133

An answer that consists solely of a code block or "Try this" (and variations) followed by a code block and nothing else is usually not useful if not very low quality. So let's encourage people to fix them before posting them.

Here's the suggestion: If an answer consists solely of a code block, or just one line of text above a code block where the text has fewer than, say, five words, prevent submission with a message along the lines of:

Code blocks on their own are not usually useful answers, and are more likely to attract downvotes. Please explain what the solution you're showing does, and why/how that code answers the question.

On the rare occasions where five words are all you need (they exist), well, people will pad out as necessary. Or we could get into the regex game looking for "try this" and "please try this" and "see this" and "see below" and "this should do it" and... (Blech. Hence the word count, but the mechanism is a design detail; the point is the concept.)

Will people work around it? Sure, the same way they work around the new +1/-1 ban, the old @op removal, etc. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't nudge people the right way.


Related: Is there any benefit to allowing code-only answers while blocking code-only questions? (thank you BoltClock)

37
  • 6
    @simonzack: Can't speak for other tags, but I see this all the time in the javascript, java, and html tags. Perfectly reasonable question, answer consisting of nothing but a code dump. Sometimes the code dump is correct, often it's not, but even when correct it's giving a man a fish rather than teaching him to fish. The why is usually just as important as the code. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 14:38
  • 3
    @simonzack "Usually this is in response to poorly researched or phrased questions" - so, the question being bad magically makes the bad answer better or more useful? IMO it's even worse; OP not doing their research is by no means a justification for a sloppy or outright bad answer, as that just increases the amount of bad content on SO and possibly motivates OP to ask more bad questions. See e.g. my comments on stackoverflow.com/a/25971173/1110381 (which is a special case as it's deliberately bad code, but the point still holds for other "lazy" answers).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 14:49
  • 1
    @Xan: What Scimonster said. :-) I usually open those with a preface giving the general answer, and then "see the comments below for details." Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:09
  • 1
    @simonzack that wasn't my main point anyways. Fact is, posting bad content in reply to bad content just increases the amount of crap floating around on SO.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:12
  • 2
    @thegrinner: As far as I can tell, if you don't stop the post, people don't read the warning. This is along the lines of people posting jsFiddle links without code, etc.; tell them what's wrong so they can fix it before posting. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:35
  • 1
    @thegrinner There isn't really anything much for reviewers in the LQP to do about such an answer besides mark it as "no action needed". The answer doesn't merit deletion.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:44
  • 1
    @thegrinner: Nothing we can do about people adding noise to get around the warning, just like we can't prevent people from putting the fiddle link in backticks to get rid of that warning. :-) The problem with the VLQ queue (if these even end up there) is that it's too late: The VLQ answer is already there. Why I'm trying to do is get people to up the Q before posting. If they decide not to and blatantly work around it, well, that highlights the problem with the answer, making it more likely it'll get VLQ'd. :-) Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:45
  • 3
    @thegrinner They can't be editing an explanation into the post; that's realistically only something the author can do. They could comment if they wanted, but they'd still need to mark it as "no action needed" because it doesn't meet any of the criteria for action in the LQP queue. The correct course of action from that queue is to mark as no action needed. They obviously shouldn't be skipping a post that they know should not be acted on from that queue. That queue simply isn't there to handle posts like these.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:54
  • 1
    @Servy Now that I actually think it through you're right, code-only answers aren't properly served in review now. Yuck :(
    – thegrinner
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 15:58
  • 5
  • 1
    The word TRY alone should trigger a warning message before posting... In my experience, i's a good indicator that the answer is incorrect and wasn't tested at all. Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 9:23
  • 6
    The way to control Answer quality is through voting, not through arbitrary flags and disputed rules. This is what voting is for and the core premise of this site and the whole StackExchange network. This is also the best way to resolve differences over what constitutes good answers: we vote on the answers. Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 17:49
  • 3
    @T.J.Crowder Deleted my answer due to someone trolling it. Don't like the idea of preventing code-only answers as sometimes they are sufficient for the question, however a "are you sure you want to do this?" confirmation box might be better. Ultimately it's up to the OP to decide if the answer is helpful to them. But that's just my opinion. Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 15:59
  • 2
    Some examples of answers that were accepted, that would be unable to be published (some depending upon how far you take it). stackoverflow.com/a/25870817/2117156, stackoverflow.com/a/9180054/2117156, stackoverflow.com/a/9900500/2117156, stackoverflow.com/a/12411735/2117156, stackoverflow.com/a/13500711/2117156, stackoverflow.com/a/13886868/2117156. For irony sake I used the answers by someone who's positively for this idea ;) Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 16:50
  • 2
    @T.J.Crowder I don't see a problem with them myself. The OP accepted them, they can't have been that bad? Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 17:05

6 Answers 6

46

Sometimes concise and straight forward questions have concise and straight forward answers. I don't see why that's a problem and it shouldn't be required to fluff up an answer with useless text that obscures the interesting parts.

When the question is "How do I do X", a code snippet showing how to do X seems to be a good answer. If that code snippet is self explanatory it might be a perfectly fine answer without lots additional text.

Random examples:

7
  • 2
    Commentary on this answer has been moved to chat.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 0:19
  • 6
    The third answer you mentioned is terrible. It's a perfect example for precisely why disallowing that crap should be enforced. Not even the slightest elaboration of what string is. Furthermore, even the merest explanation of why === was chosen could have provided significant value.
    – Kirk Woll
    Commented Jan 29, 2015 at 1:56
  • 5
    @KirkWoll it seems like a lot of people who looked at that answer thought it was helpful.
    – jwg
    Commented Jan 29, 2015 at 8:43
  • 2
    @KirkWoll: It depends if you think the answer should target a complete programming newbie. Do you have to elaborate what comparison operators do? Do you have to explain that the variable named "string" would contain the string that the question talks about, or is that common sense? If people are unsure what === does they can ask another question (or in this case look at existing questions about that topic). Creating a complete programming tutorial in every answer is not a good idea, questions should rather be handled one at a time as far as possible.
    – sth
    Commented Jan 29, 2015 at 15:12
  • 1
    @jwg, an upvoted answer does not mean the answer was written very well. It is five years old and bound to accrue upvotes by those who managed to divine usefulness from the answer. That doesn't mean the answer was nearly as good as it could have been.
    – Kirk Woll
    Commented Jan 30, 2015 at 0:07
  • 1
    @sth, it's a gray area, and certainly one doesn't need to always teach the OP the basics of a language. But that being said, I think a little prose with a little code is always advisable.
    – Kirk Woll
    Commented Jan 30, 2015 at 0:08
  • 3
    @KirkWoll: No, a five year old answer isn't bound to accrue upvotes at all, and certainly not 100 of them. The vast majority of old answers has far less upvotes, if any. That doesn't support your claim at all that the answer is so terrible.
    – sth
    Commented Jan 30, 2015 at 4:08
42

I like the idea of a warning message, but I suggest not to prevent the submission completely. Just encourage the user to improve his answer by showing an informatory popup:

Code blocks on their own are not usually useful answers, and are more likely to attract downvotes. Please explain what the solution you're showing does, and why/how that code answers the question.
Continue editingSubmit nonetheless

10
  • 3
    I understand the motivation, but the problem is that People Don't Read. Give them a "post anyway" and that's what they'll do, completely bypassing the text trying to be useful. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 17:56
  • 5
    @T.J.Crowder: Maybe make it reputation-dependent? Allow only users with the edit privilege (2k) to post despite the warning.
    – Bergi
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 17:59
  • 8
    I could see that: <2k and you get the message and can't post without explaining. Above that, you get the warning. If so, I'd want the message to have a really big bright CONTINUE EDITING button and a very small, textual "Or post your answer anyway" link. ;-) Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 18:02
  • 10
    Warning messages are much better IMO, it is the path of least annoyance for people who do know what they are doing. You can also collect stats on how many people were warned and then later closed as LQ, if there is heavy correlation then turn to a more blocking process when we have the evidence
    – undefined
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:27
  • 1
    @LukeMcGregor: As long as it's actually blocking for users with less experience. Again: People Don't Read. I resisted learning that lesson for years when my friend asserted it to me as a UX policy. Years. Eventually, I just couldn't ignore the evidence any more. :-) Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 9:27
  • 1
    this approach can be further enhanced by adding an (increasing) posting delay for users who tend to pick "Submit nonetheless" way too often (similar to delay cast on reviewer after failing an audit). Kind of soft power
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 9:35
  • 3
    @T.J.Crowder "and are more likely to attract downvotes" if true then it's in their own interest to heed the advice. If they don't read then the downvotes will flow. If that part of the message is not true however, and they do get upvotes for their answer, then there is a difference between what the community's perception of what they believe is a good answer versus what you believe is a good answer. So the former case is a good outcome, and in the latter case it's not a good solution IMO to robot enforce against something the community values.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 23:26
  • 1
    @AaronLS the problem that I've seen is that no one downvotes these answers. And my LQ flags on these answers get denied so they go on living anyways. I've stopped flagging or even commenting because the only thing it ever brings is "it doesnt need explanation" in the comments afterwards. I downvote when I see one but that doesn't accomplish anything either. I wish there was a flag for "needs explanation" then a user (or a few) could come along and gently shove the user into providing an explanation or close / delete if there are much better answers on the question
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 14:25
  • @humble.rumble No one downvotes? YOU should downvote. That'll immediate push it down to the bottom to live with the net negative vote answers. Problem solved.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jun 3, 2015 at 14:43
  • 1
    @AaronLS I downvote, the problem is that others don't, I often see them getting upvoted because of the code contained within and not the presentation of the answer.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 3, 2015 at 14:47
22

Ok, let's test this. Here's a quick'n'dirty regex that'll match a lot of these answers:

(?s)^.{0,30}\s*((^|\n)\s{4,}\S[^\n]*(?=\n|$))+((\n\s*(?=\n))+(\n\s{4,}\S[^\n]*(?=\n|$))+)?\s*.{0,30}$

As of right now, this'll produce a warning:

How about explaining that code?

Code blocks on their own are not very informative. Please explain what the code you're showing does, why you chose to write it that way, and how you expect it to work.

...which doesn't exactly accomplish a whole lot for answers, since you have to tab off the answer field to see the warning. But since I don't really trust my regex skills (almost certainly the wrong tool for the job here) and caught a bit of flack the last time I implemented a straight-up block without gathering data first, I'm gonna let this run for a few weeks & then come back with some information on the sort of answers this is would block (so we can maybe get away from the whole "my code is self-documenting" concern).

Caveats:

  • Applies to questions too. There are better checks already running for questions, but this does kick in on the occasional question that slipped through the cracks there. I've tweaked the guidance shown to be reasonably appropriate for both cases.

  • Not exactly robust. I'm no regex wizard & this is kind of a stupid way to run this check anyway.

  • Only requires a trivial amount of non-code text. 30 characters. They can even be mostly-spaces. Ridiculously easy to work around if that's the plan.

Bug me in two weeks if I haven't posted results. Bug me sooner if something breaks horribly.

15
  • 1
    I know recently the comments thing went a little awry, but you are allowed to have one mishap in a sea of pinpoint accuracy :) I hope you don't let that experience cause you to shy away from the bold decisions you usually make because far more often than not they are the right ones.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 19:12
  • Not kidding about the regex thing - I'm not at all convinced this is the proper approach here.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 19:18
  • Well I know the markdown editor contains html, but I am not aware of what you actually store in the db or have access to server side. Obviously if you regex the html tony the pony will eat your soul and perhaps a parser could come in handy. The regex seems normalish to me, and regex101 didn't come up with any immediate issues with some of the tests I used. It seems the check comes onchange in the textarea (which only happens onblur) and when I first tested this, I clicked post after I hastily wrote a small answer, and never saw the warning...
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 19:49
  • ...Perhaps it could be tested either on the draft save event, or some other client side trigger which happens before the user clicks out since their click is probably going to be the post answer button. Also, if it were somehow possible to produce the warning client side (since it isn't affecting validation anyway), perhaps that would be a little easier.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 19:50
  • Yeah, that's the big one - this can't really stay a warning with the current warning UI; as with comments, no one is going to see it. Unless they accidentally click away while writing, which isn't a great time to warn anyway. A block would work, or some sort of click-through UI (which would also be really useful for questions) - but first let's get an idea of how many posts this would affect and see how the false-positives fall out.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 20:00
  • 1
    So I just got hit by this and wanted to give some additional feedback. Well, not hit per se, so much as it happened while I was writing an answer just at the beginning (I always place explanations but often I code first). As I was typing the code, I had to scroll the preview, and that was when the warning showed. I know I mentioned that the onchange event was perhaps not best for this event check, and now I think it may be best if you could trigger it on mouse enter for the add answer button. Often users will hover there for a second with their mouse before clicking.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 23:27
  • 1
    If the current warning system is gathering statistics, I wonder what it thought of my previous encounter. I probably hit the warning 4 times while writing this answer: stackoverflow.com/a/28181924/1026459 . Food for thought :)
    – Travis J
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 23:29
  • 2
    Thanks for putting that out there! Unfortunately, though, I think few if any of the "try this" answerers will see it, as it doesn't show when you dump code in and then click "Post Answer". (You have to leave the text area some other way.) Are the stats collected even if the warning is never shown to the user? Commented Jan 31, 2015 at 11:12
  • For instance, was this counted? Commented Jan 31, 2015 at 11:33
  • Or this one? (Has since been edited, but literally started out "Try this wall of code") Commented Feb 1, 2015 at 16:43
  • The first one was counted, @T.J.Crowder; the second one had enough non-code text to pass.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 2, 2015 at 17:42
  • @Shog9: Thanks. That's interesting, the second one literally was "Try this" + code initially (modulo invisible spaces or such). Commented Feb 2, 2015 at 17:50
  • Yeah, no idea why that didn't get caught then; possible the code wasn't formatted either I suppose.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 2, 2015 at 18:35
  • "Bug me in two weeks if I haven't posted results", how was it?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 20, 2016 at 15:37
  • I got....busy...and forgot to follow up. Then today I went searching for what I remembered was a "why is 'try this' not a good answer?" post, and ran across my own feature request. Age, has to be age. Anyway, how did ths go? Commented Apr 8, 2017 at 17:42
12
function amiright(){
    // first, define the variable in the function body:
    var response = {};

    // then use it in the callback:
    ajax.call(function(){
        response.answer = 'nope';
    });

    // now you can return the object and your ajax
    // callback will update the property when it's finished.
    return response;
}

I don't like one-size-fits-all rules. Either the answer is good or not, and people will vote accordingly (as, by definition, the "goodness" of the answer is measured by voting).

If we want to display a popup to help guide people who actually care, but don't know how, to post better-than-average content, then show a popup. Even better if it helps people feel more justified in downvoting.

But there are plenty of scenarios where answers may contain nothing more than code-formatted text (which isn't the same as "code-only", but we have no way of telling the difference). I've written answers where the meat of the answer was in comments. Any text around the code block was really superfluous and unnecessary. Requiring that wouldn't make any sense, and would only act as a barrier to people who want to post potentially good content. Seeing as participants are spending a bunch of their valuable time, for which they receive no compensation, I don't see why we need to add another hurdle for them to get over.

Don't block answers just because the formatting rubs you the wrong way.


Blah blah blah hate this stupid requirement.

function amiright(){
    // first, define the variable in the function body:
    var response = {};

    // then use it in the callback:
    ajax.call(function(){
        response.answer = 'nope';
    });

    // now you can return the object and your ajax
    // callback will update the property when it's finished.
    return response;
}

(see requirement-getting-around in action: Typeahead.js v0.10.1 and Bootstrap 3)

3
  • The fact that some people will try to subvert a quality check without actually improving the quality of the post doesn't mean it's not worth having a quality check. Think of all of the posts that would otherwise be nothing but a JSFiddle link that instead have code in the post. And including the relevant code from the fiddle in that example would most certainly improve the quality of that post. It's not obviously apparent to every single reader that the author couldn't be bothered to have their question meet minimal quality standards.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 18:46
  • 6
    @Servy - For a question, I'm a bit more ready to accept mandatory quality rules, as they have no value in and of themselves. But for an answer, I'm definitely opposed to rules that basically boil down to "no, you should format your response this way." Let the votes determine whether or not the answer meets the necessary quality standards.
    – JDB
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 19:23
  • I'm glad I'm not the only one to speak up about comments! Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 23:55
0

I can see that there are cases where a code only answer would be sufficient, even though it may be better with some explanation.

It might be better to gauge it based on a ratio of code to text.

So for example, if the answer consists of 2-3 lines of code or it contains more than 10 words of supporting text the check could be bypassed. Thus covering the most simple answers.

However, say there are 10+ lines of code with "Try this:" the ratio of code to text would cause a warning to be displayed. This ratio could be tweaked as required, but here's a very basic implementation:

(Run snippet full page)

function verifyPost() {
  // line from: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2299604/javascript-convert-textarea-into-an-array
  var arrayOfLines = $('#postText').val().split('\n');
  var linesOfCode = 0;
  var noOfWords = 0;
  var result;

  for (var i = 0; i < arrayOfLines.length; i++) {
    if (arrayOfLines[i].length !== 0) {
      if (arrayOfLines[i].substring(0, 4) === '    ') {
        linesOfCode++;
      } else {
        // word counter http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6543917/count-number-of-word-from-given-string-using-javascript
        noOfWords = noOfWords + arrayOfLines[i].trim().split(/\s+/).length;
      }

    }
  }
  
  result = 'Post lines: ' + arrayOfLines + '<br />';
  result = result + 'Lines of code: ' + linesOfCode + '<br />';
  result = result + 'No. of words: ' + noOfWords + '<br />';
  
  if (noOfWords < 10 && linesOfCode > 2) {
    result = result + 'Ratio (words / lines of code): ' + noOfWords / linesOfCode + '<br />';
    
    if (noOfWords / linesOfCode <= 0.5) {
      $('#warningBox').show();
    }
  }
  
  document.getElementById("results").innerHTML = result;

  return false;
};
#postText {
  width: 100%;
  height: 200px;
}
<script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/2.1.1/jquery.min.js"></script>
<link href="http://cdn.sstatic.net/stackoverflow/all.css" rel="stylesheet" />
<br />
<ul>
  <li>Add an answer below</li>
  <li>Code to text ratio will be calculated</li>
  <li>Code must be indented with 4 spaces</li>
  <li>Ratio of 0.5 (words / code lines) must be achieved.</li>
  <li>More than 10 words bypasses check</li>
  <li>Less than 3 lines of code bypasses check</li>
</ul>
<textarea id="postText"></textarea>
<input type="button" onclick="verifyPost()" value="Verify" />

<div id="warningBox" class="message message-error message-dismissable" style="max-width: 270px; min-width: 270px; position: absolute; top: 130px; left: 290px; display: hidden;">
  <div class="message-inner message-tip message-tip-left-top">
    <div title="close this message (or hit Esc)" class="message-close">×</div>
    <div class="message-text" style="padding-right: 35px;">Please add more text to explain the posted code.</div>
  </div>
</div>

<div id="results" style="font-weight: bold;"></div>

3
  • 2
    This is how the code check for questions works. It does somewhat fall apart when both the explanation and the code is very short, however. "My error one liner" and "try this: inexplicable method change" are both pretty crappy.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 18:32
  • @Shog9 For the very short questions, does it still perform a check then? Or would it auto feed in to the low quality review queue instead? One assumption would be that the short answers would be quick answers to brief questions that might warrant such a short response but would auto feed in to low quality queue.
    – Tanner
    Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 8:56
  • 1
    It's based on the number of lines of code. Current ratio is 4 characters explanation required for every line of code.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 28, 2015 at 19:46
-6

How about non-English speakers?

I can understand the problems/issues very well and give the proper answer with a sample fiddle, but it's difficult for me give a full explanation about what I did in order to fix/correct the problem. What can I do in this case?

16
  • 10
    SO is a site for English speaking people. It is not designed to be usable to people that cannot speak any English.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:23
  • 9
    You are asking a question on an english site, I dont think not knowing english well is an excuse for a code only question/answer. My advice is to try your best to explain your work in english, and perhaps get someone else to give it a proof read. Any minor issues should get fixed by community moderation.
    – undefined
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:23
  • @LukeMcGregor answering not asking. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:27
  • 1
    I agree @Servy, but my answers still helps a lot of people, even if my explanations are not so well, example: stackoverflow.com/questions/16527054/…
    – Hackerman
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:27
  • 4
    @RobertRozas And that's not a code only answer. It contains text that explains the code. If it didn't contain any of that text, the answer would be far less useful.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:29
  • @MartinSmith i think it applies both ways? in any case I dont think the reason for not explaining why should be a language issue given its an english site, which was my point.
    – undefined
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:29
  • 1
    @Servy i know...what i means is that my answer maybe could be explained a lot better...i'm just afraid that some day this kind of answer enter in the "low quality answer" section...
    – Hackerman
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:31
  • 1
    this category of answerers could benefit quite a lot from being pushed to write something... anything in attempt at explanation. This way, my colleague in one of past projects progressed from awful to perfectly understandable written English in just a few months. He had no other option but write explanations because he was the only one in the team with his kind of technical expertise, and communication on it was too intensive for someone else to translate for him. Along the way, nobody complained about his English for the same reason - they had no other option
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:39
  • @gnat, thanks for your comment, it seems that i have to improve my english a little bit more, in order to provide better answers..
    – Hackerman
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:49
  • one thing to keep in mind is, if you provide really valuable content (like that colleague of mine did), nobody will complain, and lots of other users will be around to edit it into a better shape. If you keep practicing in writing, skill will eventually come along
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 20:52
  • @RobertRozas: That answer isn't "code only" at all, even your first version had a useful explanation. You made the effort. The goal is to get others to as well. If the English isn't great, no worries, lots of native speakers around the site who can edit to help out. Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 9:30
  • 2
    I wouldn't worry about it Robert. Your English is just as good, if not better than a lot of the population of England, who wouldn't know what good grammar and punctuation was even if it smacked them round the face with a wet fish. I'm pretty sure one of my half-siblings doesn't know that comma's and full stops exist o_O. Thankfully Stack Exchange doesn't see too many of these people I speak of. Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 9:59
  • @JamieBarker: McKean's law strike's again! ;-) (sic) (hopefully this comes across as amusing, not mean) Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 13:00
  • 1
    That's why I'm a Web Developer and not an English Teacher ;). @T.J.Crowder Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 13:10
  • 4
    Thanks for your cheerfull comments guys, as an autodidact english apprentice, now i'm feeling very motivated...greetings from Chile :)
    – Hackerman
    Commented Jan 27, 2015 at 13:18

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