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This specific proposal has been declined. There is a related (but separate) request


The current help text for the "Should be improved" help text in triage suggests using this option

for questions where edits by the author or others would result in a question that is clear and answerable

It is very easy to misinterpret this to use this for:

  • questions where the author is leaving out crucial details (like exceptions or code) but can edit them into the question (and don't exist as comments)
  • Questions that are currently worded very ambiguously, but would be easy to clarify if they add the crucial details.

As I understand Tim's answer on when to use Should Be Improved, it is really for questions that are mostly fine content-wise but could use a few touch ups.

Please change the help text to something like:

for questions that are mostly understandable but could use some editing to make them more clear and answerable.


For "Unsalvageable" the current help text reads:

for questions that cannot or should not be answered and must therefore be removed from the site

Again, Tim's answer suggests also using for questions that are close-worthy, not just the "should not be answered" garbage that I associate the current wording with. Since Tim mentions using "Unsalvageable" for questions that:

  • You don't even know where'd you begin to edit

  • Even with a Herculean effort, the question isn't going to be that good

  • It's probably easier if the OP just tries again

Maybe a better wording would be

for questions that cannot be answered or edited into an answerable form without a Herculean amount of effort or vital information from the author.

Open to other wording suggestions.

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    You may also wish to suggest a rewording of the Unsalvageable. Currently it reads "for questions that cannot or should not be answered and must therefore be removed from the site" -- the addition of "or can only be improved by the original author with necessary information." would help provide the distinction between the two review choices.
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 19:57
  • @MichaelT great suggestion. I incorporated your idea. Feel free to suggest any other wording changes.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 20:06
  • I believe that something like this was already proposed elsewhere, cant find it though.. Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 20:13
  • @JonasCz neither could I, at least on MSO. I don't think triage is active anywhere else on SE, but maybe it exists as a feature request on MSE?
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 20:15
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    I agree on the problem. The wording of the buttons is bad too in my opinion. Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 20:20
  • 1
    @ryanyuyu given that Triage and H&IQ are SO only, I doubt it would have been asked on MSE.
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 26, 2015 at 20:22
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    Maybe even examples for each would be great. I read unsalvagable as gibberish spam that can't even form a question. Maybe I'm wrong or too forgiving, but I even consider single sentence link questions like this question salvagable since it isn't closed yet. Of course, triage told me I was WRONG and kicked me out for 2 days. I am absolutely in favor or changing the help text.
    – zero298
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 0:06
  • Related: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/293463/1768232
    – durron597
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 12:54

1 Answer 1

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I don't think these changes would do what you want here.

for questions that are mostly understandable but could use some editing to make them more clear and answerable.

That applies to... almost everything. Probably including this feature-request. Rare indeed is the post that can't use a bit of editing. I don't think you're complaining that too few mostly-understandable questions are ending up triaged as "Should be Improved" right now.

for questions that cannot be answered or edited into an answerable form without a Herculean amount of effort or vital information from the author.

Too much hyperbole. We're not asking for Herculean effort here either; the normal sorts of effort described under How To Ask (search first, clear problem statement, code to reproduce) are fine. "Vital information" is indeed a serious problem if lacking, but expecting reviewers in Triage (who are often viewing the questions scant seconds after they've been asked) to identify this is naive, except in the most blatant cases. Oh... And plenty of awful questions can be answered, they just shouldn't be. Heck, I've seen folks answer obvious spam. Again, I suspect your complaint isn't that too many questions are going to Unsalvageable.

Tim's answer suggests also using for questions that are close-worthy

Tim didn't say anything about closing. Triage is not the close review queue - that's over here. Yes, you can opt to close unsalvageable questions, but the purpose of Triage isn't to close - or even identify - everything that must eventually be closed. The hint is in the name: triage is the first step in a long process, and exists merely to make later steps more efficient; it's ok - heck, it's expected - that some tasks won't take the route initially predicted.

I'm open to suggestions for improving the guidance here, but try to focus on guidance that'll help reviewers to divide the work up appropriately... not scare them into shoveling everything into the middle category.

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    May I suggest you take a gander over at my answer? I believe that the wording is currently scaring them into shoving everything into the middle category. "for questions that cannot or should not be answered and must therefore be removed from the site" is rather heavy handed given that the average reviewer appears to be in the 1.5k rep (+/- 750) range.
    – user289086
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 1:23
  • I wish you'd posted that answer as a separate question. I'm sorely tempted to post yet another answer here as a response to it, and that's gonna get messy in a hurry.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 2:19
  • I could pull it out and post it as another question if you'd rather it there... and now its over there.
    – user289086
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 2:19
  • Well... My comment response would be something like, "We have an admirably low error rate for Unsalvageable right now; erring the other direction stands to waste a lot more reviewer time." If you want a better response than that, it'll have to be an answer.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 2:32
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    The low error rate reviewed as unsalvageable is because of what is likely a high error rate for needs improvement. There are questions as described in your flow chart - off topic should be unsalvageable . These posts aren't making it to that review outcome. Questions that lack a specific problem are showing up as needs improvement. These are questions that the community cannot fix and shouldn't be sent to the H&IQ.
    – user289086
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 2:37
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    How about "Should Be Improved" -> "Good Question, Poorly Formatted"? This lines up with the capabilities that H&I provides, which are primarily centered around copy editing. "Should Be Improved" alone is a superset of what can be done in H&I, and sends a lot of things there that aren't handle-able in that queue. "Unsalvageable" could then stay "Unsalvageable", as it becomes clearer in contrast with "Good Question, Poorly Formatted". As it stands now, anecdotally, the majority of what I find in H&I is uneditable, and just needs to be closed (even moreso than ones that need thrown back to VLQ).
    – Jason C
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 4:54
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    As for the help text, "edits by the author" are simply not possible in H&I; it is confusing to me why that is a reason to push them to that queue. Questions requiring that type of clean up just need to be closed, and shouldn't be thrown to H&I.
    – Jason C
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 5:01
  • @Shog9 I did not know the statistics on "Unsalvageable". I don't know if this is related, but when I've started flagging more aggressively (by not giving authors the benefit of the doubt that they will edit/include more info) I've gotten more disputed flags. So should I keep flagging aggressively, or not?
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 12:42
  • @ryanyuyu disputed flags aren't anything to worry about. It means someone agreed with you, but the majority didn't. You could get something disputed by flagging as unclear and having it closed as off topic - debugging help. But the outcome of the closed question is what counts at the end of the day and you contributed to that (someone agreed with you).
    – user289086
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 15:57
  • I don't know what you mean by "aggressive", @ryanyuyu. Forget about the authors (statistically, they're a bad bet) - instead, focus on the question: if you think it is unlikely that it will be answerable and useful, then flag it.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 17:14
  • Just to be clear, @JasonC, I declined this proposal because I think it would make the situation worse. That doesn't mean I'm against proposals that might make it better; if you think you have one, post it. As a question, not a comment.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 17:15
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    @Shog9 I mean in the past, if I was on the fence on whether I could flag the question (say as "unclear" for example), I would either skip mark Should Be Improved. Lately, I've been much more stern and leaning toward just dropping the "unclear" flag. I think some of the confusion is for situations where I can't find a flag that I feel comfortable using, but the question should not be improved. As in it's Unsalvageable but I don't want to mis-flag it. I tend to skip those.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 18:17
  • Don't ever be reluctant to skip if you aren't sure, @ryanyuyu. Plenty to do, plenty to do it.
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 9, 2015 at 19:07
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    as far as I can see, your explanation for Should Be Improved tends to send to H&I queue too many questions that reviewers can't fix. That's not good
    – gnat
    Commented Apr 10, 2015 at 10:37
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    @Shog9 I want to point this (now declined) request to an existing one. Would it be best for me to mark it as a "duplicate"? Or just edit in a link at the top of the request to the (currently) active request?
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 10, 2015 at 13:31

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