4

Notes:
I have no issue at all with the reviewers, or Rizier123.
I'm not griping, just trying to ascertain what happened, and if there could be a potential issue, or possible improvements.


My suggested edit:

https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/7659765

Basic Edit Review Summary:

Suggested 14:09
Rejected 14:24

Community♦ reviewed 14:24: Reject
This edit conflicted with a subsequent edit.

Baum mit Augen reviewed 14:23: Approve
Markus W Mahlberg reviewed 14:09: Approve

My edit must have been rejected by Community user because Rizier123 (with greater than 2k rep) made an edit at 14:24.

However, given that two other users had approved and no other rejections, Rizier123 must have clicked "reject and edit"? Or clicked "improve" and unticked "This was helpful"?

Or, perhaps this was used:
I can edit a post even if another edit is pending (waiting for review) - is this a bug?

(I found this by searching my rejection reason, not for Rizier123 stuff, coincidence they posted that relevant question)

Does this "trick" in the above linked question actually bypass something? i.e. Allows a user with 2k rep or greater to just apply their edit, and Community user sees an edit is made and so deems mine obsolete?

Or, is this a script which would be invoked just the same as clicking an option in the review queue?
i.e. does it do the same as clicking Review queue "reject and edit"?

From the above linked question:

Recently I noticed, that there is a way to edit a question even if another edit is pending and still waiting to be reviewed

If this is true, and even if it's just invoking an option as per from the review queue, it's still bypassing the review.
This is not ideal, because then the current pending edit is not being reviewed, and users with 2k rep or greater can just bookmark this link and merrily do their own edits discarding other users work and effort to improve questions.


Maybe the scripts should be updated so if there is a pending edit and a user is on edit page themselves (ie using the above "trick") but there's been no presence on Review page for that edit review, then user should be blocked from being able to make their own edit.

i.e. force the flow of:
Review page -> Decision based on review page.

Granted, a user could just quickly go to the review page, not even look at the suggested edit, and click "reject and edit", but then why would users with 2K rep or more do this?
There is no rep gain, and it takes them time to do.


I'd also wonder why my edit was rejected at all, given that Rizier123's edit was approved and was the same as mine with only a few additional changes.

i.e. why was mine not approved and in the Revision History, then Rizier123's edit in the Revision History above mine? (like with "Improve")


I don't know that much about the review system on Stack, not having enough rep to have used it. So am asking for info/feedback on the above points I've made.

4
  • 3
    Once a user has 2,000 reputation, the edits take effect immedately. While your edit was waiting to be approved, the user made an edit that was immediately applied, so your edit was rejected.
    – mmking
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:11
  • 1
    This usually happens when multiple users start edits around the same time. It's not that your edit was rejected or not up to standards, it's just that another edit occurred before yours could be either approved or rejected. If you find this frustrating, try to avoid editing brand new questions when there are lots of eyes on it.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:30
  • @mmking "While your edit was waiting to be approved, the user made an edit" How did they do that? That's kinda what I'm asking. The "edit(1)" link is greyed out when there's a pending edit, so would their edit have to have been through the review queue?
    – James
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:52
  • @James Well, you saw in the post that you mentioned that it is possible to edit a post, even if the button is greyed out. Or, you both started editing at the same time and you submitted your edit first, while the user was still editing. Either way, the system doesn't seem to check for pending reviews when you press Save Edits.
    – mmking
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:54

1 Answer 1

6

Basically the timeline was:

  1. You started editing.
  2. Rizier123 started editing
  3. You committed your suggested edit
  4. Baum mit Augen & Markus W Mahlberg reviewed your edit
  5. Rizier123 finished his edit.

Note: 2 could actually occur at any point before step 5 in this scenario depending on how the user accessed the edit page

Because Rizier123 has >2Krep, his edit was committed immediately. Because that happened before your post was completely reviewed, that is the reason your post was rejected. There is no exceptions to this at all. 2K user edits always override suggested edits.

This means that once step 5 completed, everything else that happened was rendered null and void. Your unapproved suggested was immediately rejected by Community.

This is going to be the case if they tried to edit legitmately or they got to the edit page as a result of hacking the URL or clicking the edit link from the review page.

This is all be design. No one can edit the post from the question page once you commit your suggested edit until the edit is completely reviewed, but the edit page is accessible via other means. It also means that if you finish your edit first, your edit may be automatically rejected if they finished after you (assuming they have 2K rep). If the 2nd editor did not have 2K rep, they would have not been allowed to save the edit and would have received an error explaining why.

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  • "Suggested 14:09 - Rejected 14:24" I don't believe Rizier123's edit took them 16 mins
    – James
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:45
  • 4
    @James Rizier may have stopped for a snack or to run to the head.... but that's what happen. No one can edit a post if there is a pending suggested edit. If you try, you are immediately taken to the review page. And if that happened, Rizier would be credited in the review. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:48
  • Ok. But what about the magic link they found? They stated that bypasses the review page. I cannot test it as I'm <2k on SO
    – James
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:49
  • @James ok, maybe they hacked the URL to get to the edit page (either intentionally or by accident). If so, then your question is a dup of that question. Simple fact. 2K user commits an edit, any pending edits are rejected, no exceptions. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:53
  • How is my question a dupe? They're asking about the hack and how it works, I'm asking about why my suggested edit was rejected, and how an edit overruled it. They're completely different. And the point is, if they used the "hack" then it's not by accident, they have a question about it from 2 months ago. I have no issue with Rizier, I have a "potential" issue with the hack, depending on how/why my edit was rejected. Hence my question
    – James
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:56
  • @James and I explained why, although my initial revision did not take into account the URL hacking. Effectively an edit by a 2K user will always overrule any suggested edit. there are zero exceptions. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:57
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    @psubsee2003: you can go to the post revision history and edit the last revision there. Submitting then would auto-reject any pending suggested edit as well. This is an alternative scenario to what you described here; it could have happened after the suggested edit was submitted. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 19:58
  • @psubsee2003 and as per my question here, if that is the case and you are correct, then the URL hack needs to be addressed, as people bypassing the review page when there's already a pending edit is not fair. It's an unofficial privilege which not all people get (unless they see the Meta question about the hack) and it stops people bothering to review. My edit was perfectly fine, and even if someone was adding extra, only needed an "approve and edit". Personal choice of course, but in this particular scenario, mine was almost exactly the same barring the additional the other user added.
    – James
    Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:02
  • @MartijnPieters true, and that would be similar to hacking the URL. But I will expand my answer to explain Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:02
  • 1
    @James the system is designed to trust edits from 2K users. It does not track when edits start, so it only know when someone clicks "save edit". I think the simplest solution is accept that 2K users always override your edits. I highly doubt a feature request to prevent editing by 2K users when a suggested edit is present will be accepted by the community and/or will be easily implemented. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:21
  • 1
    @James then how do you deal with the case when a 2K user started editing before you and finsihed after you. Happens enough in my experience. Frankly, the goal is to improve posts, not get +2 rep. So if the 2K edit was as good or better, then there is no issue. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:28
  • 2
    @James: I am not saying I agreed with the override and it is still possible this was an ordinary edit conflict (bad luck). I'm just trying to make you aware of all the aspects. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:46
  • 1
    @James last thing I am going to say in this matter (unless someone poses an incredibly good point as a response).... the system sucks as resolving edit conflicts. Period. End of Sentence. There is literally no good way to handle conflicts between 2 different users. If both users have <2K rep, it simply picks the one that is first. If both users have >2K, it picks the one that edited more (yes, you heard that right, the system thinks more changes is a better edit). So when the system is trying to pick between a 2K user and a <2K user, it picks the 2K user. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:46
  • 1
    @jamees (cont...) If you can come up with a system to always pick the better edit, I am sure people will listen. Commented Apr 12, 2015 at 20:47
  • 1
    @psubsee2003: To be fair, while picking the edit with more changes may not ensure the better edit, it does generally mean that, in the case where the rejected edit is still worth making, there is less work to merge it in by hand :)
    – psmears
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 10:37

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