97

There's a community wiki question I created a long time ago, which I often use as a target when closing other questions as dupes:

But it's really hard to find this question in search results from the Close popup. For example, from this question:

search results for "unexpectedly found nil"

search results for "what does fatal error unexpectedly"

search results for "error unwrapping optional"

Finally, the right incantation:

search results for "what does unexpectedly found nil mean"

I'd expect to be able to find it with just a couple words for a search term. Shouldn't having so many others closed as dupes of it make it more highly ranked? Is there anything that can be done to improve the dupe search?

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    Yeah that search thing is useless. I never use it, I rather do a quick google search and then copy the Q id.
    – Rizier123
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 1:51
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    If it's true for everyone, maybe this is a bug :)
    – jtbandes
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 1:52
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    It's currently 6th hit with this Google search. Commented May 14, 2016 at 1:55
  • 15
    What's really stupid is the one time I knew that something was a dupe because it was posted with the exact same title a few hours earlier, by the same author. Could not find it in the search.
    – Laurel
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 2:29
  • 6
    consider adding canonical tag here. I would add it myself but all five slots are taken and none of them looks like an easy candidate for replacement (and yes I really hate it when canonical question turns out difficult to find for dupe-closing)
    – gnat
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 5:19
  • 35
    StackOverflow search is pretty much broken... I always Google.
    – Spikatrix
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 8:16
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    I never use that search thingy, it's completely broken. I start by using the real SO search adding relevant tags, sorting by votes, etc. and then I turn to Google.
    – Tunaki
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 8:23
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    Your desired dupe target appears in the "frequent" tab for swift. Perhaps the sort order for that dialogue should weight choices higher if they have frequently been the target of dupe closures. Commented May 14, 2016 at 13:50
  • 3
    Just about nobody remembers what search was like before Google showed up. AltaVista baby, never less than a million hits. Ugh. They did raise the bar to heights nobody can touch, raising everybody's expectation how search should work as well. It doesn't. Commented May 14, 2016 at 14:46
  • @MartinSmith I would like that. That duplicate modal use the most linked. But I'm worried that in some cases that would pollute the results for the less frequent duplicates (like git results to swift question)
    – Braiam
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 21:20
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    It might be broken/a bug, because I once (only once, though) had trouble finding What is a NPE? even though it probably is the question with most duplicates linked to it with the Java tag. I did a Google search and linked it instead.
    – RaminS
    Commented May 15, 2016 at 21:47
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    I give up trying to use it a long time ago, Google works 99% of the time.
    – user692942
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 9:25
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    The search just need some love. This academic paper shows an easy to implement strategy that brings nice results. It's really easy. I've implemented a similar approach as a homework at my master's degree using SO dumps.
    – Zanon
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 12:18
  • 1
    Could the search engine be improved to be add a weighing for upvote score of the dupe target, as well as simply keywords contained in it? E.g. when you searched originally for "unexpectedly found nil", all the possibilities shown are 6 votes or less, whereas the one you're looking for is 12 votes. If the net score of the question was used as a multiplier, it could push it further up the suggestion list. Commented May 16, 2016 at 14:36
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    In addition to using Google to search for dupes, I also "Favorite" the ones that get duplicated often. Makes it even quicker to get the URL of the question I want to use as my dupe-hammer. Commented May 16, 2016 at 16:05

6 Answers 6

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We had a bug in the popup - when getting search results the relevance sort order (coming from ElasticSearch) was inadvertently lost and the results were ordered by their Ids.

This of course is completely wrong - I have restored the original sort order to the results, which is what you can see now.

We can think of further improvements if and as needed (some good suggestions here).

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    Does this solve this problem too meta.stackexchange.com/questions/232242/… ?
    – user353608
    Commented Jun 1, 2016 at 13:39
  • @Iain - yes, it does.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 1, 2016 at 13:44
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    Thanks but my key take away from this is to ask on mSO and not mSE as it's 2 years quicker :(
    – user353608
    Commented Jun 1, 2016 at 13:50
  • Wow, much better!
    – jtbandes
    Commented Jun 1, 2016 at 14:38
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Because we are filled with so much crap that finding an appropriated duplicate is increasingly difficult. Notice how many of those questions have more or less the same title and none of them are closed. Of course, the elastic search engine isn't smart enough (or maybe wasn't designed) to use the really relevant matches, instead of going out of its way to pull a git question (I mean, git, really?). As always you can weep into a corner or try to edit the questions so they only have the really relevant keywords on them, and hope. Ah, and deletion, copious amounts of deletion.

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    I keep a folder of bookmarks for the most common questions I need as duplicate targets. When what I need is not in there and is hard to find, though, it's easier to answer the question than find the duplicate. Maybe there should be another Mjölnir privilege, the ability to temporarily mark a question as a "known dup" for up to 10 minutes and during that time people are prevented from answering (the question is on hold) while the duplicate is found. If not closed as a duplicate, the hold is released. If there's already an answer, the hold can't be applied. Comments can be added. Commented May 14, 2016 at 15:25
  • 2
    I agree, but I don't think this is really an answer.
    – jtbandes
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 21:27
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    @jtbandes "Why is it so hard to find this dupe-target?" "Because crap"
    – Braiam
    Commented May 14, 2016 at 21:28
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    @JonathanLeffler: I like your idea. If a question gets closed as duplicate within those 10 minutes, then involved people should get 1 or 2 rep. This way we would finally have some incentive to close duplicates instead of answering them after the 10 minutes.
    – honk
    Commented May 15, 2016 at 2:31
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    The meta population is an interesting sociological phenomenon. So large group of people who deny the reality. And thus these people fiercely react to any answer that is based on the actual reality and thus contradicts with their delusions. Commented May 15, 2016 at 8:56
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    @YourCommonSense: I can't figure out what you're talking about. What is the "answer that is based on the actual reality" that you're referring to? It obviously can't be the one you're commenting on, since there are no "fierce reactions" here . . .
    – ruakh
    Commented May 15, 2016 at 19:48
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    @ruakh: I refer you to the first paragraph of his/her profile blurb. Commented May 15, 2016 at 20:24
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    FWIW, in the Python chat room we maintain a collection of canonical dupe targets. It's not perfect, but it's getting better.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 11:26
  • @JonathanLeffler: I keep most of my good-dup-targets list in the x86 tag wiki FAQ section, which I added. But I should probably start thinking about bookmarking good ones when I see them, since not all good dup targets are interesting / common enough to be in the tag wiki. Commented May 16, 2016 at 12:53
  • @honk & could possibly given them more rep, if user travels from the closed dupe -> canonical target & upvotes that question or an answer there (as the dupe link has shown itself helpful to future users). Commented May 16, 2016 at 14:33
  • @anotherdave: Be careful with handing out too much rep. Users might start closing everything as duplicate...
    – honk
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 14:38
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    @honk maybe, though IMO +2 rep isn't going to encourage people to flag as a dupe when they know that they can get +25 rep (from the OP alone, plus more from any other upvotes) by giving a quick answer; especially when it's more work to track down a dupe than give an answer sometimes. Commented May 16, 2016 at 14:42
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    @anotherdave: I was extending Jonathan's idea where you are blocked for 10 minutes from answering. YMMV, but I would try to look for a duplicate in this time span to get +2 rep, because it often doesn't take longer than making a good edit.
    – honk
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 14:52
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    While crap does make the target harder to find, I've personally encountered many cases where the obvious duplicate target was buried. The whole goal of search is to elevate relevance above the crap, and it often seems like factors such as prior history as a duplicate target are not being given appropriate weight.
    – Brad Koch
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 16:42
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    There's a very specific error message here. A simple string matching search should work, but quotation marks interfere with the search, it seems. This is an issue that's come up before. This happens even when there's no crap to sift through. SO claims to want specific errors described in questions, and then makes it hard to search for specific error messages. It's rather frustrating. Commented May 16, 2016 at 17:10
10

While the SO search never seems to be great, the quotation marks in the title might make this harder than it needs to be, too. I've run into this before too, as I described in a MSE question: How can I search for questions with the error message "application: not a procedure" in the Scheme tag? And I ran into this for very similar reasons: a very specific error message that's got a canonical answer or two, but it's very difficult to find. From that question:

I've got a specific error message for this question, but shouldn't, if Stack Overflow asks for specific programming problems and for users to include results (including error messages), it be a bit easier to search for specific error messages?

There are two linked bug reports that show how this can be particularly frustrating (and bizarre):

9

If people like this, it can become a question in its own right, so it can be tagged feature request.

We have a problem finding duplicate targets. However most of these have already been used to close other questions as duplicates.

  • Therefore add a check box “Only show questions that are current duplicate targets”
  • Default the checkbox to be ticked
  • Find questions that have been most used as duplicate targets, with at least 1 tag in common, and matching the search string.

I am also thinking that a machine learning system may be able to be trained to find the 10 most likely questions to be used as a duplicate target for a given question.

1

Check out stackse - search engine for stackoverflow which might be a good tool for finding duplicates. (Or at least one more additional tool.)

Disclosure: it's my pet project.

-82

Here's a radical suggestion: instead of investing so much time trying to find the duplicate question, why not spend less time and just answer it? (Especially as, in my experience, quite often the duplicate is no such thing: the answers to the supposed duplicate question do not answer the original question.) That way the questioner gets the answer they're looking for and doesn't get the feeling that they've just walked into an unfriendly, locals-only bar.

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    If finding the duplicate would be easier, it would be possible to save even more time.
    – Stefnotch
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 9:39
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    More often than not, answers that appear on questions that could be closed as dupes of a canonical one are terse and only answer the question asked directly, while the answers on the canonical dupe tend to explain the problem in depth, helping the OP of the question even more in the long run. Having duplicate questions point to those long, in depth answers helps everyone in the long run, as they should in theory end up being easier to be found, with multiple ways of asking all pointing at the detailed answer. Commented May 16, 2016 at 10:34
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    While it's true that dupe questions are often closed with poor dupe targets, the solution (IMHO) isn't to throw in the towel and just answer the new question. We need to make it easier for people to find good dupe targets, and it would be nice if people were rewarded for that effort by rep &/or badges. Of course, there's the intangible reward of doing the Right Thing for its own sake, but that wears a bit thin after a while.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 10:39
  • 1
    BTW, I'm not saying that one should never answer a dupe: sometimes the existing answers don't match the new question well so the new question does deserve its own answer. Or the required information is spread over several answers in the selected dupe target, so a new answer that synthesizes and summarizes that information is warranted. But such a summary answer can just as easily be posted to the dupe target as to the new question.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 10:40
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    Because the site isn't a "grab a ticket and queue" service. It's here to help programmers who want to learn and will never do so if they don't research that answer for themselves first. If people researched before posting (properly researched, and tried things - not look for a google result that they can copy/paste into their own code) then we wouldn't have anywhere near as many dupes and could spend more time answering the other questions! Commented May 16, 2016 at 11:24
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    Perhaps you don't fully appreciate why it's desirable to have the answers to a question concentrated on one page. Not only is it annoying to have to trawl through a large list of linked questions reading all the answers, it makes it much harder to know what's the best answer, since the voting system functions best when all the answers are actually on the one page. That's not such a big deal for someone who's already familiar with the material and just needs their memory jogged, but for a newbie it can be bewildering when there's not a clear consensus.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 11:45
  • @PM 2Ring I can see why it's desirable, but it seems strange to me that that takes priority over actually helping people. Marking a question as a duplicate rarely does help people, because the supposed duplicate is rarely anything of the sort, so (and this is really important) the answers do not help the questioner, or worse (which was the case with the first question I ever asked on this site) the answers to the supposed duplicate are actually wrong. Had someone else not spotted this, I would have been given the wrong answer. But, the consensus is very clearly the opposite, so so be it.
    – Matthew
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 15:57
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    If the dupe target isn't a good match, then say so in the comments. If it is a reasonable match, but you need further help to understand & implement the info in the answers, comment &/or edit your question. A core principle of Stack Exchange is that the questions and answers should benefit future readers, not just the OP. Yes, we want to help the OP, but we also want to help the possibly thousands of future readers who have a similar question. To do that effectively we need to concentrate the answers, not have them spread out over all the dupe question pages.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 16:04
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    This suggestion defeats the point of the site. The goal is to ultimately, over time, have a collection of relatively unique questions (there's always going to be dupes and that's ok, but not hundreds or thousands!) and the world's very best answers and relevant comments, viewed and criticized and scrutinized and curated and updated by tens of thousands of developers. Not just the answers of whatever bozo happens to be around to answer right now when the question is asked. That mission is destroyed by allowing dupes run wild.
    – Pekka
    Commented May 16, 2016 at 18:21
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    Re: "that takes priority over actually helping people" -- as per the above two comments, we are interested in helping many people in the long run. Each (unclosed) question really should help (multiple) people, not just one person. Commented May 16, 2016 at 18:45
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    Unbelievable that you have received 79 downvotes for this. Unbelievable. Commented May 10, 2019 at 1:50

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