33

This meta question is marked as duplicate and it also contains some interesting comments as well as a voted up answer. I'd like to keep it around as a couple of people went to some degree of trouble to give me some insight into the number of tags limit.

Why is maximum number of tags on a question set to 5?

However it is continuing to be downvoted.

I'm not sure as to what downvotes mean in this situation. The downvotes don't seem to be affecting anything so far as reputation. And I'm actually curious as to how low can it go. And what happens to the poor thing as it goes lower and lower in negative territory.

However does all this downvoting mean it's a bad question that should be deleted or does it just mean that it's a happy thing to downvote when people are just having a bad day or what?

There is this discussion, Downvotes on Meta are confusing: do they *really* mean poor-post quality, or just disagreement?. However, what's with downvoting a question that is asking about a particular feature?

20
  • 24
    You cannot delete it in any case. It has been answered and the answer has a positive score.
    – yivi
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 16:49
  • 1
    I will guess (I didn't downvote it) that as the tooltip suggests, it is not helpful because it is a duplicate... Or maybe it represents disagreement in the form of people don't care of the tag amount limit on questions
    – Tomerikoo
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 16:50
  • 19
    On meta votes are typically a sign of agreement/disagreement when a proposal is involved. They can go down indefinitely AFAIK. I've seen votes go below -1000
    – charlietfl
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 16:50
  • 11
    Welcome to meta, I guess. Don't worry, you'll get used to it.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 17:18
  • 12
    While I watch your question getting downvotes can you watch my answer get a few more? Thanks!
    – rene
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 19:12
  • 1
    @rene Wow! I don't feel nearly so bad now! And I do appreciate the time you spent on the comment to my question about maximum number of tags. I hope you have a pleasant week. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 21:43
  • @charlietfl That seems to be a bit excessive on the part of the community to downvote a post that much. On the other hand perhaps it's cathartic to just hammer something, like throwing ceramic dishes against a brick wall to hear them shatter. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 21:45
  • 1
    @10Rep Interesting welcome wagon committee. Instead of a fruit basket, downvotes? Lol. When I first started years ago as a wee pup on Stack Overflow, downvotes bothered me a bit. But after the first few, I just take them with a grain of salt now. There is always someone who is going to tell you your baby is ugly. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 21:52
  • 3
    Although it's phrased as a question ("why is the maximum number set to 5?") the overall tone of the post seems more like an opinion or proposal ("I think the maximum number ought to be more than 5"), and as such, votes likely represent whether people agree or disagree with that proposal. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 23:12
  • 1
    @yivi don't know why your comment is being upvoted. 10kers can vote to delete any question as long as it has been closed for 2 days.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 23:13
  • 2
    @10Rep noob, my question has -40.
    – Rojo
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 23:21
  • 1
    what's the point of downvoting when it is already closed? Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 5:11
  • 3
    It's good that microwave popcorn is so cheap:) Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 6:21
  • 3
    Keep in mind @RichardChambers that if you stop bringing fresh eyes on poor posts it can take years before you get another downvote ...
    – rene
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 8:50
  • 2
    @KrishnaChaurasia Because they can. You are asking the wrong question. Why does the site allow voting to continue when the post is closed? Maybe because they are two completely unrelated processes and one does not exclude the other.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 8:40

3 Answers 3

32
  1. There's nothing radioactive about this post. That is to say, there's nothing in this post that would cause actual harm to any passer-by just because it exists. It's unlikely to ever be shown on the main page, and it's unlikely that anyone would go trawling for it - and those that do are less likely to be offended or insulted by it.

  2. There's a well-received answer in the question. It reinforces the fact that the question was a thorough misunderstanding of what tags are and why having too many is a particularly bad signal. We don't want to remove that just because the question is getting downvotes.

  3. No, the downvotes here aren't going to impact reputation. I don't think they'll trip a question ban since I believe that's either really hard to hit or disabled on Meta sites. But it isn't like moderators are completely clueless; if someone continues to post crap, they'll take action. But this question is not crap. It's just incurring disfavor.

  4. Downvotes should really be used objectively in the sense that, "This question is unclear or doesn't make sense." The question makes a ton of sense and again - I can see the frustration or lack of clarity as to why tags shouldn't exceed 5 just because someone wants to ask a question. Sure, you're going to get people who treat those kinds of questions as a pin cushion. But I hope at least you're not one of them.

11
  • 7
    There are no post bans on any per-site Meta. However, MSE does have a post ban because it behaves like a regular site.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 17:52
  • @cigien: Meta Stack Exchange was never a per-Meta site, so...I think we're saying the same thing. :D
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 17:55
  • 3
    Your answer still says "I believe that's either really hard to hit or disabled on Meta sites". I'm just pointing out that it's not only really hard, it's impossible. And I mentioned MSE only because it has "Meta" in the name, and that might be confusing for some users.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 17:57
  • 8
    ahah, I only now realized the help page for meta says that "voting indicates agreement or disagreement" only for "feature-request" posts. Like that's ever going to work, what with them looking exactly like everything else (apart from the small print hidden under the post, that is.)
    – ilkkachu
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 20:59
  • Thank you, your post makes sense. It looks like there is a 22 hour lock on the number of tags question I posted now.. Curiouser and curiouser. Nothing radioactive?!?!? Lol. Must be an industry term. And thank you for clarifying the reputation thing. Enjoy your week. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 22:06
  • 1
    Richard, probably mods heard you and decided to lock the post to prevent further voting? Certainly no content dispute is happening on it. Btw, this is a way to satisfy all parties, but I am not sure if a perma-lock can be achieved without locking the post as "historically significant" which would be a stretch.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 22:26
  • @OlegValter No, it is only a day long lock. They probably try to minimize the extra "attention" generated by this question. Generally, mods try to do the least visible (to minimize the whines/critics).
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 22:40
  • @peterh-ReinstateMonica - yeah, saw that it is a timed one, wondered if this could be a precursor to a permanent lock. In the second part, I referred to the problem at hand - maybe it would be a good idea to lock massively downvoted posts at some point to address the "pile on" issue. Not sure if there is a facility for that, though.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 0:37
  • If I remember correctly, votes should be used as "I agree" or "I disagree" only on meta questions/answers with suggestions? Edit: I just noticed ilkkachu comment that answers this very question of mine.
    – Clockwork
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 11:43
  • 2
    @Clockwork that is an oversimplification of how meta voting works. Votes on can be used to express agreement or disagreement with the ideas in the post, but they can also mean the same thing they do on main site. That's the most confusing part of Meta as it takes experience with the voting culture on meta to really begin to get an idea (and even then, its not always straightforward) Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 13:39
  • @psubsee2003 Indeed. My general opinion of meta voting is that it is confusing :) People vote however they please, trying to explain it as "yeah it's disagreement" is basically a nicety to anyone who is taken aback by it. But it is only part of the story I'm afraid. People also tend to downvote honest questions which have been asked numerous times already for example and that goes into slap on the wrist territory. My opinion is it is best to search but barring that still good to ask, better than being confused and doing the wrong things so I upvote those questions myself.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 8:54
4

I'm not sure as to what downvotes mean in this situation. .. how low can it go.

Downvotes on meta mean either somebody disagrees with you or thinks your question is unclear, not showing sufficient research or not useful. Downvotes do not affect your reputation, as such they are simply the number that will be printed next to your question forever. Minus infinity is the lower limit of that number (I guess).

.. does all this downvoting mean it's a bad question that should be deleted or does it just mean that it's a happy thing to downvote when people are just having a bad day or what?

Could mean either of that, we just have the votes, so you would have to ask the downvoters for that. In the absence of hard data, your guess is as good as anyone's. But please be reminded that always there are at least some people who disagree with any possible other opinion. Disagreement isn't inherently bad, I'd argue.

..what's with downvoting a question that is asking about a particular feature?

Nothing special is with this type of questions and why should there be? Downvotes on meta in practice mean (as far as I can see it) always the same regardless of what the question is about. In theory, the disagreement voting should only take place on feature-requests, but people have long since forgotten it (or have a highly variable opinion about the quality of questions). Anyway, there is a lot of discretion how people vote, that's why it simply comes down to...

Am I supposed to delete this meta question or just continue to watch it get downvotes?

.. everyone doing what he/she feels is the right thing to do. If you feel your question does not add anything useful, delete it (if you can) or if you feel overall it adds something useful, keep it and if you like to watch, watch it getting more votes. All of this is fine.

I personally take downvotes on meta as a hint to critically ask myself what I could have done wrong, especially with regard to quality but that's about it mostly.

2
  • 2
    Let me downvote this so you can spend 6 to 8 weeks critically asking yourself questions. Let us know how it went ....
    – rene
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 12:43
  • 3
    @rene I made an exception and reduced the time to 6-8 seconds. :) Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 12:49
-21

You can not delete the question, because it has an upvoted answer. But you can vote for its deletion, it needs at least three delete votes. However, the deletion would delete also the +14 answer with it, which is considered very useful by the system. Thus, you only have a little chance to get the remaining, at least two, delete votes.

This was the theory.

The practice is this:

  1. Your question is not bad. Its strongly negative score does not represent its quality. It represents the hostility of the meta community.
  2. Beside the general hostility of the MSO community, it also represents very well their... well... say it so, that they do not really understand what voting mean. The downvote to the question means "I think this question is bad or not useful", not that "I disagree with it". They conceptionally can not understand that we can find a question good even if we reject it. Anyway, it is quite hilarious. How could one disagree with a question? Most of the downvoters probably should have voted the answer up, and also your question up (or abstain), but their hostility is usually stronger than their rationality.
  3. You have some chance to ask the CMs on the /contact form to disassociate your question from your account. It is up to them, what they will do with it. I never heard a single case that such a request had been rejected, although I never did it.
  4. You actually need to collect two (maybe a little more) delete votes. You might have some chance to collect the support in chat or lobbying for it on other channels. Note, delete votes do not timeout and are not retractable, so you have the time. A moderator might overrule this deletion. If he/she says that yes, that +14 answer was really good one, and you need to live with this spot on your profile. But its chance is low. The moderators tend to tolerate such "power misuses", if they remain below the radar (and no one flags them). The probability that they would also punish the "perpetrators", is practically zero. (This is also the reason, why my this post will be deleted soon. They will simply downvote, and then delelte-vote it. Then I will flag the post for the unfair deletion, and I will get an undelete in about 10% of the cases. We have played this for the past many years with them.)
  5. If I would start today my meta activities, I would make my meta posts from a secondary account. Using secondary accounts for this is officially accepted.
  6. I think anybody knowing well the meta community, while not being a part of the downvoter herd, considers such voting scores not as a "spot on your profile", instead a result (or meaningless, at least). For this reason, I long stopped to care about my post scores. What matters for me is the count of the upvotes I collect. I think, my most downvoted posts are actually the best ones. If you want to understand someone on the meta, check his/her most downvoted posts!
19
  • 3
    You have persuaded me to carry my downvoted question proudly on my chest as a badge of honor. Speaking of badges, is there a badge for a large number of downvotes? Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 22:07
  • 3
    No, and there won't be ever. In the view of the System, that would mean rewarding negative activities. I think the best to leave a trace to the future, what type of community ruled here and now. Reading your post, everybody will know that it did not deserve its score. Soccer calls this "own goal".
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 22:29
  • 1
    "You can not delete the question, because it has an upvoted answer" [citation needed] User has vote to delete privileges. It can be deleted using those.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 23:15
  • 9
    I thought it was well known that on Meta, downvotes can mean "I disagree with the premise suggested by this question" rather than "this is a bad question". You seem to disagree. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 4:45
  • 1
    @MarkRansom The post states not only that it is a practice, and a bad practice. It also states that this can happen because the majority of the MSO community is overly hostile and generally do not understand what voting means. I.e. what they want is not to create a "collective popularity indicator", they just want to punish the OP.
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 8:07
  • 2
    @peterh No, “downvote” = “I disagree” isn’t bad practice on MSO, it’s intentional and makes perfect sense here. I agree with the rest of your answer, in particular with regards to hostility, but your point about downvotes as disagreement being bad practice detracts from your answer. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 10:41
  • @KonradRudolph 1. Beside the hostility, it just does not show what the intent of the voter would be. Voting down the question actually decreases the strength of the answer votes. 2. Do you have an idea, how can one disagree a question?
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 11:19
  • @peterh Many questions on MSO are proposals or arguments, and it’s perfectly possible to disagree with those. In the case of OP’s question, which is an actual (and well-posed, to boot!) question, downvotes indeed don’t make sense. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 11:35
  • 1
    @KonradRudolph 1. The post of the OP was not a proposal or argument, he asked really a question. 2. Check, for example, this. Op asked, where to go with his CS question. The answer of the community: +2/-24 . 3. Even if the OP posted a proposal/suggestion/argument as a question, then there is a huge difference saying, "the question is bad" and "the suggested idea is bad".
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 11:39
  • 1
    @peterh … your comment seems to merely restate (part of) what I already wrote in my last comment?! Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 11:41
  • 7
    There is already a delete vote on this answer. I think this is misuse, especially as it was mentioned in this answer. Disagreement has already been expressed by downvotes. Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 8:55
  • 1
    @PeterMortensen Thanks. I could see the perpetrator by deleting the post myself, checking its timeline and then un-delete it. It would not reset the del vote, but I would see him in the history. But I think it does not worth it.
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 11:23
  • 2
    @peterh no, I do not downvote to punish the OP, either here or on main. You pretending that you know better than every single voter is a bit insulting. And in an actual condescending paternalistic way of "I understand your motives better than yourself", not in an imaginary points way. Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 16:38
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier No, you are not so bad guy. You can not be, your up/down ratio is the opposite. I deleted the comments.
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 17:13
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier I do not need to understand their motives. It is enough if I know their behavior. For example, if you see that X does mostly evil, then you have the reason to think that X is evil. Beside that, yes I have an opinion about their motives - in some posts I detailed them, probably they are now mostly deleted. Yes, that is nothing good. I actually sacrificed this online identity, already in 2015, to become the first user here who had the spine to talk freely. Now we are much more. This post had got about +1/-30 in 2015. Now the +10/-28, yes it is an improvement.
    – peterh
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 17:18

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .