There's been a lot of talk lately about the state of Stack Overflow, sparked by this blog entry that levies this charge
Stack Overflow is intended to be an inclusive place where every programmer can participate. But it’s built on mechanics and norms that push people away if they don’t know the ins-and-outs. Too often, someone comes here to ask a question, only to be told that they did it wrong. They get snarky or condescending comments for not explaining what they’ve tried (that didn’t work). They get an answer… but the answerer gets scolded for “encouraging ‘low-quality’ questions.” They get downvoted, but don’t know why, or called lazy for not speaking English fluently. Or sometimes, everything actually goes well, and they get an answer! So they thank the poster… only to be told that on Stack Overflow, “please” and “thank you” are considered noise. All these experiences add up to making Stack Overflow a very unwelcoming place for far too many.
This isn't a new charge. It's been bandied about for years. Sooner or later, newbies get frustrated with the site and leave, with some parting shot of "the elitist, angry, frustrating (sometimes sexist/racist)" Stack Overflow (link was on the blog author's Twitter). I know I'm not alone when I scratch my head at this.
I'm a bit discouraged by the attitude toward moderation in the blog post. Moderation on SO often feels like a losing battle against the flood of low-quality questions, and Jay's statement that our moderation efforts "make [him] sad" is honestly really frustrating.
As someone who has grown into the latter roles of SO, let me take a step back and explain the type of culture that SO fosters. I hope that it better explains the "other side" of SO. It's easy to assume what is mean is, in reality, part of the functioning of the site.
There are two camps on SO (they are not mutually exclusive):
Helpers
These are your people who answer questions. By default, everyone starts in this camp. You want to help people and SO has no shortage of them. Helping people is what SO is about.
Curators
If you help enough people, you get reputation, which then translates into moderation. But moderation isn't the right term for this camp. When people think of moderators, they tend to think of police or authority figures. Most people only see moderators when they've done something wrong.
Curation is a better term. A curator is someone who looks for what should and shouldn't be here. A good museum, for instance, has a curator to decide what should and shouldn't be presented and how. A curator isn't mean; they just want people to come in and have a positive experience. That means (what has become a somewhat dirty word) discriminating against content that's not necessarily bad, but distracting from people enjoying the curated items.
Cynicism vs Always Helping
For the most part, Helpers and Curators work side-by-side. Curators have nothing against Helpers. This describes how SO should work. Helpers answer good questions, Curators remove the bad. Sooner or later, appreciative Helpers who have earned privileges start helping with curation and become Curators too.
Extremes are where we always see the flashpoints on this issue.
Helpers can become Always Helpers. They believe that every question deserves an answer. That's what SO is for, right? So they made a typo? Give an answer. They just described a general programming idea without any code? Give an answer. Homework dump? Give an answer. The rules don't matter, just help everyone. And they get Internet Points for doing it. What was the downside again?
Curators, on the other hand, have to fight cynicism. This tweet typifies the cynical curator
I have no idea who made this comment, but it's not terrible, it's just really, really terse (I'm sure mods could come up with far worse). Still, if you've just posted the question, this could easily be viewed as unkind or mean. Yes, they told you what the problem is but in a not-so-nice way. It's dripping with cynicism.
Why is there so much cynicism?
There's several reasons, but to list a few
- No real attempts to answer the question first - That's part of what frustrates curators. How many times does the same question about the same error message need to be asked?
- Moderation is almost always viewed negatively - There's nothing like having your question closed to bring out the snark, colorful language and even revenge downvoting
- Help Vampires - A help vampire wants to be spoon-fed an answer. You're trying to teach them to fish, but they want you to give them a fish. Fed by the Always Help crowd, they have no incentive to pay attention to the rules
The problem is that the post that should be closed and downvoted was instead answered (three times) and upvoted, until the meta effect kicked in. Clearly these tools aren't sufficient to deal with this problem.
So let's circle back to our terse 100k user. Imagine that they've spent a day trying to help people and along comes yet another user who just dumps some code and an error. I can't blame them for feeling a bit irritated. With SO getting some 6000 questions a day, there's more than a few cynical curators out there not doing the best job (I can think of a few who even got banned for clashing over their cynicism). I'm not excusing their behavior, but it's not hard to see why, if you ask a poor question, it sometimes means cynical comments, downvotes and closure.
Fighting cynicism
First off, we need to appreciate what curators do. Curation is a largely thankless (and often transparent) job. That's what the blog missed. Think about this
- When was the last time you saw spam on the site remain for a long time? A major reason it dies so fast is the good folks over at Charcoal have developed a pretty good system to catch it so anyone getting notices can flag it
- Low quality answers and bad comments? There's a crew working with mods on that.
- Closures and question/tag cleanup? SOCVR
Sometimes there's a public acknowledgement of what they do, but I'm willing to bet a lot of people are only hearing about them for the first time here. If you heard about them after only reading the blog, you might think they are filled with mean people and you'd be wrong. Too many people want to see said curation ended already and the blog didn't help that sentiment.
Second, if you've never tried curation, now is a good time to start. If you have at least 500 rep, you can do some reviews. Even if you only have 15 rep, you can still flag questions for review and closure (too few low-rep people know about that last one). A few days in the queues and it will change your perspective on how SO works.
Third, listen to the curators. Even when cynical, they're seldom doling out bad advice. If they suggest improvement, at least give it a whirl. Too many people get negative comments and just give up. You'd be amazed how taking criticism can transform your question and get you the help you need.
Fourth, talk to the curators. All of the above curation rooms can be used to discuss their actions, or similar actions by others. SOCVR has been known to reopen questions from time to time. Meta is another place to discuss problems.
Fifth, we should probably start flagging snarky comments as no longer needed
. They're not rude (i.e. personal attacks), but not helpful either. Help remind curators that they want to improve the site, not tear users down. But don't take comments like I showed above as rude. There's no personal attacks, just a brusque correction. If you want to make it friendlier, leave a friendly comment.
Lastly, understand that curators are human too. Sometimes curators get it wrong, which is why there's nothing much a non-mod can do that is irreversible. The curation teams I mentioned above all understand that, and they all aspire to the highest levels of accountability. If there's a problem, bring it to their attention and discuss it.
tl;dr
? Help a brother out!Fifth, we should probably start flagging snarky comments as no longer needed. They're not rude (i.e. personal attacks), but not helpful either.
We need to define snarky. I flag as "Not Needed" many comments like the ones in the tweet, some worse, but they are declined. Mods and users need to be on the same page.