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The recap:

  • The low quality review queue is meant to "Identify, then improve or delete low-quality posts"
  • Spam flags are meant for post that "Exists only to promote a product or service, does not disclose the author's affiliation."

While some argument could be done by qualifying promotion as a low quality post, spam is dealt harsher than a 'mere' low quality post. Given that, most would agree that spam are a very special kind of post, that once identified, merits a whole different process to deal with it.

Yet, somehow, post deleted as the latter are used as a teaching tool for the former. That doesn't make any sense. If you want to use audits as a teaching tool, it has to teach the "right thing", ie. what is a low quality post.

The current behavior comes with several draws back:

  • Since audits teach reviewers to only delete spam, it might give the impression that only spam shall be deleted on the queue,
  • the site is best served when it can identify spam as spam, since it gives better information to deal effectively with it. The triggers of the low quality review queue are more slow and isn't really meant to stop (human) spammers but the low quality content contributor,
  • people don't read, so if something is telling you loud and clear that this is what you should be doing, is more likely to be heard since this feedback is immediate and active, unlike guidance that is more passive,
  • sensible reviewers would despise more the audit system (I don't know if it actually possible), because it forces them to do what they know is not the right thing to do.

Reiterating my previous FR request:

Don't use spam/rude deleted post as audits in the low quality review queue

Any other deleted post would do, like flagged as NAA/LQ and deleted by a moderator, or deleted by the queue (to do a nice feedback loop). We have enough posts being deleted by those reasons already. Spam is dwarfed by any other category in the Answer cup, let's use those instead of spam.

2
  • Don't they use mod-deleted posts though? I thought spam was used for Triage audits.
    – Nissa
    Commented Sep 13, 2018 at 2:11
  • @StephenLeppik no, the only criteria is why a post was deleted, not who deleted it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 13, 2018 at 2:42

1 Answer 1

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Using posts deleted for being low-quality in the Low Quality queue seems like a good idea. In fact, we already use such posts for audits... In the First Posts and Late Answers queues.

Only problem is... They're kinda hard.

Here are the failure stats for known-bad audits, by queue, over the past 90 days:

Queue             PctFailed 
----------------- --------- 
First Post        20        
Late Answer       14        
Triage            8         
Low Quality Posts 5         
Reopen Vote       4         
Close Votes       4         

Close and Reopen use... Closed posts as "known-bad". Each sees about 4% of known-bad audits failed.

Triage and Low Quality use spam-deleted posts as audits. Those see 8% and 5% failures, respectively. Since they're drawing from roughly the same pool of posts (Triage uses spam-deleted questions, LQ uses spam-deleted answers), the difference here is likely due to the difference in people reviewing in those queues - you need a reputation of at least 2K to review in Low Quality, while Triage allows folks to start reviewing at 500. With less experience on the site, it's not too surprising that folks encounter more problems recognizing problematic posts.

The last two queues, First Posts and Late Answers, are also available to folks with only 500 rep. But the failure rates there are MUCH higher than those in Triage. Note the difference between those two queues as well: Late Answers includes only LQ-deleted answers, while First Posts includes LQ-flagged questions and answers. Apparently, lousy answers are harder to identify... And of course, that's what we'd have to use in the Low Quality queue as well.

In summary: if you think folks dislike LQ audits now, you don't want to see what would happen if we implemented this.

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  • 1
    But at least the FP and LA queue are teaching the right thing: when to flag. In fact, is preferable to also use spam on the FP and LA, since that's one of the things those queue are supposed to catch. I don't mind higher failure rates if they are sensible and also a teaching moment. The only thing you teach with the spam audits on the LQRQ is that audits sucks. (btw, it also reinforces the "when in doubt, recommend delete" mentality that some people on meta seems to also complain about)
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 13, 2018 at 2:41
  • 1
    TL;dr: train reviewers to catch what they are supposed to with audits, don't put stuff that would cause cognitive dissonances in their thought process.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 13, 2018 at 2:47
  • 1
    Another thing, your numbers would be more compelling if you broke them down by action to pass the audit (either positive or negative). If people are failing audits where you have to flag to pass instead of something more positive like upvoting, I would be surprised, in which case the problem isn't that the audits we are selecting are hard, but that new reviewers kinda suck.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 13, 2018 at 2:53

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