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I got served with this audit today in the close vote queue.

Apparently the action it wanted me to pick was "Leave open"

I was not review banned for failing this, but lacking a process to dispute audits, I'm bringing it up regardless. It more and more seems to me that the only way to avoid getting review banned here is to click through any link and cheese finding out what is and isn't an audit.

I think that this question is about general computing software and hardware (basicly asking about a bug in a certain version of Xcode). As far as the close reasons and prior precedent state, this is a closeable question.

Another layer of evidence to that effect would be the VLQ answer it attracted as only answer.

Who upvotes such stuff?

The amount of bogus audits lately is getting a little old and tiring.

2 Answers 2

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There are a few issues to address here:

  • Is this question on topic?
  • Is this question answerable?
  • What's the deal with the votes?

Testflight is a distribution mechanism for deploying beta builds of iOS applications to testers before release. It's now integrated with Apple's other development tools and is only used by developers in the building and testing of their applications. I tend to regard that as being on topic for the site.

However, we're not really the place for everyone to dump their bug reports, so is there a question here that can be answered? Basically, I look at questions about bugs in development tools being on topic here if there's a way that non-employees can provide workarounds for these bugs that developers can use. In its original form, the last sentence of

Does anybody else have this problem?

really isn't a specific question that leads people to an answer, so I reworked that to

What is causing this and how can we prevent Testflight installs from failing with this error?

which will allow for the kinds of answers that people will find useful, and not just "me too" non-answers. I could see why you might have wanted to close the question based on the original wording there.

As to the votes, well, any time something breaks in a popular development tool, App Store, or other service, people flood here and upvote anything related to it. Anything that draws the interest of a lot of developers, constructive or not, will get a bunch of votes. For example look at the votes on this question and all the votes on each of the repeated answers (and all the duplicate questions).

Unfortunately, this can lead to bad or off topic questions getting voted up to a high enough degree that the system treats them as good audit cases. There's little we can do to separate off topic but highly-voted bug reports from truly good questions in the eyes of the system, short of voting to close them. Again, I don't think that's needed here with the wording I've given it, but it is an edge case the audit system doesn't handle well.

If only there was a way to dispute specific audit cases...

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  • Its almost as if the audit system really screws you if you don't cheese it or cheat it.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:00
  • 1
    @Magisch - In the vast majority of cases, audits work as they should. The truly controversial ones are almost always on questions in the Close Votes queue (which no user on SO was banned for at the time I examined these) or in triage. We didn't have audits for a while in the Close Votes queue, so people would go there and hit "close" as quickly as they could on as many questions as they could. Many good questions were incorrectly closed during this period (I personally reopened a ton of them), so you can thank those reviewers for these audits.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:09
  • So as a reviewer, what am I supposed to do? Raise every bogus CV audit on meta? Not use the CV queue? Just eat the inevitable review ban when it comes up? Just cheat audits with an userscript? None of these solutions sound acceptable to me.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:10
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    @Magisch - If you're banned from review due to a highly questionable close vote audit, you could use a custom moderator flag pointing to the audit and explaining why you feel it was terrible. If we agree, we can manually lift the ban. There have been cases where this pointed out voting rings propping up bad content or otherwise anomalous questions. If you really do feel that something needs to be brought to the attention of the community at large, people generally aren't shy about posting questions like this on Meta. Again, the rate of people getting actually banned due to these is pretty low.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:21
  • It happened to me just 2 days ago. You should know, you lifted the ban that time. I've heard about dozens of cases where people strongly disagree with audits, and had a handful myself. Its discouraging me heavily from the whole review process right now. If I was less scrupulous and more interested in just the badges, I wouldn't have these inconveniences.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:23
  • @Magisch if you are looking to do reviews either inside or outside of the queue, you know which chat room to come to :P
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:43
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I'm going to answer this with three quotes:

Your question:

I think that this question is about general computing software and hardware

The help center:

if your question generally covers…

...

software tools commonly used by programmers; and is

...

then you’re in the right place to ask your question!

https://developer.apple.com/xcode/ide/:

The Xcode IDE is at the center of the Apple development experience. Tightly integrated with the Cocoa and Cocoa Touch frameworks, Xcode is an incredibly productive environment for building amazing apps for Mac, iPhone, and iPad.

Xcode is an IDE. An IDE is a developer tool. Developer tools are commonly used by programmers.

An issue in a developer tool is something that developers have to work around.

Who upvotes such stuff?

People who have the same problem and want an answer.


I'm also going to address the inevitable "no MCVE" argument:

If you're an expert in this area, please post a comment explaining what else should be included to make the question answerable. Right now, the OP has no idea. I wouldn't either.

If you're not an expert, you have no place casting a close vote. If you couldn't defend your close vote to an expert in the field, don't vote.

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  • 1
    I don't need to be an expert to see that that question is trash. You don't need to know xcode specifically to know that off this information you can't get anything then reiterated bug reports and bogus not-an-answers as result. If this was in any other tag then ios, it would have been heavily downvoted and closed in minutes.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:10
  • @Magisch Okay. Explain to me why that question should be closed.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:11
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    TBH these "If you're not an expert" arguments are getting old. For the vast, vast majority of poor questions, you don't need any subject area knowledge to see wether or not they are closeworthy and DV worthy. This is one of them.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:13
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    @Magisch Let's say it's a bug in Xcode. It's preventing programmers from doing their job. Those programmers would like to do their job. No one seems to know, yet, what the problem is. If someone knew what information would help solve it, they would probably have the answer. Some problems are ambiguous, especially when they're a developing issue like this. We have a huge pool of experts here; let them figure out what's wrong and how to work around it. Don't cast judgment on something you don't know about.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:14
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    Undo, then still "I have a nonspecific app which I give no information about that produces a generic error on testers when compiled with this version of xcode" Its either a very widely known bug or useless because its lacking information
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:15
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    To be fair to you both, the question is a little broad and lacking specific detail. I certainly wouldn't find enough detail in it to be able to answer it, were I an expert on the subject. However, I'm not an expert, and an expert may have encountered the issue before and know what the cause is. Do we even know for certain it's a bug in Xcode? It should stay open.
    – ArtOfCode
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:19
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    So in conclusion, the question is bad and off topic, and the dupe target is still only barely on topic. So why is anyone defending this? If I got the accepted answer to that dupe in the VLQ queue, I'd probably vote to delete it as "should be a comment"
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:23
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    @Undo And why do you think asking a vague and nonspecific question is remotely ok to do on SO? Questions here are supposed to be clear and answerable, this one is neither
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:30
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    but how many bloogles should it oscillate at?
    – ArtOfCode
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:33
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    Look, let's stop beating around the bush here: XCode is a developer tool - no one's using it to write novels. XCode is buggy as all hell - judging by the questions we see on Stack Overflow, it frequently stops working in various ways for no discernible reason, requiring various sacrifices and supplications to get it going again. If you don't use XCode you probably can't judge a good XCode question - because if you have a brain in your head, it is entirely consumed by gratitude for your good fortune at not having to use XCode to be spending any thought on the question.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:43
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    I would certainly hope that questions about XCode would be frowned upon in, say, the winapi tag, @Magisch. What's your point?
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:53
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    You're complaining that you got audited on a topic you know nothing about, @Magisch. You could've skipped. What about all the XCode questions that aren't audits? Are you also not skipping those? I feel like I've written about this before...
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:26
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    Except you didn't even know that XCode was a programming tool when you started this discussion, @Magisch. So yeah, you're confident and all, but your confidence is misplaced. That's ok; audits are supposed to be a learning opportunity - learn!
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:33
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    There's an expression for what you're doing, @Magisch - it involves someone cleaning up by throwing out dirty bathwater without bothering to check if there was anything valuable in the tub first. You can't justify any action - least of all abject carelessness - with "I'M CLEANING HOUSE".
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:37
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    I've used XCode before. Not as extensively as I use Visual Studio, but I have used it. And I quite liked it. So I'm not really sure that XCode is the one with the problem. More likely it is the popularity explosion of iOS development, with "developers" who don't know what they're doing. Can't blame the tools for that.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 19, 2016 at 7:05

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