74

I sometimes go through some of the review queues at work when I have some time left over.

Now I ran into the following review and I was a bit shocked.

Review - Warning: Image is no longer available!

Seeing that this was a test, to find out if I am still paying attention and not just clicking through, I was shocked when I clicked the link. If one of my coworkers or boss etc saw what I was looking at I would have had some explaining to do.

Why does content like that not get cleared instantly instead of being put into a review queue as a test?

Edit:

the question got marked as duplicate of: Should questions destroyed as being offensive be used as review audits?

I do not consider this solving my question, seeing that this feature or problem has not been solved still up to this day. Seeing that these sorts of audits still pop-up.

These types of audits are totally unnecessary, they should be deleted or removed permanently and not come back into the review queues.

20
  • 36
    well.. reviewing is about filtering out garbage. isnt it? what if that was an actual post and not an audit?
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:09
  • 21
    Why do reviews at work?
    – Pang
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:12
  • 8
    @SurajRao I understand that reviewing is about filtering out garbage, but this content should only be reviewed once. I consider this the worst kind of "Garbage". If the message was already deleted, it should not be put back into any review queues. The tests can also be done with less inappropriate content.
    – Granny
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:13
  • 33
    @Pang I consider this review inappropriate no matter where I am. Review's dont have to be this harsh to make it a test.
    – Granny
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:16
  • 3
    The revision history is interesting as well: stackoverflow.com/posts/48364076/revisions
    – rene
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:24
  • 4
    I just think that these sorts of reviews should be flagged so they don't go into a audits. I have no idea if there is a system for this or not but if there isn't it should be something to think about adding to it.
    – Granny
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:25
  • 5
    Or better yet, looking at stackoverflow.com/posts/48364076/timeline it's clear that even this is catching some people in audits. Someone figured it just required some editing.
    – ivarni
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:25
  • 3
    @ivarni: "inlining images is always helpful!" </s>
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:30
  • 2
    @Granny Anyway, since there's no way of flagging that (that I know of) you're in the right place. Someone will hopefully come along and fix it.
    – ivarni
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 10:39
  • 5
    I've already voiced my opinion about the atrociousness of the audit review process. Everyone seemed to be OK with it so far. Good luck getting any change here. I was told "it was worse before" and then downvoted into oblivion. Apparently "worse before" means we can't improve it anymore.
    – Jacob H
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:05
  • 4
    reopened due to the age of the duplicate, and I'm writing an answer now. Going to status-review this shortly. Hang tight folks :)
    – user50049
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:18
  • 32
    Folks, let's not blame the person that this happened to? :) Yeah, there's a part of this where one could say you see strange stuff when you moderate content, but there's also another part that says we're some of the smartest people ever gathered in one place and we should probably treat this as a problem and work on it because we can - so let's think on that side of it, if you will :)
    – user50049
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:21
  • 16
    @Emobe What I do with my free time during work is my own decision. So they would not make a problem about me being on stack-overflow moderating and what not. What they would have a problem with is the fact that i had a naked woman and a guy having sex on my screen. Because as you might know that is very inappropriate for the workplace.
    – Granny
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 15:06
  • 3
    I wouldn't put it past some people to be leaving these types of images with the specific intention of getting (re)viewers into trouble at work...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 15:10
  • 5
    If something is NSFW I don't want to see it at home either.
    – Elin
    Commented Jan 27, 2018 at 16:26

2 Answers 2

68

I'm sorry that happened to you. That wasn't what we'd want for anyone that was giving us a piece of their time, especially at work, or using a family computer in a communal space, especially if it might have triggered something as or more unpleasant than the image itself.

I'm reopening this because it's a couple of years after the last time this came up, and circumstances surrounding it might have changed. Let me start off with a tad bit of background, and I'll try to keep brevity in mind.

It's hard to get folks to select the flag that best fits what they've seen. Some flagged that as spam, some flagged it as offensive, some flagged it as very low quality. All of those flags apply, but offensive is what really needed to stand out there.

Review generates audits automatically based on what the system perceives to be consensus that something is resoundingly good or bad in the context of any given review. Because folks flag stuff so strangely, the system treats spam / offensive / very low quality as essentially the same kind of signal ("bad"). When we last ran some numbers on looking at what would happen if we dropped anything that had offensive attached to it from audits, the impact would have been enough to be considered significant.

That was a few years back, so we're going to look at it again, and I'm going to put this as being under review.

Now, until then --

If you see something that has barely more than a link to something (especially an image) - it's game over, the post is of sufficiently low quality that it should be removed, there's no reason to even follow the link, especially at work.

Concluding:

We'll do one of two things:

  • Drop posts that have abuse flags as review candidates
  • If that's just not possible, put a very clear warning that any links might not have been vetted, and might not be safe for a family or work environment (whether we show this all the time, or similarly to how we do the be careful, this could be SPAM notice will remain to be seen depending on numbers).

In any event, I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'll update on what we come up with as a fix, even if it's short-term.

22
  • 11
    This is why I'm personally not a fan of abuse flags being used on posts that don't contain shocking or hate content, but instead simply "abuse" the Q&A functionality, e.g. by posting deliberate nonsense text. The kind of stuff that belongs in audits possibly more than anything else.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:31
  • 4
    Rude or offensive flags are handled exclusively by elected mods (or auto-deleted if there are enough flags), right? So I'd argue we shouldn't be showing content identified as such to the average user regardless. After all, such flags describe the content as something a reasonable person would find inappropriate. It's not just about links, text can be found similarly offensive (and we can't exactly prevent that being seen if we're trying to use it as an audit). Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:34
  • 1
    @Dukeling: They are, if they don't accumulate on their own before we get to them.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:34
  • 2
    I was under the impression that posts with a helpful r/a flag were already supposed to be dropped from audits. In fact - I'm fairly sure I recall similar questions before where staff have said it shouldn't happen and stuff was changed (might have been animuson/shog). This isn't just some strange code regression that's happened is it? :p
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:40
  • 1
    @JonClements I can only remember talking about dropping anything with abuse attached to it and getting a little depressed to learn that people still use it more inappropriately than correctly, but I don't know if we actually pushed the change after that since the impact seemed like it would be less than trivial. I pinged Shog and we'll figure it out today and either get the regression fixed or put something else in place.
    – user50049
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:43
  • 3
    @BoltClock Shog seems to encourage abusive flags on nonsense (frankly I won't mind if audits stop getting flagged-nonsense because there are plenty other kinds of known-bad examples to catch robo reviewers)
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:46
  • 5
    @gnat: Doesn't mean I can't disagree.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:47
  • 5
    sure you can but your reasons for disagreement look rather weak. "Oh these make perfect audits"... as if other kind audits (link-only answers, thank-you dumps and questions stuffed into answer field) would fail to catch robo reviewers
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:50
  • 2
    ??? Are we moving goalposts and dropping @mentions now?
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 14:59
  • 2
    I should stick to playing board games...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 15:07
  • 7
    I agree with @BoltClock, using VLQ for gibberish and nonsense makes much more sense than abusive, in all respects other than the penalty, but IMO that should be left up to mods to determine whether it was likely to be a cat or if this user has a habit of trolling.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 15:16
  • 2
    @TinyGiant while nice in theory this approach won't scale (it probably worked fine in the past, like 5-6 years ago)
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 15:48
  • 14
    @gnat: It does seem to me that we should have separate flag options for "this is nonsense / gibberish" and "this is toxic / NSFW and nobody should have to look at it", because those two kinds of posts need different handling: in particular, the former is not urgent, can be handled by review and even makes a decent audit, whereas the latter should be nuked ASAP, hidden by default even from 10k rep users and never, ever used as an audit. [...] Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 16:36
  • 3
    [...] Now, we can argue about what those flags should be called, and how exactly the system should handle them, but it seems to me that the existing VLQ and abusive flags would at least be pretty close, if only the flag dialog provided clearer instructions on how to choose between them. (And, having said that, I'm the first to admit that I just recently went against my own advice above and flagged a nonsense post as abusive. But I only did that because I checked meta and found Shog's post saying that I should.) Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 16:36
  • 3
    @gnat as far as I can tell it has never been forbiddden to use the VLQ flag for absolute unarguable garbage (gibberish and nonsense qualify just like non english posts). It has just been encouraged to use an r/a flag mainly because 6 flags gets it gone quick while VLQ flags require more revew and take longer.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 18:07
42

As of today (December 14, 2018), any validated "rude or abusive" flags on a post will make that post ineligible for use as a "known-bad" audit in either the Triage or the Low Quality review queues.

Additionally, I've added checks to ensure that only posts which were actually deleted by the system in response to spam flags are used for this purpose - this should avoid situations where posts deleted for other reasons (for instance, due to the destruction of their author's account) are used. Such posts are often offensive, confusing or otherwise misleading in the context of an audit, and thus relying on confirmed spam should avoid some unnecessary distress for reviewers here.

See also: Should this audit be removed?

8
  • excellent news.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 16:38
  • 1
    So, does this separate spam and R/A flags?
    – EKons
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 11:47
  • 5
    They've always been separate, @ekons. They're just treated as equivalent in many places; this is no longer one of those places.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 15:55
  • Why not use NAA/VLQ in the low quality queue? At the end of the day, these are the kind of post that enter on the queue, no?
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 1, 2019 at 14:16
  • You've asked that before, @braiam
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 1, 2019 at 14:45
  • BTW, I've asked a FR about this meta.stackexchange.com/q/238647/213575
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 1, 2019 at 15:26
  • There's a feature request on Meta.SE asking that this same exclusion be implemented on audits in all the other review queues as well, not just the two here. However, a staff member commented that the request was more involved than initially suspected, and marked it as deferred. In your opinion, why is this more difficult to implement on other review queues than the ones here?
    – gparyani
    Commented Feb 25, 2021 at 19:09
  • No idea, @gparyani. My guess would be, the request itself isn't substantially different but rather the logic that would need to be changed is: Triage and LQ both have unique logic for generating audits, and both are significantly different from that used for First Posts and Late Answers. IOW, would require careful modifications to the queries, not just applying the same patch already applied to the two queues mentioned.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 25, 2021 at 21:11

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .