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https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19164/do-you-really-know-your-programming-languages from 2008 asks

[my paraphrasing:] Kids these days, amirite?

and has all the answers you might expect. It currently stands at +82/-11 votes, closed in 2013 as opinion-based with 16 answers (four of which are deleted).

I think it's the most opinion-based (undeleted, un-historical locked) question I've seen here and would like to delete it. Maybe I'm missing something, though. Thoughts?


Two hours later. Folks deleted it already. For those under 10k rep, here's an excerpt from it:

Many programmers seem content to learn some pidgin sub-dialect, and stick with that. If they see a keyword or construct that they aren't familiar with, they'll complain that the code is "tricky."

[...]

What do the rest of you think? Am I right, or should we all be content with the typical level of programming language expertise?

and a link to an image of the full question.

19
  • I hope asking this here is alright. I'm modeling it on similar meta discussions: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/319073/… and meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/315898/…
    – Frank
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 21:25
  • 19
    Please don't dig up old skeletons. What happened in 2008 should stay in 2008. Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 22:00
  • 30
    @HansPassant I didn't dig it up; I stumbled over it lying above ground (in Related Questions). I'd also like to see it buried, and figure we might be doing a favor to others by doing that... (I'm assuming users can delete this with enough votes and we wouldn't need a mod. I didn't try voting yet and don't know all the ins and outs of deletion powers.)
    – Frank
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 22:03
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    @Jojodmo Let's not do that Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 23:34
  • 2
    I understand that the question is a poor fit now--or maybe even then. What I want to know is if we can demonstrate that old off-topic question cause harm in proportion to the amount of time we spend closing/deleting them. Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 23:48
  • For the curious among us who have not yet reached 10K rep, can you give a more faithful summary, or at least an indication of what the question is even about? Or, better yet, is there some way I can beat the system and see the question and answers even though I'm not at 10K? Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 23:52
  • 1
    @KyleStrand Sure, I'll post a screenshot and/or a real excerpt. I was expecting some discussion before straight-up deleting it.
    – Frank
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 23:53
  • webcache.googleusercontent.com/… Suggest you hurry before google's notices that its gone.
    – user6017774
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 23:56
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    @WayneConrad Why? Are we wasting someone's money? As long as it's just volunteers spending time then who cares how much they spend doing frivolous things. The only concern should be if deleting them is actually making the site less valuable. That question wasn't giving anyone information; StackOverflow was just hosting a rant. As far as harm: users frequently use questions like this to say, "But how can you say my question is off-topic when here's this other question that's not closed/deleted and has 100 upvotes?" Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 0:08
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    @WayneConrad I believe the effort expended in producing such a demonstration would probably far exceed both the benefit and the harm under discussion. And you might be overestimating the harm of discussing this on meta, since those interested in participating in this sort of thing (deleting junk) can self-select into looking at it using the title of the meta post (usually something like "bad thing -- delete?").
    – Frank
    Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 0:10
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    Just let it be. Quit looking for things to delete all the time. Argh! Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 18:04
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    I didn't go looking for it, @Lightness, and don't know why you and Hans are saying not to do this. This must be some sort of meta meta commentary you're engaging in, which, you know, is fine. Have at it.
    – Frank
    Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 20:40
  • 4
    @HansPassant, According to your logic, even questions regarding donuts recipes from 2008 should stay undeleted? And yes, such questions would also have hundreds of upvotes back in 2008. Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 23:49
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    @David - hyperbole never serves a discussion well. Recipes? Answering questions at SO can be a big pita, I have 15K of them and everybody insists I maintain them. That's a lousy job I did not sign up for and can't get unsigned from. Having to deal with changing flavors of what's on topic is no joy of course and does nothing but chase experts away. Almost nobody that posted back then still posts today, no coincidence. How on Earth is that useful to anybody? Commented Sep 4, 2016 at 6:32
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    @HansPassant ttytt I am sick and tired of the changing scope and strongly believe if the scope changes, questions that were ontopic at the time, stay on the site. It's an exhausting, confusing mess.
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 4, 2016 at 21:36

1 Answer 1

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It should be deleted, along with all other questions that are off topic. Bad examples, whether from 2008 or yesterday still set bad precedent – even when a question is Locked. It may be unpleasant to deal with skeletons but, unless they are dealt with, their putrefaction contaminates the living.

We have chosen (I believe wisely) not to accept questions for example where answers can only be highly opinionated. The reasons for doing so are nothing to do with when a question was asked but with the likelihood of numerous, rambling answers with no corroboration and hence little merit. There are plenty of blogs where experts, or would be experts, rant or enthuse over their pet hates and fancies. We have meta for the borderline cases and for digression into a bit of fun.

Nowhere I know of does it say "a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development" only applies for questions since any particular given date.

SO does not and should not preserve every word that is ever submitted to it. What started as a self-help group for a relatively small number of programmers has developed into a free code writing service for the lazy general public (with some exceptions!) that is declining in educational value due to sheer popularity. It is unrealistic to expect a questioner to find an answer to their problem (even if they know the right search terms, which they often do not) when I can't find it even if it was an answer I wrote.

There is information overkill. It is far easier to answer a known duplicate than to find the post to refer to. It is far easier to get someone on SO to answer your question than to work your way through it mostly by yourself and learn in the process. Granted, the first, even also second, attempt might be painful, but by the third, if a third is needed, the OP can be sure either of a tailor-made answer to their very specific issue, or that some other user has trawled through 12M+ questions and managed to find a 'master' to dupe close against.

Every opportunity to reduce clutter should be taken because though each individual useless post makes no difference whatever to the overall problem, millions of these together become a big problem. There are not many historically Locked posts, but they are far and away the most evident of those that do not further SO's objectives. Removing them is a step in the right direction. The post referred to here (now deleted) was not Locked, but in removing it a good second step in the right direction.

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  • 10
    "It is far easier to answer a known duplicate than to [find the dupe target]." Plus you get 30-85 free rep for answering trivially easy questions and 0 for voting to close, if you can even get 4 other people to help you close it without constantly hanging out in SOCVR begging for help. The incentive structure is totally against what is supposed to be the "correct" action on those questions. Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 1:43
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    Same with the "be nice" / coddle new users / pity upvote problem. Everyone agrees that the massive spike in traffic has reduced the quality of the site, but we have all these incentive structures set up "not to drive people away" and to "retain new users" as if the people asking the questions are what keeps the sites alive. It's the people answering that made the site what it is, and we're actively making their lives harder. Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 1:44
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    You admit that we're way past the point of no return on SO's scale, but still want to delete content anyway? Because it goes "in the right direction"? Meh. Commented Sep 3, 2016 at 18:09
  • As a side-note: the question is undeleted now, with 5 delete votes again... Sigh.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 7:15

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