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I just received this audit in the Low quality posts:

Screenshot

I noticed that it looked like an audit, so I double-checked the question and saw that the answer was already deleted. So yes, that's an audit, easy peasy, I passed it.

However, if that wasn't an audit but an actual review, I would have chosen the Looks OK option. It may not be a great answer, but it's still an attempt to solve the issue asked... that's what downvotes are for; not deletion. Am I right, or did I overlook something?

The answer had -3 score, somebody probably flagged it as Not an answer... and the author decided to remove it due to the -3 (which probably auto-accepted the NAA flags?). Still... I don't think that's an answer which merits deletion - unless the author decides so. Posts removed by their own author shouldn't be used as audits. It's not like we don't have any other deleted garbage to show in the audits...

I am aware of this almost exact question, however, in that case, the answer had a SPAM flag too... which I don't think is the case here (the answer doesn't even include any links). But anyway, I wouldn't have chosen that post for a review, either.

3 Answers 3

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If I understand it correctly posts with inaccurate flags are self-deleted causing people to fail audits, requiring action by moderators to override the failed audit - which seems like non-productive use of their time.

There seems to be two simple solutions:

  • Validate the flags to ensure that the audits are correct. But this means spending reviewer time on posts that are already deleted for one reason or another in order to figure out why they were deleted to use them in audits. That seems like non-productive use of our time.
  • Remove these cases from the audit. And the simplest criteria as indicated in the question are all self-deleted posts - since if the flag is validated the post should be deleted by others.

A non-simple solution would be to only use them for audits if they were flagged multiple times.

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  • Reviewing spam flags on deleted posts isn't necessarily a waste of time. People posting spam typically post more than one spam post, so it's often worth moderator attention to look for either other spam from the same account, or spam from other accounts from the same person. It's not a high priority flag compared to many other types of flags, but there are still decent odds that there's something for a mod to do.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 14:56
  • Do spammers self-delete their posts? I could imagine them doing it as a way of flying below the radar, but I have not seen any indication that it is the case. Thus multiple spam-flags self-deleted posts for one person is worth investigating, but a single self-deleted post flagged as spam is not. Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:22
  • I've seen actual spammers self deleting before to avoid detection, but not a whole lot. Although a moderator could probably comment better on how frequent it really is.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:40
  • IF the moderators look through these self-deleted posts. But in that case it seems we could use the moderation-result to validate the spam-flag. Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:57
  • That's correct.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:58
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however, in that case, the answer had a SPAM flag too... which I don't think is the case here

It's the case here.

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    How is that answer spam? What part of that answer is spammy? There's no link, and no suggestion of a commercial solution. Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 16:00
  • 4
    @RobertColumbia Why ask me? I didn't flag it.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 16:04
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    Thanks for clarifying that, Servy. At least it explains why the post ended up in that queue. I guess the real problem here is the spam flag, not the audit selection algorithm. But I still think that self deleted posts should never be used as an audit. The post wasn't deleted as the result of community moderation, which is exactly what we are trying to audit.
    – AJPerez
    Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 16:42
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    @RobertColumbia Servery was stating that the answer had a spam flag, not that it was spam, the quote was "however, in that case, the answer had a SPAM flag too... which I don't think is the case here", objectively the case was that it had a spam flag.
    – Krupip
    Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 17:40
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I don't think excluding self-deleted answers from audit selection is helpful. If the answer would otherwise qualify for being an audit, I think that who deleted it is irrelevant.

Let's consider a typical self-deletion scenario. Suppose a new user posts a non-answer (maybe it should have been a comment but they don't have the rep) and it gets a bunch of downvotes and some NAA flags/votes. They delete their answer, get a badge for deleting it, and hopefully learn from their mistake. This is a perfectly reasonable post to use for an audit, since it got NAA flags and was deleted. It doesn't matter who actually deletes non-answers because non-answers deserve deletion.

Or consider a situation when a user posts a real answer, but that answer gets downvoted because it is wrong. If our review is appropriate, no one will flag this legitimate attempt. This means that if the author self-deletes, it won't be selected as an audit because it didn't have any flags on it when it was deleted. Here, self-deletion is also irrelevant because of the lack of flags.

And as Servy points out, the problem with this specific audit isn't the audit selection algorithm, but rather that this legitimate answer attempt got an inappropriate spam flag. I think that addressing poor flagging is the better approach to solving this problem. If you have some supporting data that self-deleted answers are disproportionately likely to be bad audits, then maybe your feature is worth pursuing. Otherwise, I think this isn't a good idea.

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    My point is, we don't know why the author decided to remove a post. Maybe peer presure, maybe to avoid the downvotes, maybe because of the NAA flags and he learned of his mistake. Maybe. We don't know. On the other hand, with posts deleted by our moderation, we know the reason for deletion. Everybody reviewing the LQP queue should be able to identify these cases, since that's the task they are doing. So... why don't we use only that ones for the audits? We have plenty of them, we don't need to include self deletions too.
    – AJPerez
    Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 18:43
  • @AJPerez that's irrelevant. If an author self-deleted without their answer getting flags, it won't be an audit for VLQ. Who deleted it doesn't matter. All that matters is that there are validated flags.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 12, 2018 at 19:06
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    Yes... there are validated flags, but they may be wrongly validated flags :)
    – AJPerez
    Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:49
  • How is this different from the case where reviewers mess up the review and also wrongly validate a flag? Are you making the argument that self-deletions wrongly validate at an unacceptably high rate? If so please include backing data. Again, my answer suggests that we fix the real underlying problem of bad flagging. Audit selection is as good as the data it's given.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 15:52
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    The difference is that deletion from non-author normally require multiple reviewers, or a highly trusted reviewer/moderator. Thus a single bad reviewer will normally not cause wrong validation. The author of the self-deleted post seem less worthy of trust. Commented Feb 13, 2018 at 16:39
  • @ryanyuyu your last comment resumes to: Let's try to fix this much harder problem, instead of fixing this easier one. The simple counterargument is that these problems are non exclusive: We can still work on strategies to mitigate bad flagging, even after applying the OP's suggested solution. Commented Feb 15, 2018 at 12:44
  • It can also be argued that bad flagging is inherently impossible to solve completely. Humans are responsible for flagging, and humans are subject to errors. This may be for many reasons: Unfamiliarity with the rules, bad humor, or even just a "brain fart". Since this problem is already impossible to solve, let's apply some workarounds that may help with edge cases. I think this is one of them. Commented Feb 15, 2018 at 12:49

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