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My understanding was that the wording was not going to be changed, because this is : Rephrase Triage help text for "Should be improved" and "Unsalvageable "

I, for one, am very happy that this change has occurred. I'm wondering, why now all of a sudden?

Are there some numbers (invisible to us) that have made it clear that too many Should Be Improved Requires Editing questions were getting closed anyway?

Other related meta questions:

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    Well my request was more for the help text, not the actual button names? There is this other request for Renaming the Button that has no status flag.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:56

1 Answer 1

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It's the result of quite a bit of testing.

A lot of stuff that ends up in the helper queue doesn't really belong there. Sometimes this is because there was nothing really wrong with the question, but often not.

"Should be improved" doesn't really convey what's next in line for the question, and is rather ambiguous in wording. While some questions are complete literary masterpieces, you can find something to improve in almost all of them, and that's not a great label for a button that tasks other people to spend time on stuff that actually needs help. Likewise, some really unclear questions should be improved, but most productively as a whole new attempt at the question, if the question author didn't find their answer in the 'related' links and vanish.

We're testing a small change to the wording that we feel better conveys what's actually involved in the improvement process. By clicking it, you're tasking editors to get to work on it, and the new tooltip reflects that:

enter image description here

I didn't make a big announcement about it because it's a very small tweak, and while I have solid hopes that it's going to cut down on the noise going into the helper queue, it'll be at least 7 - 10 days before we can do another manual review from a random sampling to see.

But yes, we're both comprehensively testing and working on the efficacy of both triage and the helper queues. Because it takes questions close to a week to find their ultimate 'fate', it's slow going, but we are doing it.

The wording will likely stay the same since it is quite a bit better (though the tool tip might be refined) - if you see subtle changes like this, it's an artifact of us working on both queues in an effort to make them work optimally.

I'll status-* all the things once we're settled. For now, we're just doing a lot of iterative testing and tweaking.

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    "Requires editing" still leaves off one minor detail that everyone seems to agree is important: whether it is editing by anyone or by the poster.
    – davidism
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 17:21
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    @davidism I know, and that's deliberate. This is why we're doing these tests by manually looking at a ton of questions that got sent into the queue. This is "help central", and I don't want to actively discourage "OP forgot to mention a version" from going there unless data compels me to do it, and we're not yet there.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 17:24
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    @davidism In some samplings, questions that got only a comment while in the helper queue did much better than those that got edits. This confirms that the input is broken, but also confirms that quite a few forgetful authors actually watch their questions and respond to feedback productively. I'm not yet ready to gate those out wholesale.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 17:25
  • @davidism That has always urked me (as with many users). But this change could be the best option we have. I don't think there's a perfect wording only splitting the button to "Requires editing" and "Requires more info" with tooltips of "all users" and "author only" respectively. Splitting seems logical, as per other feature request(s), but we arguably already have "requires more info" (author) with "Recommend Deletion" and "Unclear what you're asking" (+ other close reasons).
    – James
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 18:19
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    This change does make choices in Triage easier except for one, a question technically does not Require Editing (by the author or someone else) and is not Unsalvageable, but is just Low Quality. Even the tooltips and descriptions don't explain what do in this case. I assume the correct action is Requires Editing but the tooltip and description should include this categorization in the action.
    – hoss
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 18:36
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    @hoss If it does not require editing, why would you put it in the queue for editing? This is what the second button does: the post will be shown to someone who will be asked to edit it. I think the correct action there is "Looks OK", which can be read as "Meh".
    – user3717023
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 19:33
  • @hoss - Pretend "Looks OK" is short for "Looks OK enough not to require intervention in the form of outside editing or flagging." If you can't bring yourself to say a low quality question "Looks OK" you can always skip it.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 19:38
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    @hoss If a question doesn't require editing but is low quality, to me that almost certainly means it should be closed, which means that you should click Unsalvageable -> Should Be Closed.
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 20:12
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    @durron597 There ought to be room for "should be downvoted but does not need to be closed" on the scale.
    – user3717023
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 23:18
  • @NormalHuman This is my thought exactly, many times I see someone with a "I'm new at this what should I do?" question. Sure we could just vote to close it, and i could easily pass it on to an editor (would have no idea how to properly edit the question), but just maybe someone with some time on their hands will help this 1 rep user out and show them the ropes. I don't want to put anything in the edit queue that does not belong and unsalvageable may just not be appropriate so I guess I might just comment, then skip or say it looks ok.
    – hoss
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 1:16
  • @NormalHuman: I posted a comment hours ago, but it got eaten. Looks OK is exactly that room, because the last such reviewer will get the chance to downvote. (Allowing every reviewer to downvote, or upvote, was the mistake initially made in FP/LA, and that's why there's now only one reviewer per post in those queues, which is messy as well.) Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 6:53
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    'Noob' questions don't necessarily deserve any different treatment than any other question that is clear and contains enough information to answer it. Remember, you're just sorting stuff in this queue. If you're really not sure, click skip. Otherwise, Looks Okay - if something really does need a down vote or closed as (very likely) a duplicate, that'll happen fast enough once it's been given full visibility. There's no way to edit "How do I add two numbers in Javascript?", and stopping what you're doing in triage to find 30 duplicates that might apply just breaks your workflow.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 12:22

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