51

This question is not about the merits of my answer to the questions discussed below, nor about the specific questions involved. It's about creating greater parity between answers to duplicate questions.

Background

I answered this question, which was closed as a duplicate of this question.

Indeed, the questions are very similar and inspired similar answers. It is correct to close one as a duplicate of the other.

I believe my answer, which I provided years later to the question that was closed-as-duplicate is the only one that completely addresses the issue. That is the case because it leverages a Windows API that was not available when the original questions were asked.

The two questions, which are essentially identical, are asymmetrical in terms of the ease of finding additional answers. If I stumble across the closed question, there is a prominent link pointing to additional relevant answers of the open question. If I find the open question though, the link is much less obvious, in the right-hand column.

Search Bias

The question with the less-useful answers was viewed 254635 times, while the question with the more-useful answer was viewed 133915 times. People are not finding the most useful answer as frequently as perhaps they should.

Can We Do Better?

When closing questions, "The question with less valuable content should be closed as a duplicate of the question with more valuable content." (source), but that is currently a determination made by the person(s) voting to close, at the time they perform the close.

Is there a better way to highlight potentially useful answers that are attached to the closed question?

Perhaps place a link, as prominent as the "This question already has an answer here" box that appears at the top of a closed question at the top of the still-open question, pointing to any duplicates that have substantially upvoted answers?

I imagine there would be substantial issues merging the two questions and answer sets together. Perhaps though highly upvoted answers of the closed questions could be visually merged in the answer to the still-open question with a link back to the original question(s)?

Other thoughts on how we can give good answers on closed-as-duplicate questions more equal visibility?

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  • 9
    Gold badgers are trusted to get it right. That applies to you as well, you can trivially fix this. Just re-open the question and dup-vote the way you prefer it. Commented May 16, 2016 at 21:04
  • 1
    This question is not about the merits of my answer to the questions discussed below. Relying on useful information to be manually reorganized doesn't seem like the best solution.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 21:06
  • 18
    Hard to imagine that automation can do a better job of it. Google certainly doesn't. It does take people like @Rob and you to step up to the plate. Commented May 16, 2016 at 21:08
  • 3
    We have information in the Stackexchange system that Google probably doesn't leverage, the collective opinions of many experts as to the quality of each answer to all of the linked-via-closure questions. Both of my suggestions would leverage that information in an automatable manner. It took me 3 years to even notice that the situation exists, and it was very coincidental that I even noticed it now. I don't spend much of my day managing my old StackExchange answers. I don't imagine many people do.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 21:12
  • @EricJ. I think you are likely correct. I have not been around for very long on SO, and I already have so many answers. I recently checked my list of deleted answers and was surprised to see that there were quite a few there that I had no clue were deleted (many likely at 0 votes with the question). Unless I get a notification that something happened, I have no clue at all.
    – Laurel
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 21:40
  • 6
    If you notice a great answer on a dupe closed question that the original can benefit from, flag the question and ask for a merger, explaining that the specific answer would be beneficial to the original question. Both questions would remain, but the answer(s) would be moved. This of course only makes sense if the answer isn't already on the dupe target.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 22:08
  • 3
    As far as automation, I don't see how that would really be very beneficial. If you just automagically move answers from the dupe to the target, you'll end up with a ton of duplicate (and likely low quality) answers which could make things worse, not better. Someone has to inspect the answers being moved to make sure they are of good enough quality to move.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 22:13
  • 3
    @KevinB Merging is irreversible and typically avoided unless the questions are literally identical, or it's the same asker. The conditions are rarely ideal for merging, and you will get rejected (which is the right action for the mod to take, IMHO).
    – Laurel
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 22:48
  • 3
    @Laurel - That is incorrect. In the case of an exact post such as this, merging is the best option. "how we can give good answers on closed-as-duplicate questions more equal visibility?" Merging. If a merge is not the solution then the answer probably doesn't merit having more visibility, or the questions are not duplicates.
    – Travis J
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 23:11
  • @TravisJ: I'm not suggesting to automatically move or highlight all answers to all duplicates, but rather find an approach that doesn't rely on human intervention to give more visibility to answers that are deemed useful by virtue of the mechanism we already have in place, the up-vote. If you have a threshold (e.g. +10 score) for an answer to be somehow made more visible on the still-open question, you don't have the issue of many low-quality answers cluttering that question. I'm also not proposing copying the answers, but something more akin to a symbolic link.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 23:19
  • @TravisJ Note that I don't make the rules. What I said about mods and merging is explained here: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/312126
    – Laurel
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 23:35
  • @Laurel - You certainly did not, I agree. Most of the rules are hand carved in stone by Shog9. meta.stackexchange.com/a/148209/178816
    – Travis J
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 23:43
  • 1
    Why not delete your answer to the less-visible, dup-closed question and post it on the more visible question? Commented May 17, 2016 at 3:55
  • 1
    @Lundin: Even though I have a "vested interest" in this question, I didn't even notice the situation until 3 years after I answered the question. My concern isn't for this specific question. I have tools as a high rep user, now that I'm aware of the situation, to manually improve the situation. My worry is for similar questions out there where good/better answers are relatively hidden on the closed question.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 14:22
  • 1
    @EricJ. The problem with using a threshold is that answer votes aren't an absolute measure. They function ok to indicate the relative merit of the answers to a given question but they can't accurately be used to compare answers from different questions. Please see my comment on maaartinus's answer for more thoughts on this topic.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 9:06

5 Answers 5

37

I'll chime in since I was the one who did the closing. I spent quite a while reading over both questions and answers before casting the close vote.

I'm happy to have the direction reversed if the general consensus is that the other question is a better target, however, my reasons for closing were:

  1. The target has many more views, despite being younger.
  2. The target contains the exception text, rather than just IOException.
  3. The target is worded in a more natural way for the majority of people - though I do concede the other question does have a more 'technical' explanation
  4. The other question's top answer is essentially saying 'The check is useless' - which, while may be true, isn't that helpful for the majority of applications, where a failure due to a race condition is an acceptable scenario and/or very rare.
  5. The target contains (for the most part, and excluding your answer, of course), more detailed explanations of the same solutions in the other question

That being said, after closing the question, I did in-fact think for a while above custom flagging your answer to have it migrated to the new question. I did not get around to it, but perhaps that is the best way to go, if such a migration would be permitted.

I would be hesitant about an automated banner/link, as that would introduce a lot of extra information to parse, and in most cases it would probably be redundant. In this case, it would need to show at least 3 alternative solutions at the top for yours to appear, and it would include this answer which is already present (and more detailed) in the current question.

It really does seem like it should be a manual process - even if closers/answers are given a notification that they might want to submit a merge/migration request if their answer fulfills particular criteria.

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  • 4
    If the process does remain manual to "pull across" certain answers into the non-closed question, it should probably be made more apparent to the closer that this is an option. I hear and understand the comments that you and others make about promoting redundant and/or junky answers. You were very diligent in your review of both questions and in the actions you took. I'm not sure that such diligence is always applied.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 2:07
  • I still feel that the system should do more to ensure that high-quality answers (as judged by upvotes) don't get buried in a closed question. Perhaps a custom merge flag can be auto-raise if an answer to a closed question exceeds a certain score. Perhaps a new queue to select and move good answers to duplicates would make sense. Perhaps the current system is just fine, but it doesn't feel that way to me at this point.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 2:08
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Frankly, it seems to me that the root of the general problem is that, just as the person asking the question should have searched for and found the duplicate before asking the question, so too should anyone answering the question search for and find the duplicate before answering the question. Part of the solution should really be to focus on making it easier to find duplicates in the first place (and even to leverage that improvement to do a better job warning users against posting duplicate questions).

That said, the particular situation being used as an example here is unique, or at least an extremely rare scenario. The marked duplicate is actually older than the target, while typically we mark a duplicate when it's posted recently, and use an earlier Q&A as the target. Similarly, this question got marked as a duplicate well after the question was asked, and even a few years after the most recent useful answer.

As such, it's going to be a bit messy. It was closed according to the best effort of the person who closed it, based on his review and assessment of the relative qualities of both questions. With so many answers on such an old pair of questions, it seems like there probably isn't a way to pick the duplicate and target perfectly.

But for the common case, there really doesn't need to be much ceremony or special highlighting. People shouldn't in general be answering questions that are duplicates; they should look for the duplicate and if found but lacking in some specific detail, they should post their answer there and not on the new question. Again, this doesn't apply in this specific example, which is more complex, but rules need to apply to the common case, not the exceptional case.

For those scenarios where things have gotten out of hand and two separate but identical questions have in fact elicited high-quality answers, I agree with the comments that merging is the best solution. But in the rare case that that for some reason just isn't workable, I find your other suggestion to be reasonable:

Perhaps place a link, as prominent as the "This question already has an answer here" box that appears at the top of a closed question at the top of the still-open question, pointing to any duplicates that have substantially upvoted answers?

Of course, there remains the question of what "substantially upvoted" means. I would propose requiring a score of at least 10, but really the main thing is to make sure we avoid cluttering the target question with more than a few back-links to marked duplicates. It's possible a lower threshold would suffice for that.

And naturally, the biggest question is: what do we really gain from adding such a feature? How common a problem is this, really? I agree it exists, but the vast majority of marked duplicates really don't add anything at all to their targets. Maybe it's sufficient that these rare cases already show up in search results, and that those search results already report the vote count (and can even be sorted by that vote count).

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    anyone answering the question search for and find the duplicate before answering the question I doubt that even a small fraction of people answering questions first search for a duplicate. Unless it is made extremely easy to find duplicates, I don't think it's even appropriate to make that demand. People dedicate some slice of their valuable time to providing answers. We lose out on total time to provide answers if we require a non-trivial portion of that time be spent searching for duplicates. I do agree that the question poster rightly has that obligation.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 23:34
  • How common a problem is this, really? I would love to dig in and do some analytics (rate of highly upvoted answers in closed-as-duplicate questions). Unfortuanately, I just don't have enough time to dedicate to SO this week to learn the query system and find that answer. "How common a problem is this" is really the key here.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 23:36
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    " I doubt that even a small fraction of people answering questions first search for a duplicate" -- I won't dispute that at all. That doesn't change the fact that they should. Too many people on the site are too eager to post their answer so that they get that checkmark and maybe some upvotes and won't spend the time to make sure they aren't cluttering the site with duplicates. It's the answerer equivalent to the people who are too lazy to do their own research; they prioritize their own concerns much higher than those of the community. :( Commented May 17, 2016 at 23:40
  • 1
    "We lose out on total time to provide answers" -- answering questions that already have answers isn't helpful to site quality. So that lost time isn't hurting anyone. Indeed, if more people would spend more time moderating rather than just blindly answering whatever question comes up, we'd have a much higher-quality site. Instead, questioners are encouraged to ask whatever question they want, regardless of novelty, because they know someone will answer it just to get the rep, and there are few enough people who care about site quality to find all the duplicates before they are answered. Commented May 17, 2016 at 23:45
  • there are few enough people who care about site quality I agree that we should encourage people to care about quality and provide them with tools to help manage quality. We can't build our system around the assumption that many more people will dedicate time to manage quality than already do.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 0:00
  • "We can't build our system around the assumption that many more people will dedicate time to manage quality than already do" -- Maybe not. But nor should we cater to the contingent of people who will not, but more precisely, to the contingent of people who not only will not dedicate time to manage quality, but who insist on ignoring quality in their pursuit of answers or reputation. Commented May 18, 2016 at 0:04
4

Part of the issue is that the current system in none reversible, therefore there is a great risk of getting it wrong. So mod will only merge an answer into the “target” question if the case for doing so is very clear.

If we had a system that allows answers to be displayed “as if” they were answers of the target question without the answer being moved to the target question and this system was as quick to “undo” as it was enable for a given answer, then we could consider giving more people the power to use it.

At present few people know about using a flag to get answers merged, this is a good thing, as the mods are limited, so lots of requests would overburden them.

Therefore what about:

  • Making display of answer on the target question reversible.
  • Prompting anyone that votes to close, to consider and mark any answer that should be displayed on the target.
  • Allow the above to be done by everyone that has the power to close a question if it is missed at close time.
  • Having a new queue that is only accessible by gold badge holders that allows them to process the above for their “gold tags”
  • Having an auto generated mod flag if any question remains in the above queue for too long.

However this would need a lot of UI, so would be costly to implement.

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  • "the current system [is] [non-]reversible" Only merges. The vast majority of dupes are not merged and I don't think the OP is necessarily suggesting that a full merge needs to be the solution here! Commented May 17, 2016 at 10:52
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit, if his good answer was shown on both questions, then the choose of the question to use as the "master" would be a lot less important. Commented May 17, 2016 at 10:57
  • Yep, agreed. That could work. Commented May 17, 2016 at 11:06
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    Exactly. The current system is a move. I envision a system that's more like a symbolic link, with only answers deemed good by virtue of significant upvotes receiving the symbolic link treatment.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 14:18
  • 1
    The idea of displaying the answers to questions closed as duplicates is exactly what I was thinking about; however two questions might be slightly different in their wording and therefore the answer might not exactly fit (it might contain quotes of the other questions), so I think it should be displayed carefully: (a) with a banner linking to the question it actually answers and (b) with a "trick" preventing downvotes and comments (requiring the user to visit the question it answers to downvote/comment). (b) is there to avoid noise... Commented May 19, 2016 at 9:32
3

I started to comment on the OP's comment on this answer and saw it's getting too long.

Symlinking sounds like the best option. Copying is out of question (for the same reasons as copypasta programming). Moving automatically is hard (Move everything to the non-closed question? What if the questions differ in a way making some answers to Q1 inappriate for Q2?).

Symlinking could be automated easily and always done (for efficiency, consider only top N answers and those having M+ upvotes). Let people vote on the symlink rather than (or in addition to) the question itself. If the answer is good, but doesn't fit with the inexact duplicate well, the symlink gets downvoted and falls down or even out.

Requested Explanations

how is it materially different from simply merging the two questions?

Symlinking means leaving everything in place and just showing answers from the closed question in the "original". Currently, the duplicate links to the "original". Symlinking would sort of merge answers to the duplicate question among answer to the original. Nothing would get moved nor copied, just shown.

Merging is hard as two questions may be same enough for one of them to be closed as a duplicate, yet different (or unclear enough) to allow answers appropriate for only one of them. AFAIK, merging can't be automated.

Symlinking can be automated easily as there's no modification to existing data (a new table would be needed for votes on those symlinks). So when anything goes wrong, it can be fixed with minimum effort (voting by the community should do).

is this a proposal for a new feature?

A new proposal (first given by the OP in a comment).

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  • @PeterDuniho Explanations added. You may be right in that the OP's case is extreme, but I've often found interesting information when looking at the duplicates.
    – maaartinus
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 0:41
  • Symlinking answers back to the dupe target could get messy and confusing. Some popular dupe targets are linked to dozens or even hundreds of dupes, in extreme cases the count runs into the thousands. Sure, many of those dupes don't have answers (or answers that are worth linking), but I suspect that in many cases the answers in popular dupe targets would be swamped by the symlinked answers. I suppose you could reduce the confusion a little by using a different background color (or some other styling convention) for the symlinked answers.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 8:56
  • (cont) But there's another problem: votes are used to rank the relative importance / usefulness of answers to a question, they are (generally) not an absolute measure that can be used to compare the answers of one question to another, especially when the questions were written years apart. A modern excellent answer may gather a few dozen upvotes, a simpler good answer from several years ago may easily have hundreds of upvotes. So mixing answers from different questions will make it hard to use vote counts to quickly find the best answers.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 9:02
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    @PM2Ring: The user has the same problem today assessing the value of votes, but must find all relevant duplicate questions in order to discover the universe of relevant answers. It should be possible to create a fairly simple algorithm that visually presents potentially relevant answers from linked questions, even though it could probably never be perfect. Finding a great algorithm would require studying the actual data. It could be something like "pick a maximum of 3 foreign answers based on score. They must have at least +10." For more complexity & accuracy normalize score based on age.
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 14:44
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    In some ways, such an approach would be similar to the Hot Meta Posts sidebar (and perhaps that would be the best way to present the data... hot answers to linked questions).
    – Eric J.
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 14:44
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    @PM2Ring Some algorithm should be found. It can't be perfect, but it can be better than forcing the users to follow all the links manually. As EricJ. wrote, limiting the number of symlinked answers, requiring them to have some minimum score, and vote aging should help.
    – maaartinus
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 16:43
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    @EricJ. Agreed. Moreover, vote aging would profit SO in general. Maybe like follows: Leave the rep as is (so that people don't get angry and confused about losing rep over time), but sort the answers according to a time weighted score. This way new good answers would get a chance to get to the top.
    – maaartinus
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 16:48
1

Is there a better way to highlight potentially useful answers that are attached to the closed question?

Maybe by giving a way to 10k users to migrate—or copy—answers that have 5+ votes to the question that has been duplicated.

That process would probably require an optional edit in between. Or you could have a small banner above the copied content that would explain that the question is being mirrored from a duplicate question.

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    Nice idea, but... I don't think I've seen an answer in my neck of the woods (hardware description languages) with 5+ votes given since I've been a member (3 months). Usually there is only one answer and it rarely will have more than 2 votes.
    – Matthew
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:55
  • @MatthewTaylor you can lower the threshold but it has to remain sufficiently high.
    – Knu
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 15:06

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