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I've recently started contributing to the review queues, and thought i was getting a good handle on what to flag, but got a flag ban, so maybe I wasn't. If I could get some guidance on what the right thing to do in these situations would be, I'll be better able to contribute without wasting moderators time. I have 32 helpful flags, and 3 declined. Here are my declined flags:

  1. A question that was only a link to a car part for sale (screenshot for <10k). I flagged it as spam. It has since been deleted so I can't see it, but I understand moderators and high rep users can. My flag was declined as: - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it
  2. An answer: Instead of update.package(checkBuilt = TRUE) should be update.packages(checkBuilt = TRUE), which was a comment correcting a comment to the question. I flagged it as NAA. There is a comment on this answer, upvoted once (i upvoted it to twice) that states "This is not an answer to the initial question. Instead it replies to a previous comment." My flag was declined as: - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it.
  3. A question: Please help me debug my attempt to DDOS someone. I believe it came up in review. Since it was declined, I'm assuming I should have flagged it as off topic because it was asking for debugging help and not reproducible (at that time I didn't have close vote privileges), but I flagged it as needing moderator intervention, since this post was looking for help committing a crime (DDOS attacks are crimes in many jurisdictions, including the US and UK). The OP stated in a comment "i wan't to DDOS a very bad website on the darknet" (so it was clearly an attempt to commit a crime, not just for educational purposes). This flag was declined as: - flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

To sum up, I'd like to know if these flags were appropriately declined, and what the correct action would be for these posts, again: (1) a link to a sale, (2) a comment as answer with corroborating comments underneath it, (3) a request to help commit a crime.

EDIT:

After some discussion, It looks like there is consensus on (1): use Hanlon's razor, and (2): if a NAA is not obvious from the answer alone, spell it out for the moderator, (3): has resulted in some back and forth discussion. Let me summarize and update the issues for (3) here:

  1. The post has since been closed, and was then deleted by @BhargavRao. It seems like it's still an open question re: whether users should flag a post requesting help committing a crime, or only vote to close it if it has some other close reason (i.e., off topic, asking for debugging help without a mcve).
  2. The OP stated he intended to execute a DDOS, but he was stuck and wanted debugging help.
  3. DDOS attacks are illegal in the US (and other jurisdictions)
  4. Using the site to engage in illegal activity is against the Terms of Service, see Section 4, and this answer. In the linked answer, the suggestion is to flag these kinds of posts.
  5. Clear intent to commit a crime (as indicated in this post) is different from shady or possibly malicious activity (e.g., the infamous silk road post, which did not indicate intent to commit a crime, since connecting to a tor hidden service is not illegal.)
  6. Whether the correct action by a user should be to flag a post with clear intent to commit a crime, or to report a ToS violation by submitting a note to the general help desk is up in the air, and being discussed by moderators
  7. In the comments, there seems to be a suggestion that if this user had edited his question to be on topic (i.e., provide a reproducible example of the error in his DDOS attempt), it should have been re-opened, and other users should be allowed to help him with his DDOS attack here on SO.

In summary, the remaining open question is: if you see a post that declares an intent to commit a crime, what should you do? Flag it? Send a general note to the help desk? Vote to close if it only if it has other non-ToS related problems?

EDIT2:

The response to the message I sent to support was that they delete these messages and suspend the user if they continue to post this kind of question, so there's nothing else to do right now (since @BhargavRao recently deleted the question). They also suggested I flag these questions in the future:

...raise a moderator flag on the post, as they know these questions aren't allowed and should be deleted, and have all the tools to do anything we would have done in this situation.

So it sounds like moderators would like these posts to be handled by support, and support would like them to be handled by moderators.

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  • 1
    It has since been deleted so I can't link to it.. you can find the link in your flagging history. Even though it would 404 for you.. People with >10k rep and mods can see it. Would be helpful if you add that link to your question
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 6:41
  • @SurajRao Added.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 6:45
  • 2
    screenshot for <10k..It looks like an offtopic or too broad question.. Doesnt look like OP wants to promote the product. Was closed as unclear by the way
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 6:47
  • 11
    @SurajRao You don't think that was an attempt to sell the thing that was linked to or increase the page views on ebay by posting a link to a sale? It's effectively "Please help me build this thing ...BUYYOURVIAGRAHERE...
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 7:00
  • 4
    "i want to design driver for this motor but i am not able to find the type of motor. " This looks like asking for some additional info... Also OP deleted that post themselves after closure. I havent seen spammers deleting their own posts. One thing I have learnt from dealing with spams is hanlon's razor
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 7:02
  • 1
    Of course if it is a repeated behavior one could view it as an actual spammer
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 7:04
  • @SurajRao Got it. So my takeaway there is, don't flag spam unless it's only a link to a product or service. If there's any content around the product link, flag it as something else unclear or off topic - not spam.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 7:07
  • @SurajRao how about the others?
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 7:13
  • 2
    I handled the first of these flags. @SurajRao nailed it here. This really doesn't 'smell' like spam whatsoever. Assuming good intentions of the user, it has to be pretty blatant to be flagged as spam. This does really seem like a user attempting to provide information of the hardware they're having issues with, not someone aimed at promoting a product.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 8:38
  • 1
    Sometimes mods don't have the time to look at a flag, so they just decline it. Don't worry about it - if the mods don't have a problem with DDOS attacks or spam, then it is not something you need to take on. Just keep trying to be a good citizen and sometimes your flags will be accepted. Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 12:44
  • 3
    @RichardLeMesurier: A more accurate statement: Stack Overflow mods handle thousands of flags per day. If your flag isn't clear enough for the mod to figure out what you want in a reasonable time frame, it will likely be declined, and the moderator will move on to other flags.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 15:49
  • 3
    @RobertHarvey I give you the +1 for that comment, but looking at the system as a mere user the impression can appear differently. When the system requires helpful people to go to more effort than they believe they need to this is a problem. Clearly flagging something like an intentional DDOS attack was more difficult than OP thought it would be. Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 16:08
  • 1
    With your edit 2, perhaps that discussion belongs in its own post? I don't know how you'd word it to not be a duplicate, but I feel like it strays too far from "Why were these flags declined?"...
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 18:02

1 Answer 1

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I can clearly say that they were appropriately declined. I wasn't the moderator who declined them, but if I was, I would have declined them as well. Let me go through the linked examples, one by one:

  1. I agree with what Suraj has mentioned in the comments. It was clearly is a misguided user, who wanted some help designing a motor. It is a perfect example of a off topic post. This should have been voted to close as off-topic, rather than flagging as spam. A good guide to know what spam is defined as, is How not to be a spammer. Refer to What are the “spam” and “rude or abusive” (offensive) flags, and how do they work? while flagging the next time.

  2. This is a bit sad. Moderators don't see anything beyond the post text, the question title and a link to the post, while reviewing NAA flags. Given that there are potentially 100s of NAA flags in the queue, we don't open a post link. (Handling it from the queue takes around 30 seconds per post, as compared to handling it individually, which takes 2~3 minutes, wasting quite a lot of useful moderator time). While flagging a NAA, remember to follow the rules mentioned here When to flag an answer as "not an answer"?. If a NAA is non obvious from the post text itself, then use a custom flag and explain it to us as to why you are flagging it for deletion (I usually add a "the post is not an obvious NAA", while I flag these types of posts other sites).

  3. This issue was already addressed in an earlier meta discussion. See How do we handle questions that are potentially or blatantly illegal or malicious?. Usually these posts are written in a very bad manner, and are naturally off-topic. Voting to close them instead of flagging for moderator attention is the best. Ironically, another user reflagged the post asking for an explanation of why it was declined, to which I replied "It sure doesn't require intervention by moderators. It can be taken care by normal users". Moderators are exception handlers and moderator flags must be invoked only when the content needs their immediate attention.

Remember to not let declined flags doom your flagging spirit. Your ban will end soon and you'll be able to flag again. Do learn from them, and take care the next time. I am pretty sure that we all started out flagging wrongly. Good luck.

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  • 4
    Thank you. That was helpful. I'd add, re: 3, considering recent court cases in the U.S., SO may become liable for answers or comments on the site that could help a user commit a crime (under certain conditions). It sounds like there is disagreement in the community about whether these types of posts should be flagged for deletion or simply voted to close, and about whether the flag should be marked helpful. A culture that specifically discourages flagging illegal posts (by flag banning users who do that) could cause legal problems for SO.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 9:09
  • 5
    To clarify the disagreement in the communtiy answer, it says: If you come across any similar (engaging in illegal activity) content in the future, you should still flag it if the community has not already dealt with the content.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 9:25
  • 2
    @DanHall, if you see that a post has remained on site, w/o the community acting on it for more than a day or so, then do flag it. We will close and delete it then. (State clearly that "the community hasn't handled it", feel free to link this comment as well). Most of these (more than 99%) are handled almost immediately by the community. You can actually ask other users in chat. The SOCVR is a nice place for that, but please read their FAQ first).
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2018 at 23:19
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    The post in question has still not been handled by the community. It has been closed, but not deleted. It can currently be answered with a comment, and edited to restart the 9 day count, and possibly be re-opened. Do we really want requests to help commit a crime to be handled this way?
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 4:50
  • @DanHall that question will be deleted by Roomba in two days, if nobody objects. In the meantime 10k users can vote to delete immediately.
    – Samuel Liew Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 5:09
  • 3
    @SamuelLiew right, that's what I said... it hasn't been auto deleted yet, but it will be unless someone edits (including the OP) and/or votes to reopen. So you're saying that is how we want these posts handled.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 5:12
  • 1
    No no, @DanHall, you're misunderstanding Samuel. The point here is that, they should be handled by the community and not the moderators. 3 10k users is all what is needed here, and usually we leave it to the 10k users. Similarly, if a question is posted which is very clearly defined and according to the rules on SO, we would not be closing it just because the user had some malicious intent. In both cases, there's no need to flag it for moderator attention. (I deleted the question now)
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 7:55
  • 1
    @BhargavRao so if the OP came back and edited the question with a reproducible example for his bug, the question should be re-opened? It's against the SO/SE terms of service. See section 4: "Use of the Network or Services to... engage in any kind of illegal activity is expressly prohibited". The user clearly expressed intent to DDOS (not learn about DDOS attacks) and the purpose of the post was to get help with his effort to do that.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:02
  • 1
    @DanHall Well, according to my knowledge of Meta, we judge just the content of the post and not the intent. (which is why the silk route question was not closed as well). Anyway, I'll forward your question to the other moderators and let you know about the conclusion.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:06
  • 1
    @BhargavRao thanks! The answer I linked to above seemed to suggest there was a difference of opinion there. I think a moderator discussion would be helpful. If moderators aren't supposed to be alerted to terms of service violations, I'm not sure who is.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:08
  • Ah, that I can tell you directly. The community team should be alerted of any ToS violations. @DanHall. If you flag any of the other ToS to us, even we forward it to the CMs. The issue here, however is, whether posts with malicious intent, but on-topic content, is worthy of a mod flag or not (and I'm quite inclined to saying it is not).
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:13
  • How does one alert the community team?
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:14
  • @DanHall Using the /contact page (found at the bottom of every page).
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 8:15
  • 2
    @DanHall "considering recent court cases in the U.S., SO may become liable for answers or comments on the site that could help a user commit a crime (under certain conditions)" - out of curiosity, could you mention which court cases? My (layman's) understanding was always that Section 230 protected websites from liability for user-posted content, with the sole exception (recently introduced by SESTA) of content facilitating prostitution. What am I missing?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 12:43
  • 5
    @BhargavRao pinging you as you requested, to let you know I received a response from support. See EDIT2 to the original question, they suggest flagging these kinds of posts for moderators to delete.
    – De Novo
    Commented Apr 3, 2018 at 16:52

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