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Consider the following question:

New features of C++20?

I want to know how much is C++20 different from C++17? I mean, the new features added compared to those already existing in C++17. I have seen many mentions to some features like:

  • Three-way comparison operator <=>
  • Calendar extensions for the chrono library.
  • Improved multithreading support.

But I don't think that's all. An URL pointing to a site that gives such information is also welcome.

This was closed as off-topic - rightly, in my opinion; it's a request for a list of things (and of an off-site resource, but that's only presented as an option for what an answer might be; also, due disclosure - I was one of the close-voters).

Do you agree it should have been closed? Good. Now consider this question:

What are the new features in C++17?

C++17 is now feature complete, so unlikely to experience large changes. Hundreds of proposals were put forward for C++17.

Which of those features were added to C++ in C++17?

When using a C++ compiler that supports "C++1z", which of those features are going to be available when the compiler updates to C++17?

This should also have been closed by the same logic (even though it doesn't explicitly ask for an external link as an optional answer). Yet...

The low-rep user who asked the second question rightly asked "why is that one ok but mine is close-worthy?"

A poignant question IMHO.

No disrespect for Yakk intended.

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    Carrying forward one of the comments, I suspect that it's heavily related to the C++17 author seeing a lack of any such comprehensive list—being familiar with this specific user, I'm confident he would have found one—and deciding to put in the work to create one and share it. Of course I can't say for sure, but I think it's a reasonable guess. The people here have pretty consistently appreciated high effort.
    – chris
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:38
  • 9
    Clearly there's some contention though, it's been closed and re-opened four times plus another seven unsuccessful trips through the close votes queue. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:39
  • 9
    And it has 8 other answers that were so poor quality they had to be deleted. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:40
  • 2
    I strongly appreciate the C++17 question because that was what inspired me to learn it. I frequent this site a lot more than many others so I think that this is a good place for such questions that encourage aknowkedge.
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:45
  • 2
    @lateo96: The thing is, SO should not replicate other, non-Q&A sites, like isocpp.org, or cppreference.com, or even the Wikipedia page on C++20. And that's also true for C++17 - so, IMHO, that question should be closed, even now.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:46
  • 2
    Can you explain what makes those questions off-topic? Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:51
  • 6
    @HolyBlackCat: The tour says: "Don't ask about: ... requests for lists of things." And "features in C++17" is a huge list of things.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:53
  • 3
    @einpoklum then about half question in this site should be closed. Do you know how many list-related question I've seen here? Also, I think you are being quite pragmatic on this (about the list I mean)
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:56
  • 1
    @einpoklum I agree with lateo96 on this. The help center page on off-topic questions doesn't mention the "asks for a list" thing. I think the mentioned section of the tour (which isn't even normative) is about "lists of off-site resources". Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:57
  • 1
    @HolyBlackCat: Asking for the list of features of C++17 or 20 is not "a practical ... problem", to quote the helper center page.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:01
  • 2
    @einpoklum Half of the [language-lawyer] questions are not practical, yet the C++ tag community loves them. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:02
  • 2
    @lateo96 then about half question in this site should be closed. I'd go a bit further. Probably a lot further. But I also think that Thanos didn't go far enough. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:36
  • 6
    Whether "What are the new features in C++17?" is off-topic or not is already discussed in meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326951/…... So as long as "New features of C++20?" question can demonstrate that it meets the same reasoning it should be fine... we just need to have answer demonstrating that list is "short" and finite (later is definitely the case as spec if fixed size :) ) Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 0:43
  • 2
    @chris Regarding "I suspect that it's heavily related to the C++17 author seeing a lack of any such comprehensive list" the very first comment to the question posted such a list within 24 hours of the question being asked, and several other links were posted later in comments. And regardless of all that, it's absurd on its face to think that C++ 17 would have been released without a list of the new features. The OP obviously put a lot of effort into that answer, and it's beautifully presented, but it's not as though the information wasn't already available elsewhere.
    – skomisa
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 3:11
  • 2
    @lateo96 "then about half the questions on this site would be closed" There are nearly 20 million questions on the site. I doubt more than a few hundred of them are 'what are all the features of X language/version'.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 13:18

9 Answers 9

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Yes, we were blinded by what is effectively a long and interesting blog post by Yakk, but which is quite off-topic as an SO answer, and let the question slide without closing it. This served as a poor lesson for @lateo96, who got hit with a closure trying to ask a question in the same vein.

Note that just as I wrote these lines, the C++17 question has been closed as off-topic. ... and reopened the next day.

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From what I've seen, it's a general community consensus that self-answered questions on a broad topic are allowed but regular questions on a broad topic are not.

I think that this is because:

  • There is no useful information already present on a regular question on a broad topic.
  • The OP of the self-answered question often put in an above-average amount of effort in order for the question and answer to be useful.

It's not about whether the user has low reputation or not. That has absolutely no bearing. It's if the question already has useful information with it, in the form of an answer, and has had effort put into it.

Take for example Why should I always enable compiler warnings? (plz no Meta effect). This question could be seen as too broad or opinion-based but is a useful question and is self-answered, so it is open. (I admit that some people voted to close this question, but that was because they didn't realize it was a canonical-faq.)

Even the C++17 question itself proves the point:


...

You could get all language-lawyery and say that all of these broad-but-useful self-answered questions are off-topic, but then some of the most useful questions on this site would be closed. Noone wants that.

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    1. The example you give is not a "broad topic". 2. The issue with the two questions are that they're asking for a long laundry-list. 3. If this is the norm, and should be the norm, then we have to make it clear to low-rep users how come we're allowing these questions from others but not from them.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:07
  • 1
    @einpoklum Read the last paragraph again.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:08
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    Actually, a lot of useful questions are currently closed or locked, because the rules for good questions changed over time. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:08
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    What do you know, Shog himself reopened the C++17 question. Now that's authoritative too. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:09
  • @S.S.Anne: I didn't and am not claiming that all broad-but-useful self-answered questions are off-topic. Although - perhaps some of them belong on tag pages.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:11
  • 3
    @einpoklum It's not about whether the user is low reputation or not. That has absolutely no bearing. It's if the question already has useful information with it, in the form of an answer, and has had effort put into it.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:12
  • 2
    @S.S.Anne: 1. Newbie, low-rep users don't have the ability to effectively self-answer, and thus skirt the on-topic requirements. 2. You're making a different argument than in your answer, which I believe I have rebutted.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:18
  • @einpoklum 1. The button's right there for them to push. 2. ...ok? 3. A biography of Bjarne Stroustrup is not about programming at all, it's about a person.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:20
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    @S.S.Anne: 1. You are proving my point about bias. 3. I retracted that comment because I needed a better example. Maybe "list of cool hacks using GCC builtins" or something that might be practically useful and get a lot of votes if people ignored its off-topicness.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:26
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    @einpoklum How am I proving the point about bias? The button is right there, in their face. I saw it the first time I asked a question, before I even knew what off-topic meant.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 22:28
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    It's also partly that these incredibly broad questions are asking answerers to do an unreasonably broad amount of work to produce a comprehensive reference for someone who likely only requires a small portion of it. If you've already done the unreasonably broad amount of work to cover everyone and just want to share it, well, great.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:00
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Let's look at this from a practical perspective. The most fundamental difference between the C++17 question and the C++20 question was that the C++17 question was self-answered. The point of closing a question is to prevent it from being answered, so self-answering a question on some level makes question closure less important. And for an answer where edits are encouraged like the C++17 one, closing the question is at best a symbolic gesture.

The horse left the stable the moment you put him in the barn; closing the door isn't helping.

I'm making no value judgments here; I'm not claiming at this point that this state of affairs is good or bad. But this is the effect of the rules we have. The primary mechanism for the community to enforce its rules is question closure to prevent answering. If you self-answer a question, closure becomes a lot less relevant, and thus enforcement as a practical matter is less capable.

So while it may not be our intent for self-answered questions to be able to skirt the rules, that is the way it works out in practice. The only moderation mechanism left after closure is deletion, which requires that the question either attract enough downvotes or direct moderator intervention.

So this is not favoritism per-se. It's simply the result of whether you're posting because you want the answer or you're posting because you want to create a useful artifact for the answer you already more-or-less have. The latter is rewarded because it creates an immediately useful artifact, and it's "allowed" because there's basically nothing that can be done to stop it.

The difference in voting comes from a similar place. Some people will see the question as a violation of our rules and downvote. Others may see it as a useful artifact, but they are far more likely to do so if it actually contains the information they're looking for. This is why there's a 20:1 upvote/downvote ratio on the C++17 question, while the C++20 one is in the negatives.


As for whether having this loophole is good, I would say... maybe.

The common legalistic argument is that any question which lives on the site that violates the rules, by merely existing, is an argument for another such question. And it's hard to argue against that because we wouldn't be having this discussion otherwise.

The common argument in favor of the question is that, it adds value to the site. I've referred to it many times myself, Google will find it for you very easily, and nowhere else on the entire Internet has a better, more digestible collection of virtually everything in C++17. Having this information is making the Internet better, which is supposed to be our founding principle.

The legalistic counter-argument is that our rules exist, not because they only cull out garbage, but because the few good artifacts produced by such questions aren't worth allowing the torrents of trash that the rules filter out.

And yet, the C++20 question was downvoted and closed. It's not going anywhere. Though we are discussing this because of the existence of the C++17 question, the actual harm that can be attributed to that question consists of... a quickly closed question and a discussion. So, from a purely practical, utilitarian perspective, the C++17 question's existence has caused far more good than harm.

Personally, I lean against the legalistic viewpoint. I don't feel comfortable with the rigidity, and I don't have a problem with allowing a small plethora of good artifacts to exist which don't follow the rules. Yes, that means every now and then, we have to get on the site and remind everyone that they are exceptions, not precedents. But I would say that the good caused by these exceptions typically outweighs the bad.

And it's not like we can't get rid of the bad ones when they appear.

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  • 4
    You might want to elaborate why we want to prevent answers: it's not because we're sadistic or anything, it's to prevent bad answers to arguably bad questions. With an open ended question like those C++ examples, any average answer is guaranteed to be too short and incomplete, and it's highly unlikely that somebody'll spontaneously come along to write an answer complete enough to do the question justice. Having such a partial answer hanging around and possibly becoming canonical is worse than not having the entire question in the first place. That's a non-issue with self-answered Qs.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:39
  • 1
    "The point of closing a question is to prevent it from being answered" <- That's only a secondary point for questions that are off-topic. Also, what you're describing completely disregards the low-reputation users, who experience a norm which is at best inconclusive and poorly described to them and at worst unfair/discriminatory.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:43
  • 1
    Also, and this addresses @deceze 's comment - you're rationalizing after the fact. If self-answered "list of things" questions can be on-topic - that needs to be made explicit, and more importantly - it needs to be clear to newbie users what they should and should not ask. So if we continue to make such exceptions, they need to know why they can't.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:45
  • 4
    @einpoklum I agree, the basic concept of SO is badly conveyed, and barely anyone remembers the purpose of SO anymore. The letter of the law is all that most people see these days, its spirit has mostly gotten lost. SO is supposed to be something like the Wikipedia of programming in a Q&A format. It's not a place to get your question answered, it's a place to find answers to questions. If a post is a net positive in this context, it's great. If a post is a net negative for that purpose, it must go.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 8:00
  • Wow. I wish I could've done this good of a job.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 13:38
7

TL;DR:

  1. Let's not language-lawyer the close reasons; Yakk's question about C++17 is useful and should stay.

  2. lateo96's question about C++20 might've been closed incorrectly, but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't received well. Close votes being used as 'super downvotes' is not new.


First, the Yakk's question about changes in C++17:

I think yes, we do have a bias here. Not in favor of high-rep users answering their own questions, but in favor of questions that have good answers. I don't think Yakk's question would've been received differently if he didn't have so much rep, or if the answer was posted by someone else.

But this bias is not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion. Let's not forget that our goal is to 'build a repository of programming knowledge in a Q&A format', and the close reasons (and the other rules we have) are there only to facilitate it.

Even though the Yakk's question is somewhat broad, that Q&A is a nice addition to the site (in my opinion), so it was received well.

off-topic ... it's a request for a list of things

A "request for a list of things" is not a close reason, "too broad" is. Whether or not something is too broad is subjective.

The help center elaborates how broad is "too broad":

Your questions should be reasonably scoped. If you can imagine an entire book that answers your question, you’re asking too much.

Yakk didn't need a book to answer his question. He crammed a complete answer into a single post.


Next, the lateo96's question about C++20 changes:

In my opinion, it might've been closed incorrectly.

But close votes being used as 'super downvotes', while not a good thing, is not new. For example, we often close homework dumps with arbitrary close reasons.

Note to @lateo96: Even if the consensus will be that your question is not against the rules, it won't change the fact that the question wasn't received well (score of -4).

The questions on SO are often viewed as (and often are) requests for personal help, rather than suggestions to populate a knowledge base. If you ask for too much (compiling a list of C++20 features is a lot of work), it might be perceived as rude and downvoted.

Even if we reopen your question, I doubt someone (who wouldn't do it otherwise) will put in the hours of effort to provide a decent answer.

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    I think TL;DR should be "it is hard to say 'not showing research' to the question that has 10 page long self-answer, while it is pretty much guaranteed to get downvotes for 'list this for me' request"... Otherwise totally agree. Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 0:22
  • 1
    Linking to meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326951/… may be useful as it exactly about on-topic-ness of "C++17 features" Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 0:47
  • You're right, but your are missing some things. One is that at least the first and second downvote is maybe for the same persons that closed the question. Another is that average users or users with not high reputation do not tend to upvote questions that had been downvoted, and even some tend to downvote them, even without thinking about that. In most cases, question that had been initially downvoted will likely keep a negative record.
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:02
  • Even if I research and provide a decent answer I'm pretty sure that it will not been reopened.
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:04
  • Also, I already had an experience with a self-answered question about Qt6 new features that I self-answered and was closed. So thinking on that, I do not think that this answer deserves my upvote, because I don't think that it is true, based on my own experience.
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:07
  • @lateo96 "Even if I research and provide a decent answer I'm pretty sure that it will not been reopened" You wouldn't be able to provide an answer because it's closed. But you're right that it's hard to get a question reopened; sometimes it's easier to ask a new one. If you wait a few days and ask a new question, it has a good chance to not be closed if you write a great answer (and especially if you word the question to not look off-topic: no requests for URLs, etc). Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:10
  • @lateo96 "your are missing some things. One is that at least the first and second downvote is maybe for the same persons that closed the question" Yes, it's possible. I think I mentioned it, but maybe my wording wasn't very clear. When I said that "close votes are being used as super-downvotes", I meant that people often close-vote in addition to downvoting, when they think a simple downvote isn't enough. Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:12
  • @lateo96 "I already had an experience with a self-answered question about Qt6 new features that I self-answered and was closed" Self-answering doesn't unconditionally make your question on-topic. It often improves how the question is received to a some degree, but if the question is blatantly off-topic, it will still be closed. Can you link to that question? Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:15
  • I tried, sorry, but it was deleted. I also google about how to get the link of a deleted question but it says that I need at least 10K of reputation, sorry... :-(
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:16
  • @lateo96 You might find it here, or in your browser history. I think you'll be able to view the question even without 10K rep since you posted it. Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:20
  • But it was more than 60 days ago... so it is not "recent" no?
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:20
  • @lateo96 Yep, if it's so old, then it's not in that list. But it should still exist, so a link from your browser history would work. Though looking for it probably doesn't worth the effort. Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 1:38
  • Yes, and also, my sister is kind of intrusive so I delete the browser's history from time to time.
    – lateus
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 15:49
  • "Let's not <...> close; question is useful and should stay." Closure is not the same as deletion. Closure signals that a question isn't a good fit for SO, even if it's useful.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Apr 4, 2020 at 10:34
7

It's not just high rep users. If you're Famous Enough™, you can get away with it too.

Don't make me link to examples. You can find one or two in some of my more recent and prominent Meta questions.

Ideally, we treat questions equally in that, if a question is off-topic, it really doesn't matter who asks it or how many votes it has. There does seem to be a bit of a warp which happens in that users can just...not follow that convention because more votes somehow overrules topicality.

From what I can see, the community might be coming together to right the issue at hand; no disrespect to the OP intended, but the question is still off-topic.

Just hope that the OP doesn't email Stack Overflow, Inc. to convince people to reopen it.

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    "no respect to the OP intended" - Freudian slip Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:09
  • Side note: community already "coming together" at least once on that particular "C++17 features" question - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326951/… with roughly 3:1 split favoring "on-topic". Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 7:39
  • 1
    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica: You surely knew that I meant "no disrespect to the OP intended".
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 15:05
4

Why do we close questions?

Because it prevents answers from being be posted.

Why do we want to prevent answers from being posted?

Because we want to prevent bad answers from being posted.

Why do we want to prevent bad answers from being posted?

Because once a question exists it's supposed to be canonical, e.g. it will show up in Google results and can be used as a duplicate target. If that question becomes the canonical post about new C++ features, and it contains only bad answers, that's worse for everyone.

Why do we presume to know that some questions can only beget bad answers?

That's arguably very subjective, but mostly: experience. The average answer on SO is pretty short. It's the rare outliers where a user took many hours crafting a superb answer with many thousands of words. It is highly unlikely that such answers will spontaneously come about by random passers-by. More likely an open-ended question such as those C++ examples will spawn many short, incomplete, mutually incoherent answers, if any at all. They will be collectively worse as a canonical response to the question than not having that question in the first place.

If it's foreseeable that the only answer that could appropriately cover the question requires substantial effort to write, which is unlikely to spontaneously happen, then it's "too broad" it needs more focus and is overall better off closed.

Why does this not apply to self-answered questions?

Because with self-answered questions an appropriate answer is already given, so it becomes a non-issue. A broad question with a great answer is a net positive for this knowledge base of programming related topics, so we're happy to have it.

Reputation isn't the issue, the presence or absence of an answer and the likelihood of that answer emerging is. That question which remained open was self-answered and already contained a substantial answer at the time it was posted, which has since been expanded in dozens of revisions over the years. The same cannot be said about the question that got closed, and it's not foreseeable that that question will receive an answer of similar quality. If anyone was inclined to compile such a list, they would do it of their own volition and could post it as a self-answered question.

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    I don't see why the C++17 question should stay open. It got an answer. It is unlikely to get another answer of comparable quality. The answer can still be edited if needed even if the question is closed. To me it just feels "inconsistent" to leave an off-topic question open just because it got a self-answer. Are there any effects that closing a question has that I am missing? According to the Help Center the main difference between an open and a closed question is that a closed question can not get any new answers.
    – Lomtrur
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 10:10
  • 2
    Again, the main purpose of closing a question is to signal to the OP that the question requires improvements and that answers won't be accepted until the question has been improved. The point of that is to prevent bad answers, which may be posted because the question is too vague or not focused enough. You see this all the time in tags like php, where some vague coding puzzle leads to half a dozen really terrible answers quickly which just spread a bad understanding of the language because the question itself was fundamentally flawed and can't be answered well.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 10:18
  • 2
    Generally the same goes for questions which are too broad; they usually cannot be answered in any appropriate manner and would just leave half-answered ruins which many people might stumble across but which all would find unsatisfactory. Since a great answer already exists, that's of no practical concern. Yes, in the case of self-answered questions the question is somewhat judged based on the answer. But let's be practical: we want a useful, quality knowledge base of programming related wisdom. All the tools like question closing work towards this purpose. Don't put the cart before the horse.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 10:18
  • 1
    As I've said elsewhere - you're only providing one reason for closing questions. Off-topic questions are closed, on their own and regardless of answers.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 12:34
  • 1
    What about the new users who use questions like this being open as justification for posting their own bad questions? Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 17:22
  • 2
    @JohnMontgomery my understanding of deceze's idea is: it's the questioner's responsibility to prove that the question is on-topic. Common way is to provide information in the question, but for opinion based and too-broad questions providing correct complete authoritative self-answer is another way. I don't see it really expanding what is "on-topic" but rather shows a way for questions that only look off-topic to stay on site. In this particular case we can argue if list of 40+ items is "too broad" (I think yes) or not but everyone can check correctness and completeness of the answer... Commented Apr 4, 2020 at 6:40
2

To expand on S.S. Anne's answer (which I agree with completely) a bit, a strict interpretation of "broad, but with a good self-answer" questions as off-topic would badly inhibit the ability to write canonical FAQs.

Consider these (excellent, please don't close-vote them) questions for Java/Android:

What is a NullPointerException, and how do I fix it?

Unfortunately MyApp has stopped. How can I solve this?

What is a stack trace, and how can I use it to debug my application errors?

On their face, every one of these would be clearly off-topic if asked today without a self-answer (even if some of them may have been non⁠–self-answers long ago).

But they're extremely helpful to have around, especially because people ask specific versions of them all the time—they have, respectively, 9710, 1322, and 637 linked questions—and it's useful to have a canonical place to point to, rather than having to give basically the same answer (e.g., "foo is null, figure out why") to hundreds or thousands of ever-so-slightly different questions.

2

I don't see any problem with the question, as long as it is specific and answers are kept brief and of high technical quality. The question itself needs to be phrased so that it asks for a narrow enough scope and not "write me a book about everything new in C++11".

A question along the lines of "What exactly is the difference between C++X and C++Y" can be summarized with a list of features, but coming up with such a list is not necessarily trivial! It isn't as easy as to just copy the list from the standard, because those lists are known to be both incomplete and also hard to understand for the average programmer.

Take this as an example: Are all of the features of C99 also in C++?. This list was based on the standards, but had to be manually adjusted with some research effort. The question isn't as trivial to answer as "just RTFM". (And lets not even mention the extremely low quality appendix of the C++ standard listing "all" the difference between C and C++.)

These kind of posts are also very helpful to keep around as canonical duplicates. Overall, they are useful for a whole lot of people.

If you want to wage wars against list-style posts, there's far worse cases swimming around out there: Delete the list of random books?

-18

Self answering (what Yakk did, and your post omits) makes a difference. It is directly encouraged in the help center

If you have a question that you already know the answer to, and you would like to document that knowledge in public so that others (including yourself) can find it later, it's perfectly okay to ask and answer your own question on a Stack Exchange site.

This is inline with the SO model being a repository of knowledge and not a plain Q&A site.

And that spirit of sharing is very likely what affected people's perception of it, causing them to hit the button that says "this post is useful".

As for your cheeky question in the title. No, we don't. I doubt Yakk's post would have been received differently if it had been posted by a user with 100 rep.

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    But if the question is off-topic, why should the self-answer - interesting though it is - make a difference?
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:41
  • 22
    I was under the impression that self-answered questions still have to stand as a good question independent of the answer. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:41
  • 2
    Indeed - I've asked about this before when I wasn't sure and a self-answer doesn't waive the quality requirement for the question. If the question is off-topic regardless of the answer, then the question is still off-topic.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:44
  • @JohnMontgomery - The upvote button mentions posts being "useful", not some objective notion of good. I suspect people have no qualms finding a post that is meant to share information with them as useful. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:44
  • 2
    @einpoklum - Because it does. Doing all the work to share with strangers (under a Q&A model, silly as it may be) is different than hoping for someone to do it on ones behalf. That alters the perception, and the tendency to vote. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:48
  • 1
    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica there are more agreements in the linked dupe. You are also free to show an authoritative resource that says that questions that are self-answers are not subject to quality control.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:49
  • 6
    @VLAZ Self answers do not get a pass in any way. That's from someone who was an authoritative source at the time of posting. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:49
  • @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica But the question on its own is exactly as useful as the other one. Stack Overflow isn't a blog platform, and as einpoklum suggested above it shouldn't try to be. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:50
  • 2
    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica: In that case I'm sure you'll not close my upcoming question "What is the most popular limmerick about C++?", which I will answer starting with "There was a Bjarne from Nantucket".
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:50
  • 1
    @einpoklum - No, I won't. I don't find it "useful". Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:51
  • 4
    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica: What if 1,000 people find it useful because they are inspired by limmericks? :-\
    – einpoklum
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:51
  • 3
    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica you are confusing upvotes with close votes. The two are not diametrically opposite. One can find a post useful but still off-topic. And vice versa - on-topic but not useful. The latter should not be closed, the former - should.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:52
  • 1
    @VLAZ - I am not confusing anything with anything. The OP clearly stated they wish to understand why one post has 1000 upvotes (supposedly adding some insult to injury), I clearly answered that. Commented Apr 1, 2020 at 21:53
  • 1
    @VLAZ "on-topic" is somewhat tag-specific. What if there was just stream of "can I do XXX in C++17" completely on-topic questions at that time and broad answer by Yakk was put there to serve as universal duplicate? Like "Null Reference/Pointer Exception" questions for each language... Clearly people in that tag did not find post off-topic (and note that C/C++ community put efforts into maintaining similar questions like famous "C book list" - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/355588/…) Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 0:31
  • 3
    @AlexeiLevenkov you'd notice that I've not actually argued whether the question discussed is on-topic or not. That's because I honestly cannot say. What I did do is say that self-answers are not exempt from quality requirements. I stand by that statement. If a question is self-answered but off-topic, then it should be closed. I did actually VTC one today. If a question is a self-answered and on-topic then there is no issue. Whether the specific question discussed here is on-topic or not is for others to decide.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 2, 2020 at 0:36

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