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Stack Exchange just announced that it is rewarding the question askers:

We’re recalculating reputation for every Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange individual based on this change. Every question upvote earned in the past will earn a value of ten reputation points retroactively.

While the change itself is very debatable, I am focusing this question on the retroactive part, because it seems to be against how the law generally works and also against performing changes that heavily disturb reputation:

  • Ex post facto law principle (a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed). In SE's case, there is no crime involved, but following the principle, you generally do not change the consequences retroactively. An interesting fact is that "American jurisdictions generally prohibit ex post facto laws".

  • "User was removed" does not generate reputation loss if the impact is big:

The reputation adjustment always occurs whenever a user is deleted, unless that user has cast a very large number of votes.

By the same principle, one change should not affect a very large number users' reputation.

Why is (was?) askers rewarding applied retroactively?


I have just realized that this already happened also on non-SO sites like Politics and my reputation has jumped a lot on Politics where I had asked a lot of questions. Now my reputation is above that of many of other fellow users about I know for sure they had much more meaningful contribution (i.e. very well documented answers) because they are often the ones answering my questions.

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    When they decreased it years ago, they also did so retroactively. I wouldn't be surprised if the way it's set up under the hood, they already had the mechanism to do it retroactively and didn't want to bother creating a new procedure that would just start now. "Okay, the first 12 votes on this question were made before November 13th 2019, so they're worth 5 points, and the remaining 3 votes were made after..." Just thinking about what would be involved to keep them straight would make me reach for anything that already exists to do the job.
    – Davy M
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 8:16
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    Ok. So the main reason is a technical one. Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 8:18
  • Possibly, but we'd need someone with insight into the decision making process to be sure. It's not a bad question to ask, there could be a much more interesting reason.
    – Davy M
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 8:18
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    I can imagine doing it not retroactively would result in a quite complex procedure if they would try to do recalculation at any later point in time for whatever reason. Instead of calculating [numUpvotedQuestions * scorePerQuestionUpvote] they would need to consider the time at which the question has been upvoted and the set of rules valid at that time. SO developers should not open that door to their management ;) Additionally some users may consider it unfair that their upvotes in 2019 and earlier are not equal to upvotes in 2020 and later.
    – Selaron
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 9:52
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    I took it as the way the reputation recalculation already worked - it recalcs everything from scratch. You change the rules, the reputation recalc is going to apply that rule to your entire history.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 10:06
  • @Selaron - any change of rules (or law) might be perceived as unfair by some. Decrease a tax now and all that have payed the higher amount might feel that it is not fair for paying the higher amount for years and years. Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 10:37
  • @Alexei I agree fairness is a non trivial thing.
    – Selaron
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 10:42
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    How votes are counted are merely rules and in now way a law Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 11:24
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    rep += (vote.Date < new DateTime(2019, 11, 13)) ? 5 : 10; Branch prediction is good, costs at most a handful of nanoseconds. Whether they don't have anybody left to know where to put it or they just don't care is not obvious. Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 12:03
  • @ThomasSchremser - yes, rules are not that strict as law is. However, changing the rules and affecting years of activity means a lack of predictability. And people tend to like predictable things. Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 12:07
  • With this answer of mine regarding the decision more generally in mind - you will likely not get any answer from the decision-maker(s); SE Inc. isn't - for now - in the habit of being committed to discussion nor to transparency in decision-making. Considering how the decision-making process here was somewhat rushed, and did not involve a proper phase of community discussion or even intake-of-comments - it might just be the case that this question didn't occur to them, i.e. that they didn't seriously consider making the change non-retroactively.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 13:40
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    It is interesting that question complains that this particular change is not aligning with some precedent in unrelated field while all current and previous reputation changes were and are handled exactly the same way - full recalc including all historical numbers… Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 22:32

1 Answer 1

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There are several good reasons to apply the change retroactively, which I think make an overwhelming case when taken together:

  • The previous change, from awarding 10 points per question upvote to awarding 5, applied retroactively. Consistency with that precedent suggests this one should apply retroactively, too.
  • Besides being an incentive, part of the purpose of rep is to indicate the value of a user's contributions. But, all else held equal, questions asked before this change weren't any less valuable than ones asked today. It would be weird if the rep rewards suggested otherwise.
  • Yet another part of the purpose of rep is to determine who is deserving of the privileges that are granted at various rep thresholds. Here, too, it's illogical for the change not to be retroactive. If it's not retroactive, then we end up concluding that somebody who earned 300 question upvotes in 2018 cannot be trusted with close-vote powers, but somebody who earns 300 question upvotes in 2020 can be, which doesn't make sense.
  • Implementing it retroactively is presumably the simplest possible thing for the devs to implement: they just tweak the value of a question upvote, then run the historical reputation recalculation script that already exists. Avoiding the retroactive application would require new logic, which means spending dev time and introduces more scope for bugs.
  • If the change doesn't apply retroactively, then people's rep histories will sometimes show +5 for an upvote and sometimes +10. That'll be confusing to new users in the future who are trying to understand the history.
  • If the change doesn't apply retroactively, then the staff would need to decide how the system would handle retraction of upvotes. If I upvoted a question before the change and then I retract it after, how much rep does the user lose? If I then subsequently re-upvote it, how much rep does the user gain? Every possible answer here is unsatisfactory in some way:
    • If retracting results in −10 rep, then when a user who upvoted my question in the past gets deleted and their votes vanish, I get punished on net for the fact that they found my question helpful. This is unfair.
    • If retracting results in −5 rep, but subsequent re-voting results in +10 rep, then I can further reward people I upvoted in the past by retracting and restoring my vote. This is a perverse incentive for me to engage in an annoying behaviour that doesn't add value to the site, especially given that I may need to make a dummy edit in order to retract my vote if it's already locked in.
    • If retracting results in −5 rep, but subsequently re-voting only results in +5 rep again, then the site needs to check whether I previously voted in order to figure out how much rep to award someone when I upvote their post, which is annoying extra complexity.

As for your legal analogy...

Ex post facto law principle (a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed). In SE's case, there is no crime involved, but following the principle, you generally do not change the consequences retroactively. An interesting fact is that "American jurisdictions generally prohibit ex post facto laws".

... I note that this isn't generally held to forbid legal changes that alter the value of a person's property, and thus their wealth. If I invest all my money in a factory that uses a chemical process that the government subsequently bans, thus rendering my factory worthless, then that's too bad for me—I simply lose all my wealth. Likewise, if I invest all my money in a factory and then the government decides to start subsidising consumers' purchases of the thing my factory makes, driving up demand and profits, then—lucky me!—I become rich. Both these things involve rule changes that immediately and dramatically alter my wealth, and both are considered acceptable in real-life politics and law—including in America.

In the same spirit, it doesn't seem like an "ex post facto law" if the rep-value of my existing posts gets altered by a rule change here.

In conclusion, I'm not convinced there's a good principled reason why this change mustn't be retroactive, and I see several good reasons for it to be. I think making it retroactive is the right call.

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    I don’t normally take time to say this, but this answer is stellar. Thank you so much for writing it. This has been a frequently-asked question regarding the question weight changes, and I appreciate having a thoughtful, well-written answer to which to refer. When I first opened the question, I had been hoping a staff member would have posted an authoritative answer. You’ve done better than I could have hoped of them.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 14, 2019 at 20:42

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