8

I see these in Reopen Votes review quite regularly.

  • A (badly written) question is closed as duplicate - often, by the feel of a gold-badger's seat (as it's often really impossible to make out anything specific at that point).
  • The OP adds some details that make it clear it's not a duplicate of what it was marked as a duplicate of (or at least, deserves a more specific pointer than the dreaded "how to debug a NullPointerException").
    • This includes an iteration of a "chameleon question"
  • The question is still sub-par
    • or not sub-par any more but still a duplicate of something else
    • or fits another close reason

        so folks on the review queue vote to "leave closed".


As a result, there is

  • a sub-par question
  • incorrectly marked as a duplicate
  • and not eligible to be 'd

A lose-lose situation for both the OP and the site.


I tried to:

  • flag these for mod attention a few times, asking to re-close as a duplicate of a more appropriate question or with a non-duplicate reason
    • all I got is replies that it's not mod work.1
  • voting to reopen (in order to vote to close later), possibly with explanation in comments
    • no support from peers
  • pinging the gold-badger involved with relevant explanation
    • same as above, but at least not in 100% of cases this time

Any suggestions on a more productive course of action about handling these?

  • This includes suggestions of any possible changes to the system for it to be able to handle such cases

1(to give them their due, I now notice that one of the more recent flags was marked as helpful)

12
  • 1
    Everything would be much better if the people that are in control over the content of this web site would do a moderately better job of adding quality content. But they don't so we have to do this the hard way. Post a link, we'll get it deleted. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 8:16
  • 1
    @HansPassant I can't - at least not until a reasonable time has passed (365 days by roomba's standards >:) ). The OP can always improve it to no longer be worth leaving closed. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 8:23
  • Hmm, fairly sure that you can post a link. Do avoid creating an artificial crisis just for the benefit of trying to make a point. Earning another 544 rep so you'll gain the delete right doesn't have to take 365 days either. But you'll have to commit to having to do this the hard way, that's what the site owners want you to do. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 8:36
  • @HansPassant They're buried deep in browsing/interactions history. Maybe I'll be able to unearth a few recent ones. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 8:43
  • @HansPassant Actually, don't 10k users get access to mod queues or something and are able to handle such flags? Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 8:43
  • @Ivan: at 10K you get the right to vote to delete and undelete, and the somewhat dubious "privilege" to see deleted content (an option I'd rather be able to turn off). I don't think that ordinary users, no matter how large their rep, can get access to moderator tools.
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 11:54
  • @RadLexus It appears they were once available to 10k users but were eventually taken away. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 18:59
  • @HansPassant stackoverflow.com/q/40125857/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/39762315/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/33060020/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/33136469/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/33082297/648265 (some should be kept but marked as a duplicate of a different question as per comments). Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 19:36
  • often, by the feel of a gold-badger's seat This is an unsupported assertion. Why do you say that? Can you give an example? Sounds like more gold-badger bashing. Speaking for myself, I would not hammer a question unless I clearly understood the question and was confident in it being a dup,
    – user663031
    Commented Nov 13, 2016 at 16:23
  • @torazaburo that's an impression from my experience - which also explains how gold-badgers are involved futher on. All in all, it's not that important for the outcome. But I do have examples that are recent enough for me to dig them up: stackoverflow.com/q/40560719/648265 and e.g. stackoverflow.com/q/39762315/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/33060020/648265, stackoverflow.com/q/40125857/648265 from an earlier comment. Commented Nov 14, 2016 at 2:52
  • It would make sense, then, to implement the oft-requested feature that gold-badgers be able to re-open and then close with a different dup target, or change the dup target.
    – user663031
    Commented Nov 14, 2016 at 4:28
  • @torazaburo: Wouldn't that be the same as to allow gold badge users to close with any reason instantly? One would just have to use "Close as Duplicate" -> "Reopen" -> "Close with different dup target"?
    – BDL
    Commented Mar 31, 2017 at 21:45

3 Answers 3

6

An option in Reopen Votes to keep closed but change close reason and, necessarily, suggest to change the close reason in review and/or when casting a reopen vote/flag may help:

  • The very reason that people vote to "leave closed" appears to be:
    • the question isn't worth being reopened, even in order to to re-close it later
      • e.g. this would allow it to be answered in the time frame while it's open which is undesirable if it's bad.
      • Or even give the OP false reassurance and/or utterly confuse them.
    • the open-and-re-close process
      • can take indefinite time, or even break if the review to re-close ages away
      • requires too much community resources
  • The question gets incorrectly marked as a duplicate as described above (and probably otherwise) if and only if:
    • it's edited by an OP while the question is "on hold", or
    • someone else notices it is marked incorrectly - after an edit that is too late or was so in the first place - at which point they can initiate a review

        which both result in the post ending up in the Reopen Votes queue

1
  • Since no one suggested anything better-received for a long time or pointed out any major flaws, I'm accepting this. Commented Mar 31, 2017 at 21:22
0

I was initially going to suggest that this is mod work - these are unusual cases, thus in line with the philosophy that mods are "exception handlers"...

But looks like it really isn't as the mods strive to only be burdened with tasks that are really sensitive, and appear to handle even migration suggestions very grudgingly.

So, this might be a job for higher-tier users, but these shouldn't be the diamond mods.

-3

How about we just let gold badge holders single-handedly close such questions as unclear/off-topic?

4
  • How will this help here? I said I already tried involving gold-badgers, with mixed results at best. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 17:37
  • @ivan_pozdeev The only close reason a gold badge holder can use to close questions instantly is "this is asked before and already has an answer". Extending that to a sort-of-no-brainer close reason like "unclear what you're asking" would cause a skyrocket in the percentage of closed questions among poor questions. Commented Nov 12, 2016 at 17:49
  • Hmm... this may help here only in the fraction of cases "[successfully] pinging the gold-badger involved" mutiplied by "fits another close reason [now]". While I foresee an incentive for this option to be seen as an "easy way out" rather than handle the question properly. So this would cause (much) more harm than good if you ask me. Commented Nov 14, 2016 at 3:19
  • Closing everything is the other extreme, but still an extreme, after all. Commented Nov 14, 2016 at 3:26

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