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I am a long-time editor, but have only just recently learned that editing closed questions is discouraged, unless the edit is intended to make the question (more) suitable for re-opening.

I hold the view that closed questions are often not bad enough to warrant deletion, and that their on-hold status is useful in itself, to educate the poster, whilst letting the post (and its answers) potentially assist future readers.

I like the idea also that edits made to (even closed) questions help educate posters as to the kind of care we like to see questions presented with here (edits to posts are notified to users via their inbox, and I'd think that this would improve the posting quality for at least some of them).

Some examples: I sometimes encounter posts that have had their title modified to include [solved], even though the answer has been posted and accepted. Sometimes the title is excessively taggy, or the grammar of the body could do with improvement. I think there is value in improving these things even if it has been legitimately closed.

With these things in mind, I wonder if there is a way in which trusted users of a certain reputation could be permitted to make edits that improve the post, with the belief that the post should not be re-opened, without putting it into review? Some of this content will live for years more, and so it would be good to knock it into shape without annoying the folks who help with the review queue. Perhaps it could be a tick-box, defaulting to on, like so:

[x] Add this change to the review queue

I appreciate this feature would be open to misuse, which is why I suggest a minimum reputation for it. Perhaps there could be a "not added to the review queue" feed, so that interested users could keep an eye on the kinds of edits that are being made here.

Alternatively, if that suggestion won't fly, could we create some written guidelines about when it is appropriate to modify a closed question even with the knowledge it might waste reviewer time, or end up being robo-opened incorrectly? There are certainly cases where editing is an overriding good: if a disgruntled poster edits insults into their question, or if they "delete" it by replacing the text with nonsense.

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  • "Perhaps there could be a "not added to the review queue" feed" - by the way, is there a "recently edited posts" feed?
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:17
  • 22
    This would also be nice for cleaning up/burninating tags.
    – theB
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:19
  • 4
    rage-quits would be a problem. Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:21
  • @CodeCaster: I am not sure whether there is an edit feed, but it sounds like a very good idea that would be simple to add. If it is not available as a first-class feature, I expect a bookmarked SEDE query would do it.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:23
  • @Robert a user defacing their own posts, you mean? That raises its own flags.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:24
  • Good point @Robert, certainly worth thinking about. Do we have a history of a large number of, say, 5K+ users vandalising their content?
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:24
  • 1
    I assume this would be a 2k privilege, along with the full editing privilege.
    – Floern
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:24
  • 4
    @Floern: it could indeed kick in at 2K, yes. I had wondered whether the limit might be even higher, say 5K, but I don't think this privilege is important enough to warrant inclusion on the privilege list - so it would be a good idea to roll it in with another related one.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:27
  • I don't see any problem regarding potential abuse. (Self-)vandalism edits don't go to any review queue anyway if the question is not closed (unless an auto-flag gets triggered).
    – Floern
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 19:35
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    Related, but more narrow: Tag-removal-only edits shouldn't add closed questions to the Reopen Review queue.
    – Paul Roub
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 20:29
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    self vandalisation get's picked up by smoke detector chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11540/charcoal-hq, but this would be only if the post is bumped in the active page (not meaning the review queue). so I would say it would have to be a min rep on editing someone else's post. Although it is unlikely for a higher rep user to self vandalise. I often have wanted to tidy up an off topic post, that has just been closed, but don't want to bump it into the review queue, when the edit won't make it on topic.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 22:36
  • Do we have any data on reputation levels of rage-quitters who went out on a burst of vandalism? Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 23:57
  • @JonathanLeffler I can't imaging it would be significant. But that's my imagination, not cold hard facts :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 9:01
  • 1
    @IanRingrose Totally agree on your first part - our development team is plenty agile enough to adapt to small UI changes. As for a custom feed, we're currently operating from the realtime websocket SE provides, which shouldn't be affected.
    – ArtOfCode
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 13:01
  • 2
    This appears to have now been implemented as per the Review queue workflows - Final release (hence the [status-completed] added by @Baum)
    – Didier L
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 23:12

3 Answers 3

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First off, your request assumes that all edits bump a closed question into the Reopen Votes queue. That's not true. Edits during the 5-day on-hold period place a question into the queue.

Secondly, this request seems to imply that such edits would waste reviewer time. While that may be true, Reopen Votes is one of the loneliest queues (watch the purple line):

enter link description here

There's no reason to prevent questions from entering the queue with such low levels of activity. And, in actuality, there are quite a few old closed questions that should be reopened. If anything, the criteria for putting questions in the queue should be expanded, not narrowed.

13
  • This is very useful, thanks hichris123. I gathered my information about the review queues from the SO Close Vote Reviewers chatroom, a couple of days ago. If I wanted to avoid bumping closed questions into the queue that were closed correctly, should I just edit the ones that are at least five days old?
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 7:17
  • 1
    To add to my earlier comment, I think in SOCVR there is a view that editing closed posts would indeed waste reviewer time - I popped in there to request a CV and someone pointed to a recent edit of mine to ask that closed posts are not edited. Of course, this view could be "wrong" from a overall perspective, but these folks are doing a lot of good editing and voting.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 8:17
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    @halfer intersting. I'm not sure if I agree with that view in general. I mean, if a closed (or on hold) question can be salvaged by editing that should be the call of action and members of the SOCVR should know that. But it the edit is nothing more then to get some rep (for < 2K) or badges, it is a waste of time for anyone. I assume you refer to this comment for which I understand raising their concern.
    – rene
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 8:50
  • @rene one aspect to consider is that there can be suggested edits to held posts, which might be improvements, yet don't make the post more on-topic/answerable. It would be nice to be able to reject-and-edit/improve these edits in a way that doesn't push the post into the reopen queue. Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 8:57
  • @halfer I only make a comment on suggested edits that offer no value to a very poor question, that is likely to be closed and deleted. Especially tag edits. It's like washing a car before it's taken to the wreckers, it serves no useful purpose.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 8:59
  • 2
    @Yvette: but I do think editing may serve a purpose - two in fact. One, is that it indicates to posters how to write a good question (reasonable spelling and case, trim txtspk, chat and begging, useful inline and block formatting, etc.). Two, it improves the readability for future readers who may still find the material useful even if it is too broad etc.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 9:01
  • @halfer not if it is an unsalvageable question, there are plenty of decent questions, that need formatting, but they take more work that small edits on lousy short posts. If it's unlikely to be deleted any time soon, it's worth a decent edit. But then this brings up the whole suggested edit debate.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 9:03
  • @rene: yes, that was the comment that prompted this question.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 9:50
  • @AndrasDeak: I've been thinking about your feedback on this now deleted question regarding editing closed questions (and the issue of adding LQ questions to the review queue). I'd like to capture the essence of your perspective on this page, if that's alright with you. Would you add another answer here, to contrast with hichris123's more liberal approach to editing?
    – halfer
    Commented Sep 18, 2017 at 17:31
  • @halfer done Commented Sep 18, 2017 at 19:14
  • Nice graph, but the main problem with this answer is that editing on-hold question with cosmetic improvements (not making it on-topic) is that you are stealing OP's chance to get it on-topic (add new info) before it enters reopen queue. If you like to help and teach OP instead pass comments to explain what info is missing. Commented Sep 22, 2017 at 10:54
  • The reopen queue seems to have the most activity of the queues shown in your graph, not the least. Your graph needs to show the more active queues for it to be meaningful. Commented Nov 25, 2017 at 21:55
  • Side note: the exactly even spacing on those spikes in the first-posts queue is extremely suspicious. Is that a data anomaly or a spammer on a timer? Commented Nov 25, 2017 at 21:58
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I've sometimes seen a single minor typo or something in an old post and not fixed it, because it was a low-quality post that I didn't want to bump to the front page and waste everyone's time with.

I know this meta question is about something different, but it's related.

The / / tags are low enough volume that I follow them by just refreshing a single OR search on several tags, so even negative-score questions pollute my list of recent questions when an old post is edited.

So I'd love to be able to make minor edits without bumping the question. Obviously these edits still need at least some kind of review to catch misbehaviour in a reasonable timeframe, but that can be separate from bumping to the front page, right?

3
  • OK, thanks Peter, agree with all of this. Whilst the 5-day limit is not something I knew about, and arguably makes the feature request less important, I would like to see this anyway. Plenty of "dump and run" first-time posters will only see educating-type edits if they are done promptly, and if I need to wait five days they may have long gone.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 17:42
  • 1
    @halfer: I think the options for no-reopen-queue and no-front-page-bump should be separate. When editing recent questions, it's usually appropriate to bump them on the front page, even if not to reopen. Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 20:08
  • 1
    Good point. My main aim is to avoid disturbing the queue, though I suppose for much the same reasons I would ideally like to avoid the front page as well. However if we can have the first and not the second I'd be happy!
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 20:25
8

As I recently expressed in the comment thread of a now-deleted question, I believe we should be somewhat conservative when editing closed posts until this feature is implemented (and this answer is mostly intended to contrast with hichris123's answer).

I agree that editing old closed posts is harmless from the perspective of the review queues, but we should keep in mind that every edit bumps questions to the front page (there are feature requests to fix this too). So editing old closed posts will still make users waste their time looking at these posts.

Most importantly though, editing freshly closed questions, as we know, will put those questions into the reopen queue. And as we know, this only happens the first time a post is edited; this means that cosmetic changes made to low-quality questions only waste the time of reviewers in the reopen queue, and when later the asker fixes their post the question stays closed since this trigger only happens on the very first edit (not that this happens too often, if I have to guess).

Regarding the argument that the reopen queue is typically light and can handle the load: just because a given review queue is less strained than the rest doesn't mean that we should waste the time of reviewers. Editing low-quality (or at least non-answerable or ill-fitting) closed questions in a way that doesn't make them answerable is a waste of time. It's a waste of time for the editor, because the post will stay closed. It's a waste of time for the reviewers, since the question is already known to deserve closure. Askers won't have an easier job fixing their questions, and frankly I don't believe in any educational aspects of editing low-quality questions. If in one of the (ostensibly very few) cases the asker actually fixes their question, they should not have their edit go unnoticed just because someone had thought that there were too many capitalization mistakes in the original off-topic question.

So my point is that as long as this feature request (and similar ones along these lines) is not implemented, we should strive not to edit closed posts especially in the first five days (unless the edit makes the post eligible for permanent reopening). Educate askers and editors in comments, reopen generously when merited, reject suggested edits regardless of their quality as long as the edits don't allow to reopen the question.

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  • 1
    @halfer thanks, I clarified that sentence. Commented Sep 18, 2017 at 19:22
  • Great stuff. Just to let you know I am still pondering this, and wonder if it might attract some comments so I can see what other folks think. Out of interest (and now I've re-read my old question here), what is your view about rolling back freshly closed questions where there is insults about the closure, or general question vandalism? I would say in those cases, the rollback trumps the disturbance of the review queue.
    – halfer
    Commented Sep 21, 2017 at 11:28
  • 1
    @halfer sure, take your time. As for harmful edits: of course, in those cases bumping the post is of secondary concern, and in those cases OP had already edited their question so even the review aspect is irrelevant. My point above is basically "don't edit closed posts if it doesn't really improve anything". Rolling back (self-)vandalism is definitely an improvement by any standard. Commented Sep 21, 2017 at 12:32
  • 1
    Alright, well you received support in SOCVR when I asked for opinions, so I will give way on this. I am minded to edit >5 day old closed Qs where I find one that needs editing, partly because I've not yet had a complaint about this, and any "front page disturbance" is to my mind only theoretical. But to preserve the OPs ability to get a shot at reopening, I will refrain from editing newly closed posts.
    – halfer
    Commented Sep 22, 2017 at 9:20

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