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TL;DR:

Today we launched a new mobile app specifically for Stack Overflow. It lets you view, post, vote, and comment on Stack Overflow questions and answers. Download links are included in this post.

Huh? Don’t we already have a mobile app?

Alert readers may notice that you can already do all of those things on the Stack Exchange app for iOS and Android, for Stack Overflow and for 175 other Q&A communities. This new app has just about the same functionality, but it’s available for folks who just want a Stack Overflow mobile experience (or who search their respective app marketplace for “Stack Overflow”). We hope this will make it more straightforward for developers who don’t use Stack Exchange much to read, write, and manage programming questions and answers on mobile.

If you’re interested, both the iOS and Android versions are available today:

To learn more about the app’s features, read our blog post.

Feedback on the existing Stack Exchange apps should continue to live on MSE. But, please report bugs and request features for the new Stack Overflow apps here on MSO:

Bug reports and the like should become their own questions in those tags, but we welcome general questions and feedback about the concept of the Stack Overflow app in the comments and answers on this one. What do you think?

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    So, is this simply a branding issue, or are there any other reasons to split the apps this way? And do you expect the features of the apps to diverge? Commented May 16, 2017 at 13:36
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    And the old app? Not a single bug was fixed in over a year, not a single request was done, or even responded to. 100% ignore rate. (android app only, iOS app does have a developer) Commented May 16, 2017 at 13:37
  • 54
    That's because the app just stinks. Man do I love this network of sites, but come on - the app is just no good. I know it's a "only enough humans to go around" thing, but don't you guys think diverting even one or two more people to help you could work wonders? Commented May 16, 2017 at 13:44
  • 47
    We want a chat on mobile. We started working on an Android version, but an official one would be incredible.
    – Tristan
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 14:31
  • 19
    The chat on mobile would be awesome.
    – CptEric
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 14:35
  • 82
    As for iOS, wouldn't it have been easier to add "Stack Overflow" to the keywords of the Stack Exchange app listing instead of creating a new app?
    – paulvs
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 15:17
  • 52
    Installed it, found no way to filter questions by favorite tags. Uninstalled.
    – T J
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 16:01
  • 50
    Why should anyone be at least 17 years to download this app?How are my future kids supposed to learn?
    – LC 웃
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 16:53
  • 117
    I think the whole "app" thing is silly. Just make good mobile sites, I shouldn't have to leave my browser to do every little silly thing in a much worse way. It's rare I ever use a websites app for anything unless it has functionality that utilizes the actual hardware features of the phone, like streamlining photos with the camera in the Ebay app or fingerprinting for banking. In general the whole make apps out of everything sucks. Let me stay in the browser where I can do all the things. The app has to be better than the website for me to use it!!!
    – Caimen
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 20:50
  • 75
    From the blog; "For now, the two apps have nearly identical functionality.". It took one year to essentially rename the app, with no improvements? Why not fix the SE app and tag it with stackoverflow when publishing..?
    – Rob Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 2:23
  • 36
    @Shashanth First time seeing this a moderators post was massively down voted. you should have been here when Jeff Atwood, our founding father, was still around :D :D :D
    – Pekka
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 7:47
  • 60
    I don't think people are annoyed that we have a mobile app, I think they're annoyed we have ANOTHER mobile app that doesn't actually bring anything new (in fact it actually has less features) than the current one on the app stores - plus while they've released this stripped down version of the app for branding issues, they've still yet to fix a lot of the now 'old' version of the android app which is not getting updated. This is from what I've gathered so far though and not in any way throwing my own opinion out there @Pekka웃
    – Albzi
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 8:10
  • 31
    So let me get this straight, instead of fixing and improving the existing app you're just going to build a new app that just does SO? That's as infuriating as when Facebook ripped out messaging and forced people to use Messenger. I will not use this app strictly out of principle. Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:00
  • 24
    I'm with a lot of people here. 1) Fix SE app first; seriously at least respond to requests. 2) If SE was working 100% why would we even need a SO app? 3) Are we going to get hundreds of site specific apps now? That seems like a waste of resources to me. Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:52
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    Case in point, nearly a year ago, I was told that there was internal work being done to improve the Ask Question page. Yet no changes have been released, nor has there been any further attempt to solicit input from the community. From my perspective, it looks like you guys no longer care about improving Stack Overflow, which I can't help but interpret as a very strong signal about your respect for veteran contributors and the things they think are critically important.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 6:13

16 Answers 16

228

I hate to say this but...

I stopped using the SE app some time back. The app experience is geared towards Q&A and that ecosystem. That's good. But to try and do anything else ranges from confusing to downright terrible. Chat isn't available. Moderation is often an afterthought.

I found the mobile version of the website to be far superior. I can see Close votes again. I can use Chat. Unless this improves on that, I won't be using it.

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  • 12
    Which means the app is not needed right ? They should scrap it ? Commented May 16, 2017 at 17:40
  • 31
    @HtmlTosin I'm saying that the app could be made out of HTML5 and do at least the same job the website does. Right now the app tries to recreate them from scratch
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 17:50
  • 4
    Actually, the app uses the API, which uses far less data than mobile. But, I digress. The only think I miss on the app is the reopen and duplicates.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 19:10
  • 64
    This. As a moderator the only thing the app is useful for is the notifications/pings. Everything else (including chat) goes through Chrome for mobile. SE/SO app should be geared toward power users, and power users already know that SO is part of SE. Fix the app's usefulness, you'll fix the app's download stats. Commented May 16, 2017 at 20:51
  • 16
    I do use the app, but only so I can see notifications for messages. And recently the feed refresh has been.. hit and miss. Everything else while on the phone is done in the mobile web view (with occasional forays into the desktop view if I need to see moderator-specific stuff).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 10:43
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    @MartijnPieters So it is a pager, not an app. Welcome to the 90s! Commented May 17, 2017 at 12:21
  • 2
    @Mat'sMug It depends how we're defining "power users", but I don't think we'll ever be able to justify a whole mobile team on an app used only by a small number of power users. Flip it around the other way: if we had 3-4 devs to throw at problems for power users, we would not decide that their top priority was building an app. To justify native mobile apps, we have to find a bigger audience for them.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 14:30
  • 16
    @DavidFullerton fair enough, but how do you collect usage stats on features that aren't implemented? what's the average reputation score of SE app users? do they have access to review queues? edit privs? close vote privs? trusted user privs? do they have notifications enabled? FWIW your power users are the bread & butter of this website, without them EVERYTHING falls apart. Who cares if a million 1-rep fly-by askers download the app every day? Shouldn't the users you're doing this for be the users that stick around and can/want-to help with content moderation? Commented May 17, 2017 at 15:14
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    I mean I want to use the app - but I constantly have to switch back to Chrome because too many features are missing. So I end up with the app running in the background buzzing me when I get a ping, which I handle in the browser because if I handle it in the app I'll be switching to the browser anyway because the ping came from SE chat or requires me to take an action that's not implemented in the app. This makes the SO app completely redundant, at least from my perspective. Not going to run 2 apps on my phone just to get the exact same notifications I'd get with the SE app. Commented May 17, 2017 at 15:18
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    @DavidFullerton Look at what the users are saying on this post though. We are asking how nearly a year was justified to create a near duplicate application. We are throwing shade at that effort because we've posted bug reports that have been ignored, we've asked for more functionality, access to moderation tasks, and mobile chat all via your existing application. An application that supports the entire network. These are features your existing user base wants and bugs we have reported. Instead of focusing on that, we were given a less functional duplicate.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:01
  • 18
    @DavidFullerton I really really hope that what you learn from this should be that you need to fix the bugs. You are effectively ignoring some of your most important user base, which is something that the company keeps saying they don't do, but then .... they do.
    – Ajean
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:16
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    @DavidFullerton "a few months"? How long would it have taken to just rename the SE app and see if that gets more installs? You're using this loop, getting these results, when you want to be in this one. (Images from here). Commented May 17, 2017 at 18:27
  • 28
    This topic is much like the one about whether documentation has failed, a deservedly vocal response to the disregard shown to the users of the given tools, ignoring the reported bugs, flaws and feature requests in favour of assumptions, optimism and a strange "Field of Dreams" style faith in the mantra of "if we build it, they will come." Like the documentation I also don't use the app, because the mobile site does what I need it do (barring push notifications, and that one app feature doesn't justify the download and installation). Commented May 17, 2017 at 19:57
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    @DavidFullerton That argument would fly a lot better if people were actually saying what you way they are saying. What we're saying is what you've got now is broken, so what it needs is fixing not improving, and I've never run across anybody that thinks that fixing bugs and creating new things are mutual exclusive. Developer hours are limited, I understand that. I can even understand spending more time, percentage-wise, on new stuff than on bug fixing. But as far as I can see, the amount of time spent on fixing the bugs has been not low, but zero.
    – Ajean
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:15
  • 13
    This answer: +137, this question: -137
    – AAM111
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 22:33
147

Just to be clear ... You sunk one year (not quite, but eh) of dev-time into a bad1 searchability clone of an app? Instead of finding out why the app isn't downloaded as much as you'd expect, you commit something in the ballpark of 100k$2 in resources on the idea that your expert users, generating great content, are "unable to find the app"?

I'm not ever going to search Stack Overflow on any app, if I can help it, because it's near impossible to get any useful results from my teeny tiny mobile screen.

I'm not ever going to search Stack Overflow on a tablet either, because at that point I'm most probably close enough to a device with a screen that allows me to do useful things besides searching for one thing on Stack Overflow.

The point I'm trying to make is ... be aware of who your target audience is and what they want. Aside from the developer survey this year, where I answered a single question on the app (whether I use it, that is), I haven't seen any place where feedback regarding the app is meaningfully processed. (I mean there are bugs in the app from literally years ago ...)

Instead of asking your audience what they want (power user tools, less bugs), you just went and assumed stuff and it looks like you got a rebuke for it ...

Unless of course, the app is actually meaningfully different (as in better for a certain kind of work) than the current SE app, and you just didn't get around to actually make it different yet, which seems far fetched from my current POV :/

1This question scores -23 at time of writing, it's not possible to browse any site but SO (according to question), it's not even possible to accept an answer, ...
2 "[..]We've been working full time on the SO app since last June, [..]"

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    Judging from SO salary calculator, the ballpark is probably closer to $250K Commented May 16, 2017 at 23:00
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    Maybe I am missing context, but we probably shouldn't be assuming dollar figures like this. It doesn't seem likely someone spent their entire week every week for a year working on this one project. I am usually juggling 4-5 projects and I find that experience to be fairly typical among developers I know. Linear time != hours spent on a single project.
    – Dan Lowe
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 19:57
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    @DanLowe I'm referring to a comment by the Mobile Team lead on the post in a "footnote" attached to the dollar figure. ... Adding some usual numbers relating to cost for a junior dev for a month * 12, give or take a few from my homecountry, which equates to most probably quite a bit less than what they actually pay their mobile lead, I'd say it's a very conservative estimate... Plugging in the numbers from the (openly accessible) SO Salary Calculator makes for numbers in the same magnitude, and then some ...
    – Vogel612
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 20:32
133

Will you please stop "working" on unimportant bullshit like this app and focus on things that actually matter?

Yes, the Stack Exchange team, you read that right - you're wasting time, manpower, and (perhaps most importantly) money on things that nobody cares about. What's worse, you're not even aware of it!

And now you're duplicating the entire official app based on the false assumption that people searching for "stack overflow" instead of "stack exchange" can't find out that there's an official SE app! That app is already the first result for "stack overflow" on Google Play AND App Store!

Please, stop this madness.

Please, rethink your priorities and order your to-do list based on actual feedback instead of wild guesses and whim.


Now let me make a guess.

You're wondering what could be worked on right now instead of duplicating the official SE app for Stack Overflow.

Here's a non-exhaustive list of what you could do:

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    While I'd have put it more politely (and I disagree about some of the points, and can't offer an opinion on the app) some bullet points here do make a lot of sense. Probably the wrong place to air them, though.
    – Pekka
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 19:33
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    Seriously though. How is it possible that SO is failing Joel test #5 so hard?
    – BJ Myers
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 19:58
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    I appreciate that there are a lot of issues on Stack Overflow that need to be addressed, and maybe we haven't been responding to them as quickly as we should. But Stack Overflow Q&A is a big, established product, most of the problems left are hard, and we can't let maintenance become the only thing we work on or we'll just slowly run out of money and go out of business. We are trying to both maintain Q&A and solve new problems for developers and reach new audiences. The latter is hard, and maybe we'll fail on a lot of our ideas, but we're not going to stop trying.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:10
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    While I also would have put it more politely and I can't weigh in on all the suggestions, I think this level of frustration is what a lot of us are feeling right now.
    – Ajean
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:23
  • 34
    @DavidFullerton Why are you going to run out of money and go out of business maintaining an existing product, as opposed to creating entirely new products? I would think that neglecting your only largely successful product, and alienating and your most valuable users of that product, is a good way to run out of money and go out of business.
    – Servy
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:31
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    @Servy We don't have a sustainable business model yet. Even if we did, we'd have to keep inventing or we'll eventually become obsolete. See The Innovator's Dilemma.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:37
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    @DavidFullerton The app is free, so I'm not seeing how it's improving the monetization of SO. Are there some hidden fees in there that I'm not aware of that result in it generating more money than the same consumption of that content would on the regular website?
    – Servy
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:40
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    @DavidFullerton So you're assuming people that don't, and will never, use the actual website will find this app, and use it, exclusively, to interact with SO? That seems odd to me; I don't expect that to be a good introduction to SO, or where programmers are going to go when looking for answers. If you're treating the existence of the app as nothing more than an advertisement for SO in the app store, then I'm surprised that that's the most economical form of exposure out there. There have to be simpler and easier ways of getting attention, or improved traffic, to the other existing products.
    – Servy
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:49
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    @DavidFullerton "Getting new users to participate in new ways is a good thing ... That's why this app is not targeted at power users." - What? No. This 'app', which you claim could be the 'savior of our woes', can't even accept an answer. Tell me, please, how is that acceptable? You want new users to use this app and interact with the site, but the funny thing is these new user cannot upvote, which means the only thing they have is an 'Accept Answer' button, but it's not there. This app is a direct encouragement for people to ask a question and not give back to the community. Commented May 17, 2017 at 22:26
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    @DavidFullerton How did that pass Q/A? That's my point. You guys half-assed this app, then tell us it's 'ready for public testing' but manage to omit one of 5 (yes, 5) major features. I'm not pissed we're getting an app we don't want, I'm pissed that we're getting an app we don't want, missing critical features. The disrespect with that is astounding. I get it, the 'regular' users are not your target audience, but you literally and actively made our lives more difficult. The only good thing is it's going to be fixed 'soon'. Commented May 17, 2017 at 23:20
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    @dorukayhan - You have some good points there, but I strongly disagree with the way you're presenting it. This is not nice, awfully demanding, and reads like you know for certain what would work and what wouldn't (IMO many of the things you've linked would only have a minor impact). Also, what Shog9 said - it's probably good to have a small team experimenting something new. These are not your (or the community's) time, resources, or money to allocate (by the way, I thought the top bar and developer story were quite nice).
    – Kobi
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 5:36
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    The tone of this post is quite rude. I do understand your point, but sadly it is overshadowed by the tone. It is human nature to be more forthcoming in a constructive discussion so I think the post could gain value by reducing some of the emotional fire.
    – Rhayene
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 11:53
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    @Rhayene It's not remotely overshadowed by the tone; you just don't like it. I happen to like it as do other mods and users. It's refreshing to occasionally read real people expressing real emotions in an industry full of corporate dweebs "reaching out" and "moving forward" like so many blind cave animals.
    – user146043
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 15:45
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    @DrEval it is not about liking or not liking. If you want to achieve something, then framing your point in a constructive tone is far superior to framing it like a rant. If you have a customer - for whom would you rather work overtime: the one that cooperates in a constructive way, or the one that screams at you? That point aside, I was also worried if this still fits the 'be nice' policy.
    – Rhayene
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 18:21
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    @Rayhene Perhaps; personally I'm fed up of the "everything offends me and I'm going to make that everyone's problem" culture. I find it hard to have patience for people who deliberately assign a lower value to an obviously good point, based solely on the way it's phrased. It's illogical, and speaks volumes of a wider problem in society. This post is not impolite, impatient or disrespectful, and it irks me that people fling words like that around when they're not warranted. Most of that is not aimed at you personally, evidently I needed to get that off my chest :)
    – Clive
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 16:14
84

It didn't have to be this way. Maybe it still doesn't.

I understand the app being low priority if it wasn't getting used much and development resources were slim. But throwing manpower at a duplicate project when the one power users needed was languishing in bugs was not a good idea. Many of us have nearly abandoned using SE on the go because it's so frustrating.

If branding and searchability was the problem, I dare say most of us would have preferred see the existing app be rebranded to primarily serve SO with other sites buried in the UI somewhere if it meant getting some basic bug fixes in place so that normal site functions worked once you picked your site. Being a die hard SE user and having my app issues ignored for a duplicate project focused on newbies seems like the opposite of what drew me to SE in the first place. At this point I can barely type through the crashes but the development resources go to a duplicate?

If you'd updated the existing app to give power users something they didn't cringe when they had to use it I dare say it would have taken off faster in general. It might not be too late, but don't wait too long to get these projects back under the same roof. Two half baked apps doesn't do anybody any good. If the new app is better, hurry up and get it connected to all the sites. If the old app model is the future, hurry up and fix it so the basics work and the workflow isn't so cumbersome.

0
48

I think your CEO said it best:

  1. Do you fix bugs before writing new code?

This new app falls under the "neither need nor want" category. Why not fix the existing app first? Why add more code when the existing code is full of bugs and missing features?

I will also add that your own app is ranked below Quora when searching for "Stack Overflow" on the Google Play store. Why do we need this app, again?

enter image description here

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    And hey, the Stack Exchange app is right there! Commented May 17, 2017 at 22:54
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    To be fair, this is what I see: i.sstatic.net/4mzJG.png - there are multiple 3rd-party clones and clients with similar logos and name. If I don't know that Stack Exchange is, it looks like just another unofficial app. The real logo stands out.
    – Kobi
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 7:37
35

I'm a bit "confused" about the thinking behind this decision. Especially because you guys at Stack Overflow are, at least in my opinion, known for making reasonable decisions with a good impact on the site(s) by adding new features (Documentation, Jobs, etc.).

Even if the Documentation isn't liked by all users, it still provides some functionality for some users.

But this move is, as much as I understand, just a marketing move which will most likely not work how you would have expected. As many others already mentioned, not many of us use the app at all, because we use the site on our big screens at work.

I predict that this app will not be downloaded more than the old one because the Stack Overflow users will not use it more often than before and also all the other user from other Stack Exchange sites will obviously not use it.

A waste of time and money which could have been used in a better way by, for example fixing some Android bugs (as it looks like, the app isn't useable currently).

Written in the Stack Exchange iOS app

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    Note that Documentation is far from a reasonable decision with good impact in the eyes of many users. Commented May 17, 2017 at 10:35
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    @AndrasDeak I know, but there is still a new feature which was created. This new app doesn't provide any new functionality to the user at all.
    – Christian
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 10:36
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    Whether this will "work" depends on how many people are searching the app stores for "Stack Overflow" and not finding our old app. If there are a lot, then we'll see organic growth in the app and can start adding more features like Documentation, Dev Story, Jobs, etc. But we didn't want to spend another 6 months developing those features before finding out if anyone will install it.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 14:35
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    +1 for the "Written in the Stack Exchange iOS app" Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:54
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    @DavidFullerton the fact that the ultimate goal is to "[add] more features like Documentation, Dev Story, Jobs, etc." makes me wonder; perhaps it's just that the meta crowd (a lot of whom are quite opposed to Documentation, Dev Story, etc.) shows a correlation in dislike. Perhaps the target audience is not on SO. Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:42
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    @DavidFullerton What if I told you that the official SE app is the first hit for "stack overflow" on Google Play and Apple's App Store? Commented May 17, 2017 at 20:58
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    @dorukayhan Yes, we made sure that Stack Overflow was prominent in the SE app description so that it got ranked for that. However, we still found that users did not know that was Stack Overflow and so didn't install it.
    – David Fullerton Mod
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:00
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    I'm really curious who these non-tech savvy SO users are who couldn't find the SE app... btw, the SE app is one of my favorite apps Commented May 17, 2017 at 21:38
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    I had a similar question about the top bar, @DanBeaulieu. SE definitely sees a different user base than we here on Meta do.
    – jscs
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 13:21
31

This is actually a question in the form of an answer phrased as a statement, but what the heck.

Just open source the gdamned thing on https://github.com/StackExchange and start taking pull requests.

You know Stack Overflow is a website with millions of software developers who are active regular members? You know that mobile devs are the 3rd largest self-identifying type of developer on SO, that they're the third largest group looking for work (aka folks polishing on their resume)...

You're leaving this great resource untapped. Tap it, get the app in ship shape order in much less time, and make everybody (well, not me, but still) happy. Or happier. Or happy-ish.

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  • But now I'm curious what it would take to make you happy, Will. Apart from a globally ubiquitous hardware-based solution for slapping select Stack Overflow users, that is.
    – Pekka
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 14:10
  • 6
    I'll be happy when MS stops trying to destroy their own mobile platform.
    – user1228
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 14:12
  • 2
    FWIW I talked with our lawyers last year or two years ago about opening sourcing the apps and where it got down to was "we could if you want but taking user code changes in will be a mess" and the idea of doing code drops not open sourcing didn't appeal to me.
    – Kasra Rahjerdi Staff
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 15:04
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    "taking user code changes in will be a mess" I can't really speak from the development side, but I've followed enough major open source projects that do this to know it's not as bad as you think it is. Many projects have strict contribution guides (that are open source themselves, if you get my drift) that let you decline pull requests easily if they don't meet those requirements outlined in the guides. And you can always put up the very smallest, lowest-priority but still annoying bugs "up for grabs" while you work on the big stuff.
    – user1228
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 15:28
  • 1
    Agreed! Where can we "petition" to get this open-sourced?
    – martin
    Commented Oct 12, 2018 at 11:21
23

I'm an active every day user of the Stack Exchange iOS app. And I have to say it's pretty cool: no distractions, no ads, just questions and answers, almost all features the main site has are included, quick to use (tap the icon and now you're here!), awesome design, great usability (which I can't say about the mobile site, but that's just my opinion), etc. However, there are some bugs that have been around for quite a while (not days or weeks, but months), and nobody seems to be taking care of them, like this one.

But it won't be nearly as cool if there were no access to other sites in the SE network! It's always interesting to browse the hot questions from other sites, thus learning a lot of stuff, you can join any other site and ask questions there in literally one click. Because Stack Exchange isn't only Stack Overflow, it's more. Why restrict people to Stack Overflow only?

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  • Well, I imagine this app isn't intended for people who are significant users of other sites. They have another app to use.
    – Joe
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 15:28
  • 1
    @Joe, and this is the problem. Why create an app dedicated to Stack Overflow, if there already is one that lets one access all the SE sites, Stack Overflow included? One could've created a separate app for each SE community for that matter. Looks like a waste of time & money to me. Also, personally I'm not (unfortunately) such a significant user of other sites, but I still browse them very often and find lots of cool information there.
    – ForceBru
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 15:32
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    @ForceBru Well, I think there is a case to be made that a separate app is not wholly unreasonable - not this app, but an app. One that has better programmer-centric features, like an easier time entering code for example, or integration with Documentation. Stuff that doesn't really make sense on the SE overall app, which has to be much more generic since it's focused on a wide range of sites.
    – Joe
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 15:40
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I'm apparently somehow in the narrow niche of users who finds the Stack Exchange iOS app useful. I may be a niche of one, who knows, but I do.

My use case for it is specific: I use it to

  • Receive notifications on my phone when someone responds to me in some way
  • Reply to those notifications when it's a simple reply and I'm away from my desk
  • Very occasionally, to glance at 'hot questions' when I'm bored.

Those three things the app does fine. It's not something I'm going to use to write long answers. It's not something I'll ever use to browse questions. I'm not closing questions. But for dealing with the quick pings, it's quite useful.

I think understanding the point of the app - that it's never going to be the main way you interact with Stack Whatever, but rather that it's the way you do very specific things that you might want to do on mobile - is key.

I don't see much of a point in a separate Stack Overflow app, though. It doesn't serve my niche effectively - I mean, maybe a few people will find it that didn't before, but app store SEO is not that hard is it? I guess if you want this to be sort of the 'developer preview' build of the app that's fine, but I don't see the branding making much sense.

And I don't see Stack Overflow being sufficiently special that it makes sense to have the app work substantially differently, unless you optimize the keyboard for code entry? If you do make changes that are optimized for Stack Overflow's community specifically, I'd probably put that in the question here...

2
  • 7
    Also my use case.
    – bishop
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 1:35
  • I have it purely for the inbox notifications. I never use the actual app, other than by mistake.
    – tripleee
    Commented Aug 11, 2017 at 11:29
13

Stack Overflow isn't just Q&A's. It's a community. There's a culture: the entire Stack Exchange network is community-moderated. It's that culture that polarizes a bunch of people about SO/SE; it's also that culture that makes SO/SE so successful - SE sites aren't your everyday discussion forum. You don't walk into SO with a blatant "gimmeh teh codez" question if you want to have a good day.

It is known.

To include more people, all SO/SE needs to do, is keep being that - and keep the content quality high. Which is hard to do without the power users with the required privileges to enforce that.

Take first-time users by the hand and walk them through a brief summary of the rulebook with a 2-minute interactive presentation (a bit like the [tour], but not just about site/app mechanics - i.e. an actual "tour": the term "Minimal Complete Verifiable Example" shouldn't be first encountered in a comment by someone that just voted to close your first post), and then progressively unveil the functionality as their reputation score increases and new privileges are acquired: that gamification element is also fundamental to SE.

This is what the SO/SE app mobile apps should capture and convey: by including tools for each relevant privilege level as features.

And then you could give users the ultimate incentive to download and use the SO/SE Official app: get someone to suck it up and do whatever it takes to fix the swag inventory management and have in-app purchases for SO mugs, tees, hats, keychains, stickers, pens, whatever: just shut up, charge the shipping fees, a 75% markup, and take my money. It's good for the economy; good business for the swag suppliers, and a constant flow of cash from avid users and die-hard fanatics that demand nothing more than throwing their money at you... if you'll let them.

But in-app purchases aren't the real driver (or even necessary): it's implementing the score++ == tooling++ relationship in the app, that encapsulates the essence of SO/SE and gets you a central coherent backbone to implement features against. You avoid overwhelming new users while giving your more experimented faithful users the tools they worked so hard to unlock.

By implementing the tooling associated with reputation score, you teach new users that download this app exactly what SO/SE is about: they get to have this HUGE knowledge base in their pocket, and they're a part of it, and the more they're a part of it the more it's theirs to protect from bad content.

Sounds much like the website? Mission. Fucking. Accomplished.

10

From observing both this new app and the older Stack Exchange app - which I've been using for years now - I get the impression that this hits the 80% use case.

Effectively, they help out with the primitive functionality of the site:

  • Look at questions
  • Search questions
  • Get notifications (including rep changes)
  • Flag and close questions*
  • Voting
  • Commenting

...which is what the site is used for 80% of the time.

The other 20% is noticeably absent:

  • Moderation tooling - including being able to see close votes - is lacking
  • No chat functionality
  • No review queues

But here's my argument: it doesn't need to be there. Most of the site isn't geared towards these things; power users are easily outnumbered by less-power-users, and this app doesn't cater to power users. Chat isn't that popular and so it's not included in the 80%, although I won't deny having that functionality would be cool. It's likely a cost-benefit trade off for not including it.

Bear in mind, I'm making my own arguments here, but I'd even argue that a mobile variant of the website wouldn't be designed or engineered to cater to power users either, since what you want to accomplish or the information you want to fetch doesn't lend itself well to bandwidth concerns.

I use moderation tools, and I've had some pain points when editing or posting on the mobile site, but I have had to identify where and when I use this app. I don't use it to get a whole bunch of copy editing done, nor can I really use it to hunt down duplicates (the exact coordinates thing is a pain point that I'll raise as a bug later), but if I want to look at questions and potentially answer them later, it's useful. If I want to see when someone pings me, it's helpful (because I can then relay that to my desktop).

Please folks, don't hate on the app because it doesn't deliver the exact niches you use. For its necessary purpose, it does it well.

Now, can we have the same design for the old app, too? I bounce between communities more than I ever have before and I'd like my experience to be consistent.

*: I hate exact coordinates. I want fuzzy coordinates. This may be a limitation of the API, but the API needs updated.

10
  • 9
    This answer is probably what the announcement should've been. Kudos - very insightful. Speaking as someone who does a lot of power-user stuff from my phone (moderation, approving user deletions, changing site settings), the mobile site is something I end up turning off pretty quickly; the information and tooling I need just isn't there. That doesn't make it bad, just makes it bad for me.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:32
  • 13
    I'd guess that more than 80% of SO use - in particular by non-power-users - involves copying and pasting something between the site and an IDE/text editor.
    – user6655984
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:35
  • If they made "Get notifications (including rep changes)" work in the browser of your choice would you still use the app, as opposed to the browser version?
    – Peilonrayz
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:23
  • 1
    @Peilonrayz: Oh, absolutely. I mean, a service working capable of showing me the notifications in my browser would be phenomenal, but that wouldn't stop me from my other use cases; casually skimming questions to answer or to take some preliminary action of voting, commenting or closing. I mean, I'm not going to open my laptop up on the bus just to vote on a question, y'know, so the app still has value.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:27
  • 1
    @Makoto I meant as opposed to a mobile browser, :) As you can do those things in it, and some of the more 'power-user' stuff too.
    – Peilonrayz
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:33
  • 1
    @Peilonrayz: Not sure if you missed my minor diatribe on a mobile version of the site. I don't like it all that much since it mushes too many things together, so I'd find myself using the app more than the mobile site. UX is important.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 17:38
  • What would the bandwidth/data cost and the increased app footprint in MB be if chat support were included, I wonder? That'd be interesting to know.
    – TylerH
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 20:38
  • @TylerH: You should also consider the cost of making chat more flexible in that arena. I doubt just embedding the existing chat client would be suitable, and that's also one part of the site that has design vestiges of 2011 left over.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 1:50
  • 5
    @Shog9: I suppose it also doesn't help that it was announced on Meta, which is, quite literally, where power users hang out.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 1:51
  • @Makoto No I'm curious specifically about the cost to the user, not about the cost to the developer.
    – TylerH
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 2:21
8

Three quick points of review (this is regarding the iOS version):

  1. Splitting notifications: I get why you chose to do this; actually I can't think of any other reasonable way to make it work. But I have no desire to get a system-level notification for an SO comment when I'm in the SE app. It also doesn't make much sense to me that comments from other sites are even displayed in my inbox in the Stack Overflow app, if the app is supposed to be all about just Stack Overflow. (Plus they switch me to another app.)

  2. The raw /questions feed on Stack Overflow is a firehose spewing lava. /questions is usable on other sites, but not on Stack Overflow. Subject areas are too varied, and questions come in too fast. I need quicker access to my favorite tags (and/or a "front page"-type view). They're buried under the "More" tab; not discoverable and not easy to get to even once you know where to go.

  3. I just noticed the "Open in Safari" button on posts is not available hidden under "Share". Switching to the browser is important as long as moderation stuff like reopen votes, suggested edits, and related questions/duplicate search aren't available in the app. This should be a top-level action.

(Also, Meta.)

Overall, I don't really understand the motivation for this. I use the existing SE app (again, iOS*) on a daily basis. Far and away, the site I'm most active on is Stack Overflow, and the SE app works quite well for quick/casual browsing, basic moderation, and the occasional post. Plus I don't get switched away to another app if I want to view a message that's from a different site.

As a primary Stack Overflow user, I have no interest in this new app. I'm going to stick with the SE app unless the new one gains some greatly expanded feature set that's lacking in the older app.


*I hear that the Android app is somewhat less usable.

3
  • Good feedback. I gotta take issue with your footnote though; the Android app is infinitely better than the iOS app. In my exhaustive tests, the latter persistently refused to even launch on any of my devices, while the former ran on all of them with only minor hiccups.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 23:26
  • 1
    I think you should count it as a success that you were even able to install an iOS app on an non-Apple device, @Shog9.
    – jscs
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 0:04
  • Gotta confess, it took some doing. You'd think apple would make this easier!
    – Shog9
    Commented May 19, 2017 at 0:29
6

I think I could understand how SO app makes sense if it would be purely pragmatically motivated, for example like as follows:

SE app is currently troublesome in too many ways and we want to make sure that its improvement is prioritised in a meaningful way.

For that, we decided to release and maintain a version of the app with limited functionality which is expected to be in most demand.

Specifically, this new app is going to focus solely on features that are substantially important for Q&A at the main site in the network - Stack Overflow.

In particular, new app is not going to support features that are unrelated or insignificant for its primary purpose, such as:

  • MathJax support
  • cross-site authentication and joining other communities
  • i18n
  • hot network questions
  • chat
  • spoilers
  • per-site configurable settings
    (eg rate limits, quality filter, and beta privilege thresholds)
  • Jobs
  • Documentation
  • meta (hm?)
  • etc...

We expect that tight focus and rigid limiting of features will help us make better progress in resolving quality issues in the app.

Fixes and improvements in the new app are expected to be backported to SE app when possible.

Quite a pity that per my reading of the announcement it doesn't look like the case here.

Granted, there is a small note that may be related but it's buried deep in the middle and appears to be totally obscured by other points: "make it more straightforward for developers who don’t use Stack Exchange much".

5

I am pretty happy with my mobile's Chrome app where I just type the URL and can see the page quicker than the Stack Exchange app. I never needed a specific app just to browse Q&As or answer any post, and I don't know about other tasks though.

If an app is really needed (which I don't think) then please make a progressive web application.

1
  • Not sure how tech preference comes here.. but I would have gone with a chat app suggestion..
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 13:11
-16

All those devs doing dev on (not for) phones and tablets can now finally get the answers they need!

Oh wait, no one does dev on phones and tablets because you have to use a desktop to do dev for phones and tablets. Who was the target audience for this?

2
  • 6
    Probably those who mostly answer? For example, I can run a Python interpreter in my head to answer questions. And if it's not enough, I've got one on my iPhone so I don't need a computer to stackoverflow.
    – ForceBru
    Commented May 17, 2017 at 16:10
  • 5
    I do dev on phones and tablet.
    – user6820627
    Commented May 18, 2017 at 0:09
-28

While I do agree it seems funny to spend so much time on something that duplicates existing functionality, perhaps I can offer some perspective:

Perhaps people are wasting time by developing Emacs when we already have Vim?

Perhaps people are wasting time by developing Linux when we already had Windows?

Perhaps people are wasting time by developing Firefox when we already had Internet Explorer?

Perhaps people are wasting time by developing ARM CPUs when we already had Intel?

Perhaps people are wasting time by writing software when we can already get through our daily lives?

So the guy spent some time working on an app for you. Nobody stands to lose from this, It won't prop up anybody's self esteem here to tear them apart from trying to make a valuable contribution to Stack Overflow, which it could probably use with a little outside the box thinking.

I think it's a little tasteless to call people out for 'wasting time' and suggest better ways they could be investing when you are spending your time writing a novel on why they are wasting their time. When I get into a new environment, I write a Hello, World! program as a sanity check. Solving problems makes you a better programmer. Not everybody gets to work on space shuttle code straight out of college so if they want to make an app I don't see an issue with that.

3
  • 13
    These are horrible analogies! Every single thing you list is an instance of competition — different entities throwing different resources and expertise at a problem. Competing products can be good when they increase the amount of resources involved in solutions and motivate innovation. Browser development projects move along faster when a competing browser is biting at their heals. But that's not the case here. SE used one pool of employees and resources to develop a competitor to themselves — the result of which is two products each only half as good as one would have been. Maybe less.
    – Caleb
    Commented Jun 10, 2017 at 11:21
  • microsoft used to make a unix variant for pc alongside their dos implementation. Think bigger. If somebody sees something they want to make and they do it it's really sad to see people get their underwear up in a wad because of it. What's it to anybody except the people that did it? Who cares? ThAts what I'm saying. Also, I think the analogies stand for themselves. If you choose to disregard their relevant aspects in favor for their irrelevant aspects then that's up to you. I don't think you can speak for alternate futures well enough to be the oracle of what could have been. Don't speculate
    – R Jesu
    Commented Jun 11, 2017 at 16:54
  • I hate all of these analogies (except for the first).
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Sep 8, 2019 at 13:26

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