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It's been 10 months since I joined Stack Overflow, and I have learned the greatness of the sentence

Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example please.

in various comments to new questions from new users like me.

In order for a question to be considered good here on Stack Overflow an MCVE is one of the requirements (if we can not reproduce the problem, then how can we solve it?), so I started to locate the problems I had and tried to make them reproducible and by then I could already see the answer.

For example, two weeks ago I had a problem that was about blurring a Bitmap where a routine failed to blur a runtime-created bitmap, but it succeeded when blurring a bitmap loaded from a file.

After locating the problem and making a good MCVE for my non-asked question, I realized that the function has nothing to do with it and it must be something in the bitmap I'm creating which was true. The created bitmap was a 32-bit pixel format and the routine worked only with a 24-bit pixel format. The problem was solved, no time got wasted on waiting for an answer, and every one was happy.

So I want to suggest to add a link in the Asking section in the help center.

Which is titled

What should I do before asking here?

That would describe the usefulness of the above and other things as well.

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    Don't we already cover that here stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-ask and expand on it in the links at the bottom of that page. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 2:08
  • 1
    @RobertLongson What I'm suggesting is to teach new users that the MCVE is their way to avoid asking at all. I could guarantee that if you succeeded in making an MCVE you will either find a bug in the library you are using or find the solution to your problem. most of the questions here can be avoided by doing this and letting the room for very good questions to show up. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 2:24
  • 1
    A good way to teach that is to ask for it, not answer until you get it, and see if the asker deletes or answers their own question in the meantime. Sending them to docs is not really an effective way to do that.
    – Elin
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 2:28
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    If your first sentence is just telling people to ignore the title, then your title should be changed. Please don't intentionally use non-descriptive titles on Meta. They're very annoying and only make it difficult for users to gauge their interest in the topic. I'm sure you could come up with a much better one.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 2:51
  • @animuson done, if it can be better than this please tell me. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 3:01
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    Relevant: Only debugging style questions explicitly require code
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 4:55
  • @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout Even better than making this prominent in the help center would be to give that to new users as a template sentence in their "blank" question page.
    – user0042
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 11:25
  • @user0042 I added this to the post. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 11:53
  • @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout Cool, THX. I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe new questioners are already given a question template with <!-- HTML comments --/>. At least I've seen these comments when editing questions.
    – user0042
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 11:54
  • @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout I hope you're OK with my editing.
    – user0042
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 12:04
  • @user0042 It's OK man. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 12:09
  • Rubber duck debugging :-)
    – QHarr
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 20:05
  • or maybe meta.stackoverflow.com/q/357951/1739000
    – NH.
    Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 22:20
  • @NH. it has nothing to do with the wizard. I'm posting this to share a successful experience with new users (coders) here on Stack Overflow. the last title might emplied that but it is not Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 23:10
  • @NasreddineAbdelillahGalfout, if this post is just to share a successful experience, why does it have the feature-request tag?
    – NH.
    Commented Jan 3, 2018 at 0:13

2 Answers 2

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Two things here.

First, we do a lot in the way of educating any interested user into what an MCVE is, and what role is serves. However, note that the operative word is "interested"; if the OP only wants an answer to their question, they'll pay lip service only to our pleas in asking for this four-letter thing that attracts a lot of negative attention if it's missing.

Second, and this is important: not every question needs an MCVE. Your suggestion, while lighthearted and good-natured, does nothing to strike a balance for those questions who really don't warrant an MCVE at all versus those that do.


Honestly I wish we could abandon the MCVE moniker outright, and get to the actual crux of the problem: if your question doesn't have enough details for me to answer it, it'll get closed until it does.

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    Related, and further explanation of Makoto's second point that "Not every question needs an MCVE": Is it always a good idea to demand the OP “post some code”?
    – Davy M
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 6:38
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    We really need to do something about that behavior of new OPs to prevent them asking for coding errors without giving a [MCVE]. Almost all of my close votes I have at hand daily are going that direction. After longer discussions it mostly turns out these questions addressed to fix simple typos, common misconceptions or using undefined behavior (not to mention dupes from the several language-tag FAQs). We need to notify new users about these things prominently!
    – user0042
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 12:14
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    @user0042 I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. That is by far not the main issue. The main issue that I see nowadays is people spending their energy attempting to and succeeding in closing questions that have no business being closed, while questions that are more deserving of closure slip through the cracks. The vast majority of questions fitting the former category that I see tend to be closed as missing an MCVE when they do not require one. I agree with Makato that we need to drop the insistence on MCVE's, and just ask that the asker include enough information to answer the question.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 16:50
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    Agreement on disagreement is just fine ;-)
    – user0042
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 17:17
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    @user0042: I'm taking the side of Tiny Giant here as well. Preventing someone from asking a question is, well, physically impossible. Educating them is vital. Saying "MCVE" as a rallying cry or scapegoat is actively harmful.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 17:46
  • @Makoto I'm in. This is far better than what I'm asking. Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 23:28
  • The second paragraph of this answer should be a watermark that loads every single time users load the SO site/app for the first time each day. And every hour after that.
    – Confused
    Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 7:04
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    "get to the actual crux of the problem: if your question doesn't have enough details" But the MCVE close reason is one particular way in which a question can be lacking enough detail. I think it's preferable to be detailed about the reason. The problem isn't the MCVE reason itself; it is systemic: MCVE is quite effective and we have very few effective tools, so people start overfitting it to questions in an effort to deal with being overwhelmed. Getting rid of it wouldn't solve this; another reason would just become distorted and overused. Compare the old "lacks minimal understanding".
    – jscs
    Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 22:04
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    @JoshCaswell "Getting rid of it wouldn't solve this; another reason would just become distorted and overused." The "easy/effective close tools that get stretched too far" problem seems to have been a part of SO since day one. "Lacks minimal understanding", "too localized", "not a real question", and some interpretations of "too broad" come to mind. I'd like to interpret this as well meaning, overwhelmed users that are occasionally reviewing posts that they have insufficient domain knowledge in - I haven't been able to think of a good solution for this. Maybe the site outgrew its tools.
    – jrh
    Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 22:14
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    @jrh "Maybe the site outgrew its tools." Yup, that's been my opinion for a while.
    – jscs
    Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 22:16
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    @JoshCaswell I don't think Makato is suggesting the removal of the close reason you're referring to, but rather an end to the pattern of knee-jerk requests for an MCVE for every question asked. We need to focus on requesting that askers include the information necessary to answer the question, whatever that may be; but we also need to stop and ask ourselves if what we're asking of the user is actually necessary to answer the question. Keep in mind that the reason you're referring to is for debugging questions that are lacking enough information to answer, not just missing MCVE's.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 3, 2018 at 0:09
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    Also keep in mind that non-debugging style questions can also suffer from lacking necessary information to answer, in which case the "Unclear" close reason would be used. The only real difference between the two close reasons is that the debugging reason contains specific advice for debugging questions. Again though, we need to make sure that the information that is lacking is actually necessary.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 3, 2018 at 0:11
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    @TinyGiant "I don't think Makato is suggesting the removal of the close reason you're referring to" Well, perhaps I misunderstood. "an end to the pattern of knee-jerk requests for an MCVE for every question asked [...] the reason you're referring to is for debugging questions" Absolutely; I agree with you on this (and upvote your comments on the topic). I wasn't trying to say that we should use the MCVE reason where it doesn't apply, just that it does get used that way. And that is most definitely a problem, but the problem is not the reason itself.
    – jscs
    Commented Jan 3, 2018 at 1:07
-3

I believe that's a broader problem than just addressing the [MCVE].

I'm not a 100% sure, but when editing I already seen new users questions which seem to had an initial "blank" question template with guiding points as HTML comments to fill out (I'm not sure how far this idea was realized).

Anyways we should give new users some prominent guidance what is required to ask valid questions at Stack Overflow. As obviously nothing from the help center or taking the tour seems to work, we should provide the information what's essential for asking as a kind of check list for new users (below a certain rep level maybe):

<!-- Please read the following thoroughly before posting your question, 
     and be sure to meet all of these points:

 Questions that shouldn't be asked here

1. Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?")
   must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and 
   the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. 
   Questions without a clear problem statement are not useful to other 
   readers. 
   See: How to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example 
                (https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve).

2. Questions about a problem that can no longer be reproduced or that 
   was caused by a simple typographical error. 
   While similar questions may be  on-topic here, these are often 
   resolved in a manner unlikely to help future readers. 
   This can often be avoided by identifying and closely inspecting the 
   shortest program necessary to reproduce the problem before 
   posting. (https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve)

3. Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the 
   work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description
   of the difficulty you are having solving it.

4. Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software 
   library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for
   Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. 
   Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it 
   (https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/254393/what-exactly-is-a-recommendation-question).

5. Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for 
   Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for 
   programming.

6. Questions on professional server, networking, or related infrastructure 
   administration are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly 
   involve programming or programming tools.

 --

 ... Maybe more excerpts from the help center ...

-->
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    There are some experiments with this going on already. I really don't think a giant bullet list is going to help matters much since that's a lot of stuff I have to hit CTRL + A and Backspace to get rid of all of a sudden.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 1, 2018 at 17:47
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    What you have there is not a template (since there's nothing to fill it), but rather details about how to ask a good question, and it thus does not belong in the question itself, but rather somewhere like the How To Ask page (which is similar to what's shown to new users when they ask their first question). Although I'm all for trying to improve the How To Ask page. Commented Jan 2, 2018 at 10:56

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