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https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31813939/what-are-some-things-that-can-cause-mock-patch-to-fail?noredirect=1#comment51554820_31813939

My question is "what are some things that can cause mock.patch to fail?"

My question was not "what is causing my specific testcase to fail?"

I feel like the mod closed my question because he wanted to the question to be the second one, not the first one.

The answer to my actual question could be items like this:

  1. "You forgot to call super.tearDown in one of your TestCases"
  2. "You are mocking tasks.assign_agent, when you should be mocking accounts.tasks.assign_agent

I feel like these items would be useful for someone experiencing a similar issue. I feel like the mod closed it because he couldn't answer the question and then went into "The question must be wrong" mode, which begs the question, what questions are being missed because the mods are too zealous?

I could ask a very specific question, but that answer would only be useful for someone with that very specific problem.

I don't feel like there are TOO many answers to this question.

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  • 5
    From the title that's probably a too broad question. Sorry, I don't even read it now. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:27
  • 4
    What would the correct answer to your question look like? Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:31
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    I could ask a very specific question, but that answer would only be useful for someone with that very specific problem. - I think that's what the community wants, assuming that specific problem is something others would experience.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:32
  • The community is then excluding all the people who don't know what their specific problem is, until they figure it out first. How often do you Google because you don't know what the specific problem is?
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:38
  • @synic - You could probably go to chat if you need help narrowing it down.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:42
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    @synic You're quire right that the community isn't able to help people solve problems when they don't know what problem they have to solve. Allowing your question to remain open wouldn't change that either.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:44
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    @synic Googling "My python program doesn't work" doesn't yield very helpful results so.... pretty much never. I figure out the source of the problem and then see what solutions are out there. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:45
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    Why are you putting yourself on the outside (using "you" and "your" in the title) when you have 15k rep, 200-some-odd posts, and a nearly 6-year-old account? This is your website, too. If you think something should change, you're going to have a much easier time doing it as an active member than as an outsider.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:33
  • @JoshCaswell I don't feel like I'm actually a member of any community here. I was directed here by a mod, apparently just to get drummed out by other mods and not have an actual discussion about it. I obviously don't agree with how modding is done around here, but apparently asking about it just gets everyone else on your case. Like you said, I have been here for 6 years. This is not what it used to be like. SO used to care more about content than modding. Now you have to jump through so many hoops you might as well just go somewhere else.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 20:05
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    We care about modding... because we care about the content. And the fact that most of it is awful. And there are exactly two hoops to jump through: (1) Do some debugging and research so you can intelligently talk about your problem and (2) write down your problem in a clear, understandable way so that we can answer your question. I'm really not sure why people think thats such a high bar. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 20:13
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    "apparently asking about it just gets everyone else on your case" - you came here for discussion, right? You probably shouldn't have expected everyone to agree.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 22:08

2 Answers 2

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My question is "what are some things that can cause mock.patch to fail?"

That is unquestionably Too Broad, as the close reason states.

My question was not "what is causing my specific testcase to fail?"

However such a question wouldn't be Too Broad, and so would be appropriate for the site if you decided to go down that route.

I feel like the mod closed my question because he wanted to the question to be the second one, not the first one.

I expect he did. And he was entirely correct to do so, given that the second question is an appropriate SO question and the first isn't. The alternative is just having the question get deleted because you don't want to narrow its scope.

I feel like these items would be useful for someone experiencing a similar issue.

Seeing a gigantic list of all sorts of problems that are completely unrelated to whatever problem they have, with their actual problem buried in there somewhere, is way less useful than specific questions for each of the possible problems, allowing them to find the question specific to the exact problem that they're having, without needing to look through a bunch of content related to entirely different problems.

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  • Assuming the list is giant, but it won't be.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:30
  • 18
    @synic How do you know it won't be? And the list won't even be static. People would be able to find new issues over time that could cause some sort of problem with that method.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:32
  • Yeah, and those answers would also be useful.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:09
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    @synic If people could actually find the one that applied to them, which would be quite hard, and doesn't scale.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:10
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"List" questions were never a good fit for this site, as the answers would be disjoint at best.

That is why we discourage questions like yours, and encourage questions of the second format. The fact that there needs to be a question created for each problem encountered is actually great. Someone with that specific problem will have a far easier time searching it, and doesn't need to scroll through a bunch of non-related potential causes.

The mod made the right decision here, and I very much doubt it had anything to do with his ability (or lack thereof, though he is very knowledgeable about python) to answer.

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  • What you're describing "gains" you the ability to search for specific problems, but what you lose is the page where someone can land that doesn't know what their specific problem is, and therefore can't search for it.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:33
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    @synic That doesn't address the problem with the question still being too broad.
    – tnw
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:35
  • @synic If the programmer hasn't gone far enough in the debugger to determine any specifics, then they should really be doing just a bit more work before searching/asking on the internet anyways. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:35
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    @synic If they don't know what their specific problem is, how would seeing a list of a bunch of problems help, as they'd have no way of knowing which of those problems was their problem, since they don't even know what their problem is?
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:37
  • @tnw: Nope. That's only a problem because you make it one.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:38
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    @synic well, they've been "made" a problem because the historical experience of the community has been that these kinds of questions don't tend to work well (i.e. attract good, focused, quality answers).
    – Pekka
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:42
  • @synic So is your suggestion actually that we should allow broad questions with no definitive answer or definable scope?
    – tnw
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 17:45
  • @tnw: my suggestion is that you should allow useful questions. If your rules are making hurdles for useful questions, then maybe they should be changed.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:09
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    @synic and we're telling you that we disagree that yours was a useful question and therefore do not believe that this requires a change in the rules.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:15
  • @synic Straw man argument. The rule about broad questions is obviously not made to intentionally bar useful questions from being asked. You won't get many people to take your argument seriously if you just try to demonize the community is being intentionally malicious. The rule is there to avoid overly-broad questions with no definitive answer being asked. Additionally, as jon mentioned, the assertion is that questions which are too broad are NOT useful.
    – tnw
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:15
  • @synic Define useful in a constructive way please. Opinion based or too broad questions aren't attracting good answers, as already mentioned. We don't want open ended discussions on questions here. That simple! Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 18:53
  • @πάνταῥεῖ Useful as in other programmers would find the answer useful. "We" is who? The mod community? I know I'm not the only one that feels that the modding has gotten seriously out of control, to the point that most of my coworkers would rather ask their questions somewhere else. "We" includes all the users too, but they don't get a voice about it.
    – synic
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 20:07
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    @synic That definition is far too broad. Many programmers would also find the answer to "What IDE should I use" to be useful as well, but that is also not allowed here (and for good reason). The fact that people that can't be bothered to debug their own code, or so some research before asking, feel like they shouldn't ask here, isn't really a problem in my book. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 20:10
  • @synic Useful oftenly turns out being useful for the OP in their particular situation, but not from the long term view. Put your glasses on please! Every krethi and plethi believe their question should be useful for someone else, sharing their misconceptions. Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 20:12
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    @synic what "mod community"? None of the people you're interacting with here on Meta are moderators. "[all users] don't get a voice about it" - please allow me to prove you wrong. Like that.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Aug 4, 2015 at 22:05

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