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I marked https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40789941/boostrap-form-elemnts-out-of-grid as rude.

It was declined. Not a big deal. But after it was deleted. Why it was deleted? (I don't know how/ to who ask).

I read many posts about similar situations (e.g. rude or abusive flag declined) so I'm going to ask something a little it different.

First, my motivation: Question apparently contains just "WTF" which while reading is "WHAT THE FUCK" but the links were sending to a page containing rude words like

"This is for IE shit, who gives a fuck about IE?"

Second, definitions:

"Rude: discourteous or impolite; bad-mannered."

There's no need to ask to a philologist to conclude that rude means "rude". Doesn't need an extra level to be flagged, doesn't need to be aggressive, offensive, indecent, outrageous, insulting or even more. Maybe one day there will be a different flag for all these situations but so far we have "rude or abusive" so anything that is just rude per se should be enough.

Third, a first question: It is a correct approach to evaluate the whole question, including the content of the linked page, in order to judge the quality of the whole a post? Should we merely take care only of the text or links and attached images too? Please try to explicit consequences for yes and consequences for no in your answer. (e.g. if a text is ok but the accessory content is spam, phishing etc... should you flag it or not?).

Fourth, a second question (

Taking this comment from rude or abusive flag declined as starting point for further questions:

"Fucked" and "idiot" are rude, but don't fit the criteria for truly "offensive" -- those words might sometimes be acceptable on the site. More importantly, the question can just be edited to remove them -- it doesn't require moderator intervention. You can't see the question because it was deleted by a moderator.

  1. What is rude is rude. Shouldn't need to be worst to be flagged as "rude".
  2. "Sometimes"... introduces, imo, too discretionality. Who judges when it's the right or wrong time?
  3. Let's say that, ok are just words, a bit rude but harmless. Is there really need for that? I want to read code and keep positive attitude in my day trying helping others about code. Do I have to read whatever the frustrating mood suggested to the angry developer? I think the meaning of the flag "rude or abusive" differently than from others flags is more subject to opinions but yet has the great goal to keep stackoverflow a pleasant place.
  4. Totally agree with the comment. But yet a question. Can a question be deleted because "rude" and at the same time a "rude" flag on the same question being rejected because considered not enough rude?

I would like to receive answers that can help us as community to make good decisions in similar cases, showing also deep analysis and different perspectives. Not just some general agreement or disagreement about how subjective is the language according to the sensitiveness the readers. We take this for granted.

Thanks

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    If you see it, edit it out. If the user is persistently rude/abusive however (or rolls the edit back) then you can flag. There is no need for moderator intervention on a single "wtf". Also note that it wasn't deleted because it was offensive, but because the OP chose to delete their own question.
    – Bart
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:33
  • The question is, is the link part of post? In that case there is more. No?
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:37
  • Links are inconsequential to a question. You explicitly shouldn't need to evaluate them to judge a question. If the links make it a good question, the question is bad. All content should be entirely self-contained. That said, if there are problematic links, edit them out and if there is any notion the OP explicitly added them to cause trouble, flag away.
    – Bart
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:39
  • Let me ask (again): if the text is ok but the link content is spam, phishing, pornography etc... you don't flag it?
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:43
  • You do. You flag it as spam if it's spam/phishing. And as rude/abusive if it's porn or whatever horrible content.
    – Bart
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:47
  • So we can say that links are not inconsequential to a question?
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:48
  • Not necessarily. But if all about a question is fine, and it includes a link to otherwise on-topic off-site content which happens to read "If you ever wondered wtf is going on with feature X" ... we really don't care.
    – Bart
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:52
  • Sorry I don't get. We, who? Many users care.
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:54
  • Was not able to see any rudeness, but despair! "I have tried everything i could and i cannot solve this problem wtf am i doing wrong?' Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 19:00

2 Answers 2

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My understanding is that the rudeness of posts is evaluated based on the tone, purpose, and effect of the post, not the presence of any specific "rude word" or "four letter word" in it. A post could say "Could someone help me understand what is wrong with my sh***y code, it's f***ing up my accounting software and I don't want to look like an a**hole in front of the customer?" and not be Rude (though it would probably be good to edit it), and a post could be perfectly clean in terms of individual words but be very rude if the purpose of the post is to demean, bash, or harass a person or organization or to demean or bash a product, technology, platform, idea, concept, tool, or other thing, rather than seek or provide information in a civilized and charitable manner. This is very similar to Wikipedia's concept of an Attack Page.

Thus, a post that said, "Don't use C, C is a bad language for programming. People who use C are generally of low intelligence and rarely finish university degrees. I expect that C will die out soon because C programmers are typically unable to successfully reproduce due to lack of social skills." would be flaggable as Rude despite not having any specific "bad word" in it.

Later thought

The quotation that the OP found, "More importantly, the question can just be edited to remove them -- it doesn't require moderator intervention" indicates something else that links in with this. A post that contains a "bad word" can be easily edited to say the same thing with other words (e.g. replace "sh***y code" with "bad code" or replace "it's f***ing up my app" with "it is causing problems with my app"). A post whose tone or theme is inherently rude (e.g. denigrating the usefulness of a tool) cannot be edited into a perfect post without changing its meaning, which is something that you are not supposed to do.

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    Hi I perfectly agree. To be rude there is not even need to use bad words. It'a a behavior. The iterate (text + links) presence of bad words it just confirm and show explicitly what could be considered just a feeling otherwise.
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 17:27
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    Please allow me to ask, if you go to court and you use these words, will you be fined or not? If you go for a coffee do you think that it is not annoying to hear such language? Will you tolerate teachers talking like that to class? My point is that members of SO are not obligated to tolerate the sewer of expressions anyone feels like using... There are rules in the society to allow not becoming savages again. Commented Nov 26, 2016 at 17:00
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    @KonstantinosChertouras first of all, Stack Overflow is neither a courtroom nor a coffee shop. Second of all, I think the main point here is that "rude words" can be edited out of a post without involving the moderators. A post whose rudeness is not due to any specific word but is due to the post's subject or theme cannot be salvaged and thus should be subject to deletion by mods. Commented Nov 27, 2016 at 14:56
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    @KonstantinosChertouras think about it this way - if someone posted an answer saying "@user is a f&&&face that is full of s&&&.", how would you edit that to remove the rudeness without changing its meaning? If you changed it to "@user is a person of low regard whose viewpoints lack validity.", would that make it an appropriate Stack Overflow Answer? Of course it wouldn't, it would still be Rude, because such a post is inherently rude outside of any specific vocabulary choices. Commented Nov 27, 2016 at 14:57
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  1. What is rude is rude. Shouldn't need to be worst to be flagged as "rude".

Actually... the rude/abusive flag has a specific meaning on Stack Exchange, and specific criteria for when it should be used.

"WTF" is unprofessional, yes. It's also not a valid reason to use the rude/abusive flag. This flag comes with a severe 100-rep penalty to the flagged user if the flag is marked helpful, which is not something you should apply just for being unprofessional.

Likewise, "IE shit" is also unprofessional. It's a margin more offensive than "WTF", but not by much - and it's also a pretty commonly-held opinion.

Use the rude/abusive flag only for severe issues; these don't count.

  1. "Sometimes"... introduces, imo, too discretionality. Who judges when it's the right or wrong time?

The moderators do. The moderators are democratically (or nearly so) elected; they are trusted to make these kinds of judgements, and they're also pretty consistent about it - especially with the "red flags" (spam, and rude/abusive).

  1. Let's say that, ok are just words, a bit rude but harmless. Is there really need for that? I want to read code and keep positive attitude in my day trying helping others about code. Do I have to read whatever the frustrating mood suggested to the angry developer? I think the meaning of the flag "rude or abusive" differently than from others flags is more subject to opinions but yet has the great goal to keep stackoverflow a pleasant place.

No, they're not necessary. But neither do they warrant a rude/abusive flag. Fortunately, that's why we have editing - someone with over 2k rep can edit them out and leave only the pertinent question, or you can suggest an edit to do that.

  1. Totally agree with the comment. But yet a question. Can a question be deleted because "rude" and at the same time a "rude" flag on the same question being rejected because considered not enough rude?

You don't know why the question was deleted without consulting the person who deleted it. I'm going to assume you haven't done that. Therefore, try not to make assumptions about why a particular post was deleted - it leads to confusion like this.

To actually answer this question, yes - even if a post is deleted for being too rude, a moderator is allowed to decide that the 100-rep penalty is unnecessary, and decline or dispute the flags on it.

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  • Hi thanks for your reply. Should we consider links and attachment as part of what we are going to judge?
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 16:53
  • Upvote for the link and exhaustive explanation. I hope many others will give their honest opinion.
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 17:02
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    Just for the sake of correct and precise information noone get -100 for a single flag. After 6 flags (spam or rude or abusive): post is locked, deleted, and the author loses 100 reputation. But I guess that if you get 6 flags maybe you should change your style.
    – Daniele D.
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 17:10
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    @DanieleDavì I think what Art means by helpful is if the flag completes causing the lock and deletion and rep loss. One flag from a moderator triggers that as well - so it's technically possible "for a single flag" to trigger the -100 :)
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 17:19

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