... quite familiar with regular expressions (other people consider me to be an expert), even though I choose to not substantially contribute to the regex tag.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 23:46
  • 11
    Admittedly, what I should have done at #9 was to lock the post for a time. It was, however, my hope at the time that a couple of comments would be sufficient to calm the situation down, rather than having to resort to locking the post for a period of time. Reclosing it and locking it (#12) returned it to the state it was at the time I originally should have locked it.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 23:51
  • 7
    @GeorgeStocker With respect to people who are not experts in regex, that demographic can be assumed to have zero knowledge of regex. Anyone who swims in the regex tag pool knows full-well that a portion of the questions are asked by people who don't even know what a quantifier is. I don't think this is going to be a sustainable metric for decided what is and is not a duplicate. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 0:09
  • 18
    The point of duplicates isn't "to honor past contributions" (although it does also do that). The intent of duplicates is to make it easier for future researchers to find high-quality answers by keeping answers to effectively duplicate questions in one place, with signposts (duplicate questions) pointing to the question(s) on which those answers exist.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 0:12
  • 4
    In more recent cases I have hammered but left a comment(s) as a guide to the modifications to make. I guess because whilst I can see the answer in the duplicate I suspect it is a big jump for the OP e.g. to learn enough about css to write the appropriate selectors to solve a matching problem.
    – QHarr
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 0:22
  • 10
    I always thought that the end of the species was going to be brought on by a regex. Badly written or otherwise. I failed to imagine that The End ultimate cause was going to be the Regex Wars stemming from a few trying to harvest unicorn points from poor regex questions.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 6:54
  • 5
    FWIW, the pattern "1. Are new to regex, 2. Find regex impossibly mystifying 3. Don't want to spend the time to learn regex?" also occurs in other tags – Python for data science / ML being one example. So these issues are very interesting also for other tags that are just not as bad as regex yet. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 9:34
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    @mickmackusa, I browse a lot on SO, this tag is very useful for me. I would like to give suggestion, As SO provides free will to mark any question duplicate but during the conflict situations it is better to post in the comment section of the answerer, and let the people from otherside also provide there views on the same, instead of going directly for metapost/moderators. I cant imagine camping kind of situation on SO when we have a very proactive moderators. We all are part of same boat and working for the betterment of SO. We are here to share knowledge and help each other to grow together.
    – Bajajsahab
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 12:13
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    has it been mentioned here, I know it has in the past, to improve tooling for finding duplicates? I often see duplicates but cannot find them within 5 minutes and after that I give up. Part of this is also about finding the "right" duplicate as I don't want to signpost accepted answers with glaring flaws IMO / partial dupes that only have part of what the user will actually need (problem where question is actually more than 1 question in order to solve).
    – QHarr
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 13:46
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    @GeorgeStocker two things: 1. we have litigated to death whether moderators should be withholding their close vote capabilities and the answer is "no". I'm curious why after stepping down from moderator you're now resurfacing to take a series of positions opposite of how you, mods, and the site operated the whole time you were one? 2. I'm not a regex expert and I felt it was clearly a duplicate. OP has to make the following critical thinking step to have their answer: replace ) in the target post's solution with - (I am using the term 'critical' charitably here).
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 14:37
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    @GeorgeStocker Other users can close/reopen posts closed/reopened by mods or even employees. There's nothing special about this closure; Makyen was the 3rd vote of 3 necessary to close the post. Mods have always set the state of posts to what they deem most appropriate and then locked during a dispute, which is what this is, and how Makyen ultimately left it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 14:43
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    @mickmackusa Because the general consensus seems to be that consistently answering and closing is considered abusing your gold badge privilege. IIRC, there have been a few/several Metas starting with people complaining about gold badge holders abusing their ability to unilaterally close as duplicate. IIRC, the gist of the consensus is that it's OK if answering and then closing happens from time to time (e.g. mistake; realizing after answering that it's a duplicate, occasionally), but consistently answering and closing is something which people tend to view as abuse.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 5, 2021 at 3:40

5 Answers 5

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How should this specific regex question close-reopen war end?

It ended. Period.

It would be great if experts would be able to sort it out, but since they were not, a moderator stepped in and solved the issue in the best possible manner, also leaving an appropriate comment that fully explains why the question is a duplicate.

End of story.

For the future, I wish that experts contributing in any tag would close duplicates (when they are actually duplicates) more, not less. Or at least, that they don't reopen obvious duplicates for whatever reason.

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    It is certainly over for 7 days until Mak unlocks the page again, then who knows. I kind of hoped thefourthbird and anubhava would have defended their actions on this page. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 8:21
  • 1
    @mickmackusa I would certainly hope that others involved would get the hint and just drop it.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 8:53
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    @mickmackusa meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/405490/… Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 9:00
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    "I wish that experts contributing in any tag would close duplicates more, not less. Or at least, that they don't reopen obvious duplicates for whatever reason." Yes and No. Yes, reopening obvious (=because these questions get asked again and again, several times a week) duplicates should not happen and No, "closing duplicates more" misses the point, we only need to close those that are eligible. I outlined a system here (it needs adjusting a bit since I learnt quite a bunch of valuable opinions that are worthy of note, I will keep an eye). Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 11:20
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    @WiktorStribiżew I wasn't clear enough when I said closing more. Questions should be closed as duplicates when they are actually duplicates. I have seen way to many experts answering obvious duplicates, instead of closing them. Even gold badge holders.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 11:41
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    @DalijaPrasnikar I understand, I just felt you wanted more "aggressive" closing, and this is something moderators start being worried about (as far as I understood, this can even cause a suspension). Thus, right, only when they are actually duplicates, meaning that the close reason is enough to solve the currently declared (or implied) issue. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 11:49
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    @DalijaPrasnikar "Even gold badge holders" that's how some users got their gold badges...
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 19:50
  • @VLAZ Actually, I am not surprised... But, I would expect that at some point, one would stop doing that.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 19:53
26

The underlying issue is that there are two competing schools of thought among Stack Overflow users:

  • the "teach a man to fish" school, who believe that a problem can be solved based on existing solutions to similar problems
  • the "give a man a fish" school, who believe that every unique problem deserves a unique solution

I normally fall into the first camp, but for regular expressions (and only regular expressions) I can endorse the second camp's viewpoint. To quote an old aphorism:

Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.

Regular expressions are an incredibly powerful tool with a correspondingly complex, opaque, and often apparently arbitrary grammar that is confusing even to veteran software developers. They're also something that, unless you do a lot of text manipulation, you generally write once in a blue moon - so even if you want to be competent and remember how they're structured, you generally don't get the opportunity.

Thus, given how complex regexes can be in order to fulfil apparently simple requirements, that the presence or absence of a single character can change their meaning so massively, and that so few people are truly proficient in them, is it any surprise that people aren't able and/or willing to peruse existing regex questions in search of one that appears similar to theirs - but may differ in a single aspect that means the resultant answers will be completely different to the regex that the searcher actually needs?

In short, it's easy to say that people should learn how to fish; but with regex, it's kinda like you only need to catch the fish once a year, plus your technique for doing so has to be perfect. How many people are likely to want to learn that, and how many will be able to remember it next year?

Hence, I see regex questions as something of a unicorn on SO. They're identical to other programming questions in that they're (often trivially) answerable once you understand all the underlying concepts, but the reality is that few people have the time or inclination to learn said concepts; so unlike most other aspects of programming, I can understand and excuse a lack of knowledge and understanding in the particular case of regex.

I foresee that the tension between these schools of thought will continue in the regex tag because of its special nature, and unfortunately I don't have any good suggestions on how to address this tension. All I can hope is that explaining what makes this tag different can serve as a point for the proponents of each school of thought to attempt to meet each other somewhere around the middle.

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    There is a lot of problems with regex questions. One of them is that many don't need to be regex questions. "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems." is very, very apt. Some user comes up against a requirement like "I am getting 123-456, I need 123 and 456 separately". They decide that since this is text, and regex is about text, that obviously the solution is a regex. Then they post a question on SO about how to do that. Yet, basic string manipulation can also solve this problem.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 19:48
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    My issue with your stance is that we don't want Stack Overflow to be treated as a "fish monger". We are not a help desk or collection of regex writing slaves who provide professional regex pattern construction for free. For people who only write a regex pattern once per year and/or don't want to learn regular expressions, these people should PAY a developer to write their code for them instead of coming to SO. I am seeing more and more questions saying "I've searched but found nothing". Meaning they didn't find something to copy-pasta. The bar on developer effort needs to be raised. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 20:49
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    @mickmackusa you're being generous there. I keep seeing questions that are just "I need this". That's it. No attempt, no research, and often no evidence of basic understanding of their own problem. I don't only mean no understanding of regex itself. There was a question today where somebody was asking for a regex for 1 to 30...because they needed validation...and had decided to write a custom validator. Walking backwards - a custom validator is one that actually uses code, where there is no need to even have a regex. But they already had out of the box validation. Including number validators
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 21:01
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    I hate the excuse that regexes are too cryptic for people to bother learning them. It’s really not hard to learn them; there aren’t that many constructs. It’s mostly ⟨set of characters⟩⟨quantifier⟩⟨qualifier⟩, repeated. A quick look at a regex cheatsheet and keeping the structure in mind would already prevent most of those “I need to extract number from X123Y” questions. Why is this, for example, different from “How to iterate array in X language?” questions? “I’ve searched but found nothing” — I wouldn’t expect to find much either when searching for patterns that are far too specific. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 21:40
  • 2
    So.. we have found your weakness: regex ;) I agree with @SebastianSimon here. There's nothing magical about regex that isn't also magical about other types of code. In my opinion, multithreading is harder. However, I do not agree with SebastianSimon that it's mostly just ⟨set of characters⟩⟨quantifier⟩⟨qualifier⟩ (Don't do that, btw. Backtracking is a killer..). Some of them are quite tricky and wars are still being fought over them.
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 22:02
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    @Scratte I know that this basic structure is an oversimplification, but knowing it would probably prevent half of all regex questions. However, questions asking about those tricky cases, at least, are interesting! Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 22:27
  • 1
    @SebastianSimon One person's interesting is another one's close reason. Don't expect too many of the interesting ones to come along though. The war is not a joke. Best to stay out of the tag completely
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 22:31
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    But this question is not about dismissing OP with no help. Closing as a duplicate is giving help. If finding solution using dupe target is hard, OP can always ask for clarification in comments. And sorry, if someone having given a regex for "something that is not followed by hyphen", cannot invent a regex for "something that is not followed by left paren", then help does not mean to give a fish. It means to cook the fish and chew it before giving. 1/2 Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 14:17
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    Moreover there are already answers to that question. So the dilemma is "allow more answers for the question and leave it as it is" or "make it a signpost to the other question and no more answers here". I'm for the second option. 2/2 Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 14:17
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    @IanKemp I wholeheartedly agree with your answer. I, too, usually fall into the first camp of wanting to teach people to fish. But there are plenty of questions, with a sliver of nuance, that get missed and closed as being duplicates. To continue the fishing analogy, it's like pointing to the nearest lake and telling the asker to go fish. I'd be interested to know if there is a way to determine whether a user did find their answer from a duplicate. Being able to examine that would add a lot of value to discussions such as this one.
    – John H
    Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 20:53
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    @JohnH In this case, the OP showed a coding attempt. So they were "fishing with the right bait over in that lake", then the duplicate says "fish with that bait over here". We don't need to "give them a fish" when they are 1. already in the vicinity 2. know how to fish 3. have the right bait. As for other askers who ask how to catch a fish while they are sitting at home on their couch, these questions are often Too Broad / Asking for Too Many Techniques. This is a site for devs and programming enthusiasts, we expect their participation in their own success. Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 22:26
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    There was also the less well-known "teach a man to find fish using regex" school, but they all died of starvation couple of years ago :)
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 5, 2021 at 14:19
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    Exactly, in another thread I called this a "code but not exactly code" category, shared by the likes of the SQL and the CSS tag among others. The problems are so driven by context, that single character as you say, that dupe closing them is often just the wrong thing to do. I think I am quite good at (modern) CSS, but by golly I spent an hour trying to figure out why there was padding under an image. Stack Overflow told me why, because it is implicitly there. Doh. Thank god there was a question specifically about padding below an image, rather than just a dupe close about padding in general.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 5, 2021 at 15:33
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    Also, the concise nature of regex syntax makes searching and finding existing regex solutions more difficult than for other types of questions.
    – xdhmoore
    Commented Mar 5, 2021 at 20:14
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    @xdhmoore This is why we encourage all regex answers to include plain English explanations of the pattern. This gives the search engines something to chew on, and by extension something for researchers to search for. We need to have questions with titles and text that specify problems&errors; and we need to have answers with robust explanations which break down the pattern logic and explain why the pattern solves the given problem. I am sure there are many languages with syntax so far removed from English that make searching difficult. Commented Mar 6, 2021 at 23:35
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I'd be inclined to let the experts sort it out. They're the ones who can evaluate and judge this question based on its merits and based on whether or not existing ground has been rehashed.

If they can't come to a consensus in the post, then bringing it to Meta is fine.

The diamond moderator probably felt like this was an easy enough solution to get both sides to chill down for a while since there's been plenty of activity on that post. They're entitled to an opinion of how the question should be handled, but I would imagine that their reaction is more due to the automatic flags generated by all the attention the post is getting more so than their expertise.

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    The trouble is that SME couldn't sort it out. And Wiktor tells me that there is a greater saga at play which is finding duplicate closed pages re-reopened as part of a grander plan. I want to know where SO is suppose to be headed so that I can put myself on the right path. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 0:05
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    @mickmackusa - they've only started. They may need to come to Meta to iron the details out, or to at least find consensus.
    – Makoto
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:06
-24

Here's a suggestion: Let's ban regex questions from Stack Overflow altogether. Didn't we just have a big brouhaha about regex? Why, yes, we did.

Well, people will probably object to a ban as being too heavy-handed. So here are two constructive alternatives, either one of which would have great benefit to both questioners and ... Meta Stack Overflow followers:

Possibility #1: Code is written that runs as part of the new question wizard and does a lmgtfy for the user, taking them to some page on the web which is expressly designed to answer regex questions and does it well. Participants on Stack Overflow have to find other ways to gain reputation but the questioners will be helped (probably better!) and Meta Stack Overflow will get calm and pleasant.

Possibility #2: Invent regex.stackoverflow.com and automatically put all regex questions over there. The answerers will naturally follow. Questioners will be helped, and Meta Stack Overflow will get calm and pleasant.

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    "Invent regex.stackoverflow.com [...] and meta.stackoverflow.com will get calm and pleasant." what about regex.meta.stackexchange.com? I don't really think sweeping problems under t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶g̶ a different stack solves much. That's why we don't migrate poor questions - we don't want to just make them somebody else's problem.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:22
  • 3
    @VLAZ It's not really about ignoring the problem as much as creating a platform that can focus on regex specifically. After all, there are other SE sites that focus on more specific things. And we do migrate questions; not poor questions, but questions about a specific topic, and I think that's what this answer is suggesting.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:26
  • 6
    Transferring convicts from the UK to Australia doesn't fix the problem of having criminals in the world, it just shifts convicts to a different island. Not a solution. This would just result in the same close/reopen war occurring in a different community. Or are you saying there should be a regex community where no question is closed as a duplicate and it is treated like a helpdesk / ticketing system? I foresee veteran contributors tiring of answering with the same answer and saying "look here... hyperlink". I am looking for a solid policy going forward. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:26
  • @mickmackusa There may be close-reopen wars there as well, but at least there would be no doubt that that's a regex specific problem (or rather, a problem with how active followers of the regex tag disagree on curation). Your question implies that these close-reopen wars are a problem across the entirety of SO, and I don't believe that almost any tag faces this issue at anywhere the scale of the regex tag. At least in the C++ tag, which I follow, this is not an issue.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:29
  • 2
    @cigien "creating a platform that can focus on regex specifically." a platform that will be visited by the same people who visit the regex tag now, that will have the same endemic repeat and/or low effort questions as now, and would thus have the same split of goals and opinions on how to moderate it - whether those questions should be answered ad nauseam or should users be pointed at common solutions. No, that's not solving anything, just shifting over where the current problems are.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:30
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    @cigien I see myself bringing similar attention to the php and mysql/sql tag pools because the same high rep users are posting redundant answers to duplicate questions there too (like it is important to reach 1M unicorn points). Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:32
  • 1
    @davidbak I care about Stack Overfow. If I joined this hypothetical regex.SE, then I would care about quality curation there too. It is policy that should be visited, not whether or not we should invent a new niche community. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:34
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    @davidbak bold of you to assume that everybody will shake hands on a single policy just because they aren't in the context of SO. Evidently there is no consensus now. I don't see why it would show up by making a new stack. You're of course free to propose a new site, however I don't see regex.SE solving the regex policy issues.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:35
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    @mickmackusa Yes, policy would need to be crafted on a new site as well, but one major advantage would be that it wouldn't need to be aligned exactly with the policy across SO. I do think that the regex tag is special in several ways, e.g. it's the only tag on SO I'm aware of that explicitly sanctions a RTFM target in its wiki. In any other tag that's not allowed, and proposals for allowing one are shot down (and I think rightly so). A new regex site would be able to develop policy that works for that tag. I'm not saying it will be easy to start a new site, but I think the idea has merit.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:42
  • 2
    @cigien again, we are still currently discussing policies and actions over the past several days. The regex tag is not a new issue in any way - it's always been a problematic topic. We have tried to craft policies around it. The result is where we currently are. I do not share your optimism that regex.SE will be able to overcome the current problems just because it's going to be a clean slate. I expect there would still be long debates about policies there that end up nowhere eventually. That's not even my pessimistic forecast which is much worse.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 1:59
  • 2
    People will say that since a regex question is technically programming, it shouldn't be migrated as it is answerable on Stack Overflow. So some new rule should be added .
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 2:09
  • 1
    @10Rep that is another concern of mine... when there is a niche site that is specifically born to handle a narrow cross-section of programming questions, but migration is not fully engaged to populate the niche site. I moderate joomla.SE and I am only able to comment -- "please ask your Joomla questions at JSE" whereas ideally I'd like the power to transfer Joomla-specific questions to JSE so that my community can grow. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 2:21
  • 4
    You had me at "let's ban regex", couldn't get past that. Have an upvote for the sentiment.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 7:11
  • 6
    "Let's ban regex": this would be weird. Regex is perfectly on topic for SO. Why make an exception for this specific topic?
    – Basj
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 9:52
  • 4
    When a Question can be posted on two different sites, the user can pick which site they want to post it on. That will be no different for a PHP/regex or a Java/regex Question. However, some users seem to go around closing posts if they can be posted on another site, making it that much harder to post anything that's covered on two sites. Creating a new site only for regex will make every single programming Question that contains regex on-topic for both sites. This will not stop the issues seen here, it will simply explode it.
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 12:23
-37
  1. Different questions having similar answers does not make the questions duplicates.

  2. If they are duplicates, the question closed as a duplicate is more general and therefore the better question, despite the other question having attracted better answers.

They're both valuable. I'd keep them both.

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    My question isn't about what should be kept, it is about whether it should be closed. The duplicate that I proposed was not only "similar", it showed both techniques that answered the new question. I know that the two new answerers are capable of recognizing the fact that the solving techniques were exact duplicates despite the full patterns not be absolutely identical -- this is why I was shocked by the unhammering. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:39
  • @mickmackusa Again, questions having the same answers does not make the questions duplicates. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:43
  • 1
    ehm, could you also clarify #2 while we are at it? Not sure how a question being closed as a duplicate leads to it being more general and, especially, to being a better question. Did you mean the other way around?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:43
  • 5
    @Kevin Again, the question had the same logical/technical requirements and was resolvable by offering the duplicate. Waiting for absolutely identical regex patterns on two questions would be like waiting for 64 blindfolded monkeys to all solve their own rubix cube at the same time. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:46
  • @OlegValter I did not suggest that being closed as a duplicate led to the question being more general. It's more general because it asks about the general case ("a[ny] specific character") rather than naming a specific character ("a hyphen") and is therefore more likely to be found in searches by people with similar questions. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:47
  • 4
    I have no problem with adjusting the old page's title to catch more researchers' eyeballs in search results. Please do this (or I will eventually). Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 3:48
  • 2
    Thanks for clarifying the causation part, I think I misread. Now to be more general - isn't this the whole point of marking something as a duplicate? To preserve both while making one a signpost for the other. As mickmackusa already mentioned, this is not about deleting one or the other, but rather closing as duplicate.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 4:08
  • 11
    I took a look at the new question - frankly, it is a blatant dupe and solvable in under a minute at that. I am also sure there is a multitude of other Q&As it can be linked to. It is odd to see differently worded questions with literally identical problems with identical route causes being considered different because they are different questions. Since when A->C, B -> C, therefore (A | B) -> C ceased to be true?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 4:29
  • 2
    I have posted a question and it's a duplicate. Base on the Email I got from stackoverflow giving me 2 option. Accept the dupe : "Review similar questions. Community members have suggested similar questions that may solve the problem. Do any of these answer your question?" And Reject the dupe with the text : "Confirm that none of the suggestions answer your question." I think that your first statement is not the commonly accepted interpretation of what a duplicate is.
    – Self
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 13:18
  • But I do agree that duplicate are not necessary bad. And will use that Stackoverflow blog from late 2010 by JeffAntwood stackoverflow.blog/2010/11/16/…, And the related Meta post and article as a source for the definition and how to handle them.
    – Self
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 13:18
  • 2
    @OlegValter Closed questions can be and often are deleted. That's my main objection to closing anything, because nothing should ever be deleted unless perhaps it's commercial spam. If closing did not lead to deletion, then I would object less to closing. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 16:51
  • 2
    @KevinKrumwiede - regarding deletion, I wholeheartedly agree (a lot of us agree, I think) - this, frankly, an abuse of deletion privilege. I do not think, though, that because someone abuses deletion, we should stop closing. The latter is the right thing to do, but it is also important to call out those who unjustly delete posts (if they do not warrant deletion that is). afaik, this is a separate issue in regex tag discussed here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/405460/…
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 16:57
  • 1
    So should we keep all closed duplicates that have upvoted answers (and never delete them)? If the answer is "Yes", then I should DEFINITELY be answering every duplicate question and then hammering them closed. Is this what Stack Overflow wants me to do? Otherwise, if we want to stop people answering duplicate questions, then we must strip all earned points from a page that is closed as a duplicate. This content curation policy need to be clarified and and distributed so that we don't have community members warring against each other "doing what is right". Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 0:10
  • 2
    @mickmackusa Yes, absolutely. I've found many closed answers to be great resources, and top hits in searches where the wording better matches my own formulation of a question. Not deleting duplicates prevents duplicates. Never delete anything except commercial spam. Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 19:15
  • 2
    "Different questions having similar answers does not make the questions duplicates." This is exactly the definition of a duplicate. Closing as a dupe is to prevent duplicate answers. We're programmers, we don't like repeating ourselves. Commented Mar 5, 2021 at 20:33

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