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I've been coming across several cases recently where it's quite transparent that someone serially upvoted their own questions or asked people to do so to evade a post ban.

Now, I know that when a serial voting reversal or user removed deletion happens, the reputation gained is lost immediately and the post score will update once it is expanded the next time to also reflect the reversal.

My question now is:

  • Assume someone serially upvoted some of their questions. All of those are long answered or closed and haven't seen activity in quite a while
  • Assume nobody expands the votes on them to update the post score for a long time (or ever) since these questions are uninteresting and have no significant activity

Does the automated question/answer ban mechanism calculate with the "real" updated score in mind or can someone essentially stave off getting question or answer banned by serially upvoting a bunch of their bad posts and counting on them never getting any further attention that could "fix" the post score, even if their serial voting is reversed as usual?

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  • I would assume a serial voting reversal triggers a rep recalculate on all affected posts / users. I'm pretty sure this includes a "Post ban" check.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 6:57
  • @Cerbrus Maybe it happens like a day later then, because the displayed post score doesn't fix itself automatically, from what I experienced so far. Expanding the votes on a particular post does, though
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:00
  • Refreshing the page doesn't update the score? Then maybe my assumption isn't correct...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:02
  • 2
    @Cerbrus No, doesn't. In fact, I've come back some time later to check on how my flags were doing and saw some posts that still had the upvotes sometimes hours later until I expanded the post score once. After that though, even with reload the score seems fixed.
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:03
  • 1
    "ban is applied when a user who qualifies for it tries to ask a question. Until that point, they're like that cat in a box, both banned and unbanned..." To me this means, (semi-)smart fraudster would cast a bunch of sock upvotes and ask question immediately. If they were really smart they would additionally use few tricks (partly publicly explained here) to avoid triggering serial reversal script and possible further account suspension
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:24
  • @gnat I may or may not come across 10-15 of these "tricksters" every week
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:37
  • 2
    I really don't understand the question here. The automatic question ban algorithm takes into account the real score of the users' questions, which means that invalidated/reversed votes are obviously not taken into account.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 9:46
  • 2
    @CodyGray Are you sure? That's exactly what I'm asking. I have a sneaking suspicion that the fact that you need to expand the usercard for the score to update means that it's not updating the "real" score until someone does that.
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 9:48
  • 1
    There certainly might be a new bug, but vote invalidation is supposed to trigger a rep recalculation. I'm not sure what you mean by "expand the usercard". Hovering over the usercard doesn't invoke any kind of rep recalculation. All it might do is force updated information to be fetched from the server, replacing what might be cached in your browser. If these are users with expandable usercards, though, the question ban might not be kicking in because of their reputation levels. Not sure, you'd have to flag some for investigation.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 10:37
  • @CodyGray I don't mean the usercard, that was a inaccurate description from me. I mean expand the votes on any given post to show the vote breakdown. You can test this yourself. Delete someone's sockpuppet account and then check one of the posts that were voted on. Then expand the votes on that post and check again. Even if you reload multiple times, the serial votes won't be gone from the post until you or someone else expanded the votes on that post
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 10:38
  • @Magisch, but when a user is deleted you lose whatever rep you gained from their upvotes. I don't understand. Are you saying the rep and/or vote count remains unchanged?
    – Chris
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 10:47
  • 1
    @Chris Yes, the reputation is lost instantly. However the post score won't update until someone expands it (thats a 1000 rep privilege IIRC). I'm concerned that the non-updated post score is what the post ban algo calculates with, which would make it trivially easy to game yourself out of a post ban with no way for CMs or mods to do anything about it sans manually expanding every post every time.
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 10:50
  • 1
    The score on a post may be cached, but it is updated under multiple scenarios: clicking on the score (+1000 privilege), upvoting or downvoting (you can undo immediately, of course), and automated processes. I don't know how long it takes, but for vote invalidations I've checked, the posts involved eventually have their scores updated without clicking on the score or votes taking place.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 11:39
  • "upvoted their own questions" (with a sock puppet, I assume) - I don't see how serial vote reversal is relevant in that case at all. Sock puppet voting rings warrant a moderator flag for immediate banning.
    – Bergi
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 21:42

1 Answer 1

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First of all, question bans are not based on the post score that is cached. I know this because I've seen question-bans return immediately after a vote invalidation.

Next, I'm pretty sure there is an automated process that updates cached post scores after vote invalidations. It just takes a while. You can help speed up the process by:

  • Clicking on the post score to see the break-down (+1000 rep privilege or user script)
  • Voting (up- or downvotes). You can undo the vote again if you want.
1
  • 2
    First of all, question bans are not based on the post score that is cached. I know this because I've seen question-bans return immediately after a vote invalidation. that was the answer I was looking for. Thank you :)
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 11:54

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